The continuing saga of Dave Champion

[Nikki]

Au contraire Artificial reef building. There are probably lots of little fishies happily swimming around years of our nation's secrets.

[Demosthenes]

Metal poisons coral. It's why the various equipment in a tropical fish tank is either glass, plastic, or coated with plastic.

[Nikki]

I have been told that at one time it was the policy of the CIA to run software to wipe clean old hard drives, then dismantle the drives and shred the metal disks, then burn (or melt) the shredded pieces of the hard drive, and then drop the ashes/slag into the ocean in a concrete container.

(1) sealed in concrete

(2) why are there so many corals growing on sunken ships?

[ASITStands]

In The Dave Champion Show, September 13, 2008, Dave gives a complete dramatization of the recent contempt hearing. Entertaining at best, and informative, as to his mens rea.

He retained Peter Gibbons who sought immunity under Kastigar. When the judge indicated Dave had slept on his Fifth Amendment rights, Champion chose a contempt hearing.

He was placed in custody for a period of time while Gibbons purged the contempt by producing documents, which the government charged were only one tenth of their request. Dave reappeared in chains for testimony, and an order was issued to produce the computer.

Dave calls it "A Tale of Tyranny in America." It's well worth a listen.

[buck09]

Even if a drive is erased according to DoD standards, there's enough residual magnetism left to permit some data recovery.

This is actually a very common security myth. Given the density of today's hard drives, magnetic residual recovery has never proven able to recover more than a scatter shot of data, if any at all.

If using the correct parameters, a single pass of random bits is all that's needed.

[Arthur Rubin]

Even if a drive is erased according to DoD standards, there's enough residual magnetism left to permit some data recovery.

This is actually a very common security myth. Given the density of today's hard drives, magnetic residual recovery has never proven able to recover more than a scatter shot of data, if any at all.

If using the correct parameters, a single pass of random bits is all that's needed.

We shall see, perhaps. I have doubts that the track alignment is perfect enough that you can't get information from residual magnetism between the tracks, as the overwriting is intended to be low enough not to effect the next track over.

But I'm not a data recovery expert.

[Nikki]

Even if a drive is erased according to DoD standards, there's enough residual magnetism left to permit some data recovery.

This is actually a very common security myth. Given the density of today's hard drives, magnetic residual recovery has never proven able to recover more than a scatter shot of data, if any at all.

If using the correct parameters, a single pass of random bits is all that's needed.

There are at least three 3-letter agencies who disagree with you.

[Tax Man]

just throw the hard drives in waters full of frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads....

[SteveSy]

Even if a drive is erased according to DoD standards, there's enough residual magnetism left to permit some data recovery.

This is actually a very common security myth. Given the density of today's hard drives, magnetic residual recovery has never proven able to recover more than a scatter shot of data, if any at all.

If using the correct parameters, a single pass of random bits is all that's needed.

I'm sure the government has some super method of recovering data but the IRS does not have access to this method especially for some trivial case like Dave Champion. If it were concerning the location of weapons grade plutonium it might be a different story. A single pass like you said would make it useless to them. They might goes as far as using an undelete program but using something that measures the intensity of magnetized sections of the disk to recover lost data isn't going to happen. He'll probably just give them a computer that was never used for his contacts and avoid the evidence of a wipe program.

To support Buck's claim
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistp ... 8_rev1.pdf
p.8

Studies have shown that most of today’s media can be effectively cleared by one overwrite.

[Demosthenes]

How do you know what the IRS CI's computer capabilities are, Stevie?

[SteveSy]

How do you know what the IRS CI's computer capabilities are, Stevie?

I don't...just a good guess. I would assume that if NIST says data can be effectively cleared in one pass then I think its a safe bet to assume the IRS doesn't have access to something that would prove that wrong. They can't even catch ctc returns in process lol. Even if the IRS had this technology which I think its obvious they don't, why would they waste hundreds and hundreds of hours getting to a Dave's contact list?

[Demosthenes]

Perhaps the point is to make Dave cough up the list (and nail him for criminal contempt when he doesn't) rather than obtaining the list by any means possible.

If he coughs up the list, he's toast as a marketer.

If he doesn't cough up the list, he's in prison.

FWIW, I'll put 100 quatloos on the IRS CI being a bit more technologically astute than you give them credit for. Keep in mind that most of what they investigate is high end stuff (money laundering, offshore, illegal source income) not TPs.

[SteveSy]

FWIW, I'll put 100 quatloos on the IRS CI being a bit more technologically astute than you give them credit for. Keep in mind that most of what they investigate is high end stuff (money laundering, offshore, illegal source income) not TPs.

Possibly....but then why do they need to use the very low tech method of serving all those John Doe summons when they have all this technology at their disposal? How are the ctc returns getting processed to begin with? The IRS is like all of the other government agencies, over bloated, with over budget software programs that barely or don't work.

Keep the faith though...Maybe they can share some technology with the pentagon and stop the next very visible massive jumbo jet from flying in to the pentagon, one of the most if not the most important facility to our national defense, next time. lol

[Demosthenes]

Possibly....but then why do they need to serve all those John Doe summons when they have all this technology at their disposal? How are the ctc returns getting processed to begin with? The IRS is like all of the other government agencies, over bloated, with over budget software programs that barely or don't work.

IRS civil and IRS criminal are two different worlds.

[cynicalflyer]

Mr. Champion, through counsel, has agreed to deliver his computer to the Government in Las Vegas, Nevada, for inspection and copying on Tuesday, September 16, at 11:00 a.m. Champion also agreed to provide all passwords necessary to access his computer and files. The parties are presently negotiating the details of the meeting and the document examination process.
September 12, 2008

Any word from him as to whether or not he coughed it up yesterday?

[Nikki]

... the IRS does not have access to this method ...

Thus speaketh the World's Foremost Authority.

[buck09]

I'm sure the government has some super method of recovering data but the IRS does not have access to this method especially for some trivial case like Dave Champion. If it were concerning the location of weapons grade plutonium it might be a different story. A single pass like you said would make it useless to them. They might goes as far as using an undelete program but using something that measures the intensity of magnetized sections of the disk to recover lost data isn't going to happen. He'll probably just give them a computer that was never used for his contacts and avoid the evidence of a wipe program.

To support Buck's claim
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistp ... 8_rev1.pdf
p.8

Studies have shown that most of today’s media can be effectively cleared by one overwrite.

Actually, Steve's entirely correct. In addition, while many 3-letter agencies do specify a particular method of overwrite (based on old research and continuing based on paranoia and organizational momentum) most of the ones that actually store classified information require complete physical destruction of the disk.

As far as 3 letter agencies having some kind of super-special methods that the general public does not... Well, you'd like to think so, but they really don't. I've talked to people in this very specific line of work, in well-funded corners of government and they use the same commercial and open-source forensics technology that I do.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Actually, Steve's entirely correct.

[wserra]

The continuing saga of Dave Champion, uh, continues......

NOTICE OF EVENTS IN RESPONSE TO COURT ORDER
...
Mr. Champion, through counsel, has agreed to deliver his computer to the Government in Las Vegas, Nevada, for inspection and copying on Tuesday, September 16, at 11:00 a.m. Champion also agreed to provide all passwords necessary to access his computer and files.

And there have been no docket entries since. Could Champion have actually turned over info ratting out all those brave patriots?

My golden idol is tarnished.

[Nikki]

And there have been no docket entries since. Could Champion have actually turned over info ratting out all those brave patriots?
Could be

My golden idol is tarnished.

Feet of clay.