HisAdvocates.org - Kelby Smith & foreclosure stupidity

[LightinDarkness]

So I found myself with some time to surf the sovcit web of insanity this evening and registered for Kelby Smith's http://www.hisadvocates.org, a evangelical christian themed soverign citizen site designed to teach you all the 100% guaranteed not to work methods to get out of your mortgage foreclosure by using soverign citizen tactics in the courts. I really encourage people to take a look at this piece of work if you have the time.

The operation is run by Kelby Smith, chief propaganda minister - er, spokesperson for RuSA. It seems like this is a money maker for Kelby, as although there is "free" membership there is also "premium" membership for $49 (A MONTH) to get access to more fruitcake tactics. On top of that Kelby is now running seminars for $295 (!) teaching sovcit tactics - one that is highlighted on the website is "legal training" where he spreads the good old sovcit BS like telling people saying that they "understand" magically contracts you with the court.

My question for our resident lawyers: can someone do this legally? Although he has a huge disclaimer saying hes not offering legal advice he is clearly doing so, and for a profit, and hes clearly guiding people in way that will simply get their homes taken/thrown in jail if they listen. I know the guidelines for the practice of law vary by state, so he lives in Arizona. In the pictures of the seminars, it looks like hes getting at least 30 suckers to sign up for this insanity - thats $9k a pop for something that including travel expenses couldn't cost him more than $1k to run.

[LightinDarkness]

Listening to one of the previews for one of the seminairs it looks like hes teaching people to file sovcit gibberish with lenders that essentially does the following -

(1) Offers to pay the mortgage amount due but only in gold and silver
(2) When the lender rejects the offer, send sovcit gibberish document "notice of default and opportunity to cure"
(3) When lender doesn't respond to gibberish, sue lender in federal court for not accepting a "legal tender offer" to pay off the mortgage
(4) Win! (Not really, but that what hes telling them)

Then, after your amazing win where the judges flee from the court room and banks behold your mighty paperwork, you do the debunked land patent (same old sovcit stupidity here) process to be king on your land.

Other insane tactics hes selling: Changing the home title to remove the bank by lying to the recorder of deeds.

[LightinDarkness]

I do believe listening to Kelby Smith videos is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do since I cant physically reach out and slap this man. Even his history is complete conspiracy theorist/soverign BS, but what makes it SO BAD is that it only takes an elementary level of knowledge to understand how wrong he is.

Example: Hes talking about the revolutionary war, points out that France aided the colonies against Britain, and then says "and what were the other titles of the King of Britain at that time....King of Ireland, King of FRANCE....now if there was a different King of France at that time let me know, I've said this in front of 7 or 8 thousand people and no one has ever disputed this..." and then says sarcastically "hello?" as if this were some big revelation. Well no duh, Kelby, at that time the Kings of Britain included King of France in their title because they thought they had a historical claim to France's throne. Its not a freaking conspiracy.

I mean, my god, I know I am dealing with idiots, but it took 30 seconds on Wikipedia:

The Act of Union 1707 declared the joining of the Kingdom of England with the Kingdom of Scotland to a new Kingdom of Great Britain. The Kingdom had four Monarchs until 1801. They also styled themselves Queen/King of France; however, none of them actually questioned the rights of Louis XIV and his successors Louis XV, Louis XVI, Louis XVII and Louis XVIII:
George III of Great Britain (October 25, 1760 – January 1, 1801).

Other conspiracies Kelby talks about and believes in just 1 short hour, I swear to god hes never seen a conspiracy he didn't believe in:

- FEMA camps
- 9/11 was a inside job
- US is plotting to put you under martial law
- Katrina response was a conspiracy to test martial law
- Every president comes from the same bloodline
- Your birth certificate is a bond (confusing what a CUSIP is)
- United Nations is a lucferian plot
- Washington DC Street plan has a pentagram put there by NWO satanists (seen this one before...needless to say it doesn't exist, because one point of the star is completely missing...)
- Half of US Presidents have been 32nd degree masons (false - I'm a mason)
- The brains of the NWO is the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry because its the "head of all masons" (false - Scottish Rite is an optional order)

I mean..literally...I'm serious - this man has never read a conspiracy he did not believe in. Best I can tell he used to make a lot of money in the mortgage business pre-housing market crash and then lost it in all in 2008ish - then he went "down the rabbit hole" and drunk the kool-aid and hasn't been back to reality since.

[LightinDarkness]

AND he practices DMVP's "lawful money" stupidity! OK I am done. If I read anymore of this site I might give myself a stroke.

[ArthurWankspittle]

My question for our resident lawyers: can someone do this legally? Although he has a huge disclaimer saying hes not offering legal advice he is clearly doing so, and for a profit, and hes clearly guiding people in way that will simply get their homes taken/thrown in jail if they listen. I know the guidelines for the practice of law vary by state, so he lives in Arizona.

You have to check the rules in Arizona then, if he violating them, complain to the State Bar Association or whatever it's called there, that he is illegally practising law. Evidence will be needed but, if the Bar Association is happy there is a case they will take it from there. At least that seems to be how it worked with another case.

[notorial dissent]

Its not a freaking conspiracy.

Not even a particularly well kept secret except from the sovrunignoricenti, like Kelby, who seem to have either slept through, or avoided altogether the history classes in school, but then we are talking about Kelby's audience.

[LPC]

My question for our resident lawyers: can someone do this legally? Although he has a huge disclaimer saying hes not offering legal advice he is clearly doing so, and for a profit, and hes clearly guiding people in way that will simply get their homes taken/thrown in jail if they listen. I know the guidelines for the practice of law vary by state, so he lives in Arizona.

My recollection is that Arizona has no statute making the unauthorized practice of law a crime.

Even in states that have UPL statutes, giving seminars and promoting legal theories would usually not be considered to be UPL.

[Cathulhu]

Listening to one of the previews for one of the seminairs it looks like hes teaching people to file sovcit gibberish with lenders that essentially does the following -

(1) Offers to pay the mortgage amount due but only in gold and silver
(2) When the lender rejects the offer, send sovcit gibberish document "notice of default and opportunity to cure"
(3) When lender doesn't respond to gibberish, sue lender in federal court for not accepting a "legal tender offer" to pay off the mortgage
(4) Win! (Not really, but that what hes telling them)

Then, after your amazing win where the judges flee from the court room and banks behold your mighty paperwork, you do the debunked land patent (same old sovcit stupidity here) process to be king on your land.

Other insane tactics hes selling: Changing the home title to remove the bank by lying to the recorder of deeds.

Okay, if this is the method he's teaching--has anyone ever called the bluff in (1)? As in, "sure, bring in gold bullion, at the current buyers price and what you owe, we'll want 95 troy ounces." I'm pretty sure the sov will argue price and overvalue, (not making sense is what they do best), but it'd be interesting to see them suddenly saying they'll have to get back to you, since most don't have an actual hoard to raid and buying gold is expensive now.

[ArthurWankspittle]

My question for our resident lawyers: can someone do this legally? Although he has a huge disclaimer saying hes not offering legal advice he is clearly doing so, and for a profit, and hes clearly guiding people in way that will simply get their homes taken/thrown in jail if they listen. I know the guidelines for the practice of law vary by state, so he lives in Arizona.

My recollection is that Arizona has no statute making the unauthorized practice of law a crime.

Even in states that have UPL statutes, giving seminars and promoting legal theories would usually not be considered to be UPL.

Yes, sorry, I think he needs to be "doing" something specific for money not just giving seminars. So charging for filling in court forms may count, saying in a seminar file this form and put this here, will almost certainly not. George Tran comes to mind as someone who came close or got told off and told to stop, but the state concerned had UPL legislation.

[LPC]

So charging for filling in court forms may count, saying in a seminar file this form and put this here, will almost certainly not. George Tran comes to mind as someone who came close or got told off and told to stop, but the state concerned had UPL legislation.

From unauthorized practice of law decisions I have seen, there are really two different sources of law, policies, and remedies:

1. Courts have inherent powers, without any statutory authority, to determine who may practice before them, and they have the power to enjoin people from practicing before them, and to punish them if they violate the injunction. So, for example, I have seen decisions by bankruptcy courts who enjoined non-lawyers who were filling out bankruptcy forms for people. These decisions are usually about protect court processes from being mucked up by people who don't know what they're doing. (Not that lawyers don't also muck things up, but that's a different problem.)

2. Most states have criminal statutes that prohibit the unauthorized practice of law generally, without regard to whether there are court appearances and court filings. These statutes are ostensible to protect the public, and might also be enforced through injunctions.

[notorial dissent]

The practice of law is defined in Arizona Supreme Court Rule 31(a)(2)(A):

Practice of law means providing legal advice or services to another by:

• * Preparing any document in any medium intended to affect or secure legal rights for a specific person or entity;
  * Preparing or expressing legal opinions;
  * Representing another in a judicial, quasi-judicial, or administrative proceeding, or other formal dispute resolution process such as arbitrations and mediations;
  * Preparing any document through any medium for filing in any court, administrative agency or tribunal for a specific person or entity; or
  * Negotiating legal rights or responsibilities for a specific person or entity.

The definition of the practice of law is consistent with the definition in decisions by the Supreme Court of Arizona.
Unauthorized Practice of Law

The unauthorized practice of law is defined by Arizona Supreme Court Rule 31.

Rule 31(a)(2)(B) states: Unauthorized practice of law includes but is not limited to:

• * Engaging in the practice of law by persons or entities not authorized to practice pursuant to to paragraphs (b) or (c) or specifically admitted to practice pursuant to Rule 33(d); or
  * Using the designations "lawyer," "attorney at law, "counselor at law," "law," "law office," "J.D.," "Esq.," or other equivalent words by any person or entity not authorized to practice pursuant to to paragraphs (b) or (c) or specifically admitted to practice pursuant to Rule 33(d), the use of which is reasonably likely to induce others to believe that the person or entity is authorized to engage in the practice of law in this state.

[LightinDarkness]

One of the stories Kelby tells during these videos is about a daughter/wife that hes been "helping" who were foreclosed on and then evicted. After eviction they break & enter their way back in, and then the police later show up to throw them out. The daughter/wife team put Kelby on the phone, and Kelby SAYS in the video he tells them that he is there "counsel" and works his soverign mojo and they didn't arrest her (they did throw her out of the house, though).

That would seem to me to fit the definition of practicing law without a license.

[wserra]

Kelby and friends weigh in with how to the stop ebil banksters in their tracks when they try to foreclose. You'll want to read this.

You start with God:

We open up every call in prayer and David I would like to ask you to open this up in prayer.

Thank you ... for your protection as we move forward and stand righteously against these people.
Criminals. who are attempting without any fear to take our properties. Lord we just
come to you tonight, gathered as your body accepting and agreeing to move forward and
stand united against the fraud, against your people in Jesus name we pray Amen.
KELBY Amen, Amen I come in agreement.

God hates fraud.

We are very conscious of our words, so we are trying to stop the stealing of
private land without a trial by jury because it is a constitutional violation and the 7th
amendment says anything where there is a dispute of $20 or more we are preserved the
right to a trial buy jury

Well, actually the Seventh Amendment only deals with "Suits at common law", not foreclosures. And it has never been held applicable to the states, where foreclosures take place. And, in federal court, the amount in dispute must be at least $75K for diversity jurisdiction to apply. Other than those quibbles, point well taken.

All the basics for staying out of the jurisdiction of the court is going to be discussed. This is critical. The person that was on last weeks call because they learned the basics of how to stay our of the jurisdiction of the court

Ah, jurisdiction. The substance sovruns believe to be legal kryptonite. It would seem a little difficult to get a piece of real property "out of the jurisdiction of the court" without at least a backhoe, though.

Kelby then introduces "Dave", a "Man of God" who

went through bankruptcy for chap 11 bankruptcy for 2.5 years. where he didn't ever even submit the schedule. which is the first thing you have to submit. Just by staying our of the jurisdiction of Bankruptcy Court

The guy pursued a Ch. 11 bankruptcy without being in Bankruptcy Court? That would seem to be quite a trick. Oh, it was a common law bankruptcy.

It continues for 37 pages.

[LightinDarkness]

Wow, that is 37 pages of insanity. From what I can tell it looks like Kelby has updated the scam.

Before the scam was:
(1) Send legal gibberish offering to pay in gold/silver bullion
(2) Bank ignores legal gibberish offer
(3) Sue bank for refusing to accept payment when they try to foreclose

Now the scam seems to be:
(1) When facing foreclosure, call bank and lie and tell them fraud has been committed. This delays bank as they investigate loan details.
(2) Declare bankruptcy before they can foreclose to stall?
(3) If (2) doesn't work - file legal gibberish on land patents

[LightinDarkness]

Well folks it looks like the fruitcake money train this month is running a little drier than normal. Kelby is offered a 60% off coupon (!) for his in-person legal gibberish seminar. Instead of $495 per mark, you too can now learn how to make courts mad and have no hope of ever getting your house back for $195!

And thats not all, folks! Kelby is now streaming the seminar LIVE for those of you who can't afford to attend in person. You too can now join the insanity over the internet for $150!

AND, thats not all! If you need one on one work with a trained soverign nutter so you too can ensure your legal gibberish paperwork is right, you can get that now too for $95 per day or $135 for the weekend! WHAT A DEAL!

What a deal to learn how to get yourself thrown in jail!

Kelby stresses the importance of these events. He announced on a recent call that FOR SURE were all going to be chipped sometime next month (remember hes never met a conspiracy he didn't believe in) and that the economy would start collapsing soon after that! So get in before total economic collapse and fema camps come!

Kelby also stressed that we should not feel bad at all about not paying back our loans. It seems as though some people have come to him and expressed that people should pay loans they take out. Well don't let personal responsibility bother you. You see, since your signature creates the money and by law that money can't exist without your signature, you owe fictional money that was never the banks and should not be bothered with things like thinking you should pay the obligations you promised.

Kelby also explained why he cannot actually cite one single court case where he won, even though he claims hes won lots of time using this legal gibberish. You see, it turns out they win at the "administrative level" which somehow means they can't cite any wins.

[JamesVincent]

It's kinda funny but he reminds me of the Occupy movement. One of their big things was no one should have to pay back the huge student loans that they took out to learn an unusable skill if they can't afford to. And that banks should allow people to live in foreclosed homes for free (part of Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Baltimore was morons actually breaking into foreclosed homes and setting up shop.. while video taping it). Maybe he should switch to that movement to find his sucke... I mean students.

[ArthurWankspittle]

AND, thats not all! If you need one on one work with a trained soverign nutter so you too can ensure your legal gibberish paperwork is right, you can get that now too for $95 per day or $135 for the weekend! WHAT A DEAL!

Depending on what he's helping you fill in or file, this is the sort of thing that can get you in trouble for unauthorized practice of law.

[LightinDarkness]

Until now I wasn't sure what started Kelby going down the rabbit hole - its buried in his videos. Apparently he was in the real estate business in California and completely leveraged himself - INCLUDING HIS PERSONAL CREDIT - in the housing boom, which meant when the California housing market crashed he lost everything. After being foreclosed upon he stumbled upon conspiracy theories and the redemption movement insanity, and hes been going down the rabbit hole ever since. It all started two ways:

(1) He seems to think its a HUGE DEAL that his birth certificate paper is on 32 pound water marked bond paper (this ***MUST MEAN*** its really a financial instrument!). It never occurred to him that most places use that paper because birth certificates are important documents and the paper quality ensures it will last.
(2) Googling conspiracies he found the often cited map that shows a pentagram symbol if you draw it between certain Washington DC landmarks. Of course the fact that Washington DC's street pattern make it possible for you to draw almost any geometric shape if you pick the right points never occurred to him (seriously, I've seen someone write JESUS in the DC street patterns to prove this).

I really do believe that he thinks every single conspiracy theory is real. I have never seen him express one ounce of doubt about all the conspiracies he espouses (freemasons, NWO, Illuminati, federal reserve, 9/11, FEMA camps, were all gonna be chipped, economic collapse any day now, Obama a muslim, Satanists control DC..it goes on and on).

And now hes leading at least hundreds to file legal gibberish paperwork which will put them in the exact same scenario he is in, if not worse.

[LightinDarkness]

AND, thats not all! If you need one on one work with a trained soverign nutter so you too can ensure your legal gibberish paperwork is right, you can get that now too for $95 per day or $135 for the weekend! WHAT A DEAL!

Depending on what he's helping you fill in or file, this is the sort of thing that can get you in trouble for unauthorized practice of law.

Sounds like its meant for the mark to pay for the service to get one on one time on how to specifically use paper terrorism in their foreclosure case and how to respond to the courts when they laugh at you.

[notorial dissent]

Well, isn't that just extra special!!!!

Actually, I'm sure the real estate collapse didn't help his mental state, but all things considered, I rather suspect he was there long before that happened. Considering some of the real estate types I knew once upon a time, he sounds about par for the course. The thing is, that when they are busy making money, they don't have time for the crazy to show, but when they aren't making the money anymore, the crazy do come out.