Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

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arayder
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Bill Lumbergh wrote:That NWO2 fella is calling it quits, no longer promoting the freeman movement because there are too many charlatans out there (except Menard, apparently).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROTDQKm ... ooCFMpQROg

Oh and there appears to be a new Dean facebook page that sprung up two weeks ago: https://www.facebook.com/DeanCliffordChannel

Of interest is this post which apparently explains why it's been all quiet on the freedom front:
Dean has had his pin for phone calls taken away and has been placed back in solitary confinement over since last week. may have something do to with the last update or things said over recorded called from the jail. update 13 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYYvo7o-Mro
So Bates is going to reject every freeman except Menard who gave subsequent freeman every crazy idea they now pose as reality?

Bates has been having a bromance with Menard, who he calls "the one true freeman on YouTube. . .", for some time now.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Please see this recording of the Vinny Eastwood Show titled "Mindblowing Info About Psychopaths, Freeman Movement, Feminism & More, Thomas Sheridan and Max Igan":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbDb_0D9KfM

It's a long one. Sorry.

One of the crew over at World Freeman Society Forum made the following time line comments:

"-4:30- they admit that no Freeman has been successful in court. This needs to be emphasized. In ten years of the movement there are no wins.
-5:30- talks about a guy who lost his family to Freeman beliefs. This is very common.
-8:30- Vinny says Gurus should warn people that there are costs associated with these beliefs. Agreed
-11:00- points out that the "freeman victory" videos posted on youtube are all misleading or from 2008. Correctly points out that things have changed drastically in 4 years and courts now deal with this nonsense more harshly.
-13:30- Vinny makes some astute observations that Freemanism is a type of mind control.
-17:00- "If the experts are giving press conferences from jail then this stuff doesn't work". 100% truth.
-20:00- "the movement attracts criminals and scammers" too true.
-22:00- "there will be no happy endings for freemen" truth."


-------------------

So lately we have seen lots of strive in freeman subculture:
-- bmx's outting of the freemen at WFS.
-- startling revelations of Dean Clifford's deceptions and greed as reported by his former web guy, Alex.
-- Steve Bate's rejection of all freemen except Robert Menard.
-- Menard's attempts to distance himself from Clifford.
-- the Duncan/Menard feud.
-- and now Vinny Eastwood's show claiming psychopathy, greed, failure, mind control and deceit in the freeman Movement.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by bmxninja357 »

arayder wrote:Please see this recording of the Vinny Eastwood Show titled "Mindblowing Info About Psychopaths, Freeman Movement, Feminism & More, Thomas Sheridan and Max Igan":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbDb_0D9KfM

One of the crew over at World Freeman Society Forum made the following time line comments:

"-4:30- they admit that no Freeman has been successful in court. This needs to be emphasized. In ten years of the movement there are no wins.
-5:30- talks about a guy who lost his family to Freeman beliefs. This is very common.
-8:30- Vinny says Gurus should warn people that there are costs associated with these beliefs. Agreed
-11:00- points out that the "freeman victory" videos posted on youtube are all misleading or from 2008. Correctly points out that things have changed drastically in 4 years and courts now deal with this nonsense more harshly.
-13:30- Vinny makes some astute observations that Freemanism is a type of mind control.
-17:00- "If the experts are giving press conferences from jail then this stuff doesn't work". 100% truth.
-20:00- "the movement attracts criminals and scammers" too true.
-22:00- "there will be no happy endings for freemen" truth."

(jeffery from here)
-------------------

So lately we have seen lots of strive in freeman subculture:
-- bmx's outting of the freemen at WFS.
-- startling revelations of Dean Clifford's deceptions and greed as reported by his former web guy, Alex.
-- Steve Bate's rejection of all freemen except Robert Menard.
-- Menard's attempts to distance himself from Clifford.
-- the Duncan/Menard feud.
-- and now Vinny Eastwood's show claiming psychopathy, greed, failure, mind control and deceit in the freeman Movement.

so to be clear, i have outed no one.
dean clifford by his own words is either a dick or a loon.
who associates duncan and menard but you?
and some interweb radio guy from the states? really? many of those folks are from the u.s. ya know. i do not expect many jurisdictions to agree on points that are nation specific my man.

grow bro.
we are not all nuts or being held by whatever perception of cult you hold dear.

in short,
can i learn more here about the subject of dean clifford?
peace,
ninj

(ps as i said you only reword stuff from the jref and claim it or take it from hither to thither and do the same. )
whoever said laughter is the best medicine never had gonorrhea....
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

bmxninja357 wrote: so to be clear, i have outed no one.
Oh, really?

Like some stooly who runs his mouth during a police investigation you can't seem to remember what you said when.

You posted here saying you don't like to talk about the details of WFS posters and in the very same post proceeded to do just that.

In the post above you go so far as to make it clear you comb the ISP addresses of WFS posters to see which members here post there. . .and then you tell us exactly who one such poster is.

So how are you different from the NSA, except that they never claimed to have ethics?
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

who associates duncan and menard but you?
I believe Arayder is referencing the recent Facebook argument between Menard and Duncan.
some interweb radio guy from the states
I believe Eastwood is from New Zealand and the other guy is Australian (?). Regardless their main points are on target.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Jeffrey wrote:
who associates duncan and menard but you?
I believe Arayder is referencing the recent Facebook argument between Menard and Duncan.
some interweb radio guy from the states
I believe Eastwood is from New Zealand and the other guy is Australian (?). Regardless their main points are on target.
The point is that freemen used to have their own version of Ronald Reagan's 11th commandment (Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican) and only very rarely called one another to task for their pseudo-scholarship, dismal results and outright deceptions.

But now that the movement is going into its second decade of unbridled failure it appears every freeman guru and wannabe guru can't run fast enough to get away from the reality of the movement's crash and burn.

Ironically our new friend is part of the movement's New Order of Denial.

Lest he opine that this has nothing to do with Clifford, I would submit that Dean's greed, lies and useless rehash of every freeman theory in the book helped greatly in causing the wholesale realization in the "freedom movement" that freemanism is just so much hogwash.

Watching freeman guru after freeman guru pretend that he or she has nothing to do with the sorry state of of freemanary and the ensuing back biting chaos is like watching so many clowns rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

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Last edited by arayder on Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

arayder wrote:
Jeffrey wrote:
who associates duncan and menard but you?
I believe Arayder is referencing the recent Facebook argument between Menard and Duncan.
some interweb radio guy from the states
I believe Eastwood is from New Zealand and the other guy is Australian (?). Regardless their main points are on target.
The point is that freemen used to have their own version of Ronald Reagan's 11th commandment (Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican) and only very rarely called one another to task for their pseudo-scholarship, dismal results and outright deceptions.

But now that the movement is going into its second decade of unbridled failure it appears every freeman guru and wannabe guru can't run fast enough to get away from the reality of the movement's crash and burn.

Ironically our new friend is part of the movement's New Order of Denial.

Lest he opine that this has nothing to do with Clifford, I would submit that Dean's greed, lies and useless rehash of every freeman theory in the book helped greatly in causing the wholesale realization in the "freedom movement" that freemanism is just so much hogwash.

Watching freeman guru after freeman guru pretend that he or she has nothing to do with the sorry state of of freemanary and the ensuing back biting chaos is like watching so many clowns rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I'm going to say good for BMX and some of the others for being open-minded instead of sticking to a party line. Definitely a better way to live life.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

4 weeks without an update from Team Dean.

Court website however showing much activity. Dean's motion to quash his conviction was heard on the 17th, has what look like a bail hearing on the 21st and Dean has managed to file another affidavit and brief on the 18th to his lawsuit against the Queen and everyone involved in his prosecution. Looks like that won't be dealt with until August 1st.

Is it month 8 or 9 that he's been in there?
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Yes, it looks like Dean’s applications to quash his criminal convictions (What?! What convictions?!) has been set over to Monday, July 21 for another hearing. The July 17 hearing is described as “criminal uncontested motions”, and I guess the Crown didn’t agree with Dean’s submissions.

Whatta shock.

I’m pretty sure the ‘applications to quash’ are being treated as yet more habeas corpus applications, which is interesting because it tells us more about what Dean is doing, even without seeing his documentation. If Dean was going to the Manitoba Court of Queen’s Bench and saying “I’m innocent – let me out”, or "they breached the Charter - let me out", or "the trial procedure was botched - let me out", then these would be appeals of the judgment below.

One of the very few reasons I can think of to quash a lower court judgment rather than seek an appeal is due to an alleged lack of jurisdiction.

Knowing Dean, that’s exactly what he has done. Whether he says that is because he is a magical Freeman, the court didn’t have his consent, or some symbolic doodah was displayed – who knows. He'll probably quote the Bible and spin some 'maxims of law', obsolete or imaginary.

I can’t imagine the application will have any effect, but who’s to say? Perhaps Dean will be the guru who at last discovers the magic incantation to undo the courts.

Nevertheless, my money is on another failure.

And hey, look, there IS another update on DeanClifford.info, allegedly posted by Darren Clifford himself (http://deanclifford.info/2014/07/19/update-14/)! Jeffrey - I think you have the mystical capacity to trigger Dean Clifford updates! Some kind of summoning spell, perhaps?

The first paragraph indicates that Dean has indeed managed to get the authorities attention with his online video rantings.
Dean has been in solitary for 3 weeks. His phone pin was taken away after his court appearance on June 20th and he was moved to solitary shortly after. He explained during a visit on July 4th that the guards had told him there is a police investigation underway due to threats to certain officials. Being as Dean currently has a civil lawsuit against 3 judges, a crown attorney, and 2 policeman, they must feel very threatened and are using solitary confinement as a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents. The lawyers for the defendants in his civil suit had served him with a motion to strike on June 18th and since that time they have obstructed him in every possible way from filing his own motion to contest. A hearing for the contested motion was set on July 2nd. Dean explained to the judge that he is in solitary and has been prevented from filing, so the hearing was adjourned until Aug. 2nd to give him time to file.
Congratulations Dean. You are likely soon to be facing some additional Criminal Code charges – but I don’t think it’s because of the civil lawsuit. If the Manitoba courts adopt Fearn v. Canada Customs, 2014 ABQB 114 then it’s probably criminal contempt of court proceedings.

Then it’s back to the notary business again:
In the meantime Dean has prepared several motions. A motion to show cause and a new application for interim release. He had everything along with affidavits and exhibits ready to be picked up on July 4th. I had an appointment with a notary to meet at Brandon Corrections to witness the documents being signed. When I got to Brandon the notary asked me to meet at his office to discuss Dean’s case. He informed me that the Law Society had sent out letters regarding “sovereign citizens” and how they are a nuisance and taking up unnecessary court time. He also stated that he wasn’t comfortable notarizing for Dean because Dean is suing judges of the provincial court that he (the lawyer) is often involved within the court. He seemed rather apologetic after he had discriminated, profiled, and trampled upon my rights and Dean’s. …
Mmm… I think it depends on the documents, not the person. My bet is the Manitoba Law Society has said “don’t notarize OPCA documents”, not “don’t notarized any documents from a sovereign citizen or a Freeman-on-the-Land”. I suspect Darren and Dean aren’t so hot at detecting the distinction between an obligation to not further a fraud on the court, vs. ‘discrimination’.
… He had looked at Dean’s history and clearly saw and stated that he shouldn’t be in there, and no one else would be put through that sort of abuse, but Dean just has to comply in a few ways to be released. I explained to this poor, selfish, un-enlightened individual that Dean isn’t the sort of man who would comply with a rapist, just bend over, or tow the line to appease any psychotic abuse of power. I explained that he will continue to stand for what’s right, because if you aren’t part of the solution you are part of the problem. I explained that there will be more civil lawsuits against more public officials who continue to abuse their status and commit serious human rights violations. These officials believe that by force they will be able to quell any political reforms or demands for fairness, equality, and impartiality from the public. They don’t realize that they are bringing people closer together from across the country and exposing their own tyrannical nature.
Vexatious litigant status impending!
On Monday 21st of July at 2pm Dean will be at Queen’s Bench with motions to quash the Highway Traffic Act convictions and federal charges from Selkirk, on Friday 25th Dean will be in Provincial Court in Selkirk with a motion to show cause and to address a bail application and on Saturday August 2nd Dean will be in Queens Bench Civil Court with a motion to release his property.
Ah – weren’t all the “federal charges” dropped, Darren? Why is Dean back in provincial court contesting those – if they’re gone? How odd. Don’t think a “motion to show cause” will have much effect in a criminal proceeding – that’s what the preliminary inquiry is for.
Dean would like to make a special mention of the lawyers at Foerster Law Office for their assistance in getting his paperwork notarised.
Yes, there is a Dennis M. Foerster in Brandon, Manitoba (http://www.goguild.com/brandon-mb/denni ... law-office), so perhaps at least that much is true. They offered a discount coupon for their services (http://www.goguild.com/platform/print/coupon.php?i=9489), though sadly it has expired. Judging from CanLII’s records of representation by “Dennis M. Foerster” he is a civil litigator, not a criminal defence lawyer.
Dean needs all the support he can get right now. Letters of support and encouragement can be sent to 375 Veterans Way Brandon MB. R7C 0B1. He is on the final stretch to the finish line and will be out soon.
Perhaps we should send him a copy of R. v. Eddy, 2014 ABQB 391 (http://canlii.ca/t/g7wj9). The CanLII version, not one with a Westlaw/eCarswell headnote.

Soon! Soon! So many Soons!

Nevertheless Dean IS winning! Or Dean has already won!

All these antics are going to make a lovely aggravating factor during Dean’s sentencing hearing.

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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

He explained during a visit on July 4th that the guards had told him there is a police investigation underway due to threats to certain officials. Being as Dean currently has a civil lawsuit against 3 judges, a crown attorney, and 2 policeman, they must feel very threatened and are using solitary confinement as a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents.
Of course, it's a conspiracy. It has nothing to do with Dean issuing death threats in the last two updates while on the phone with Darren.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Jeffrey wrote:
He explained during a visit on July 4th that the guards had told him there is a police investigation underway due to threats to certain officials. Being as Dean currently has a civil lawsuit against 3 judges, a crown attorney, and 2 policeman, they must feel very threatened and are using solitary confinement as a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents.
Of course, it's a conspiracy. It has nothing to do with Dean issuing death threats in the last two updates while on the phone with Darren.
It's the ongoing freeman fantasy that their legal theories and magical documents strike fear in the hearts of the powers that be.

In reality they are the courtroom equivalent of mall ninjas.

It seems to have escaped Darren's notice that Dean is zero for life at the legal plate and that the more rational explanation for his solitary confinement is his own behavior.

The recorded phone call threats were bad enough, but one has to suspect Rageboy lost it more than once when dealing guards and other prisoners.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

Dean has been in solitary for 3 weeks. His phone pin was taken away after his court appearance on June 20th and he was moved to solitary shortly after. He explained during a visit on July 4th that the guards had told him there is a police investigation underway due to threats to certain officials. Being as Dean currently has a civil lawsuit against 3 judges, a crown attorney, and 2 policeman, they must feel very threatened and are using solitary confinement as a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents. The lawyers for the defendants in his civil suit had served him with a motion to strike on June 18th and since that time they have obstructed him in every possible way from filing his own motion to contest. A hearing for the contested motion was set on July 2nd. Dean explained to the judge that he is in solitary and has been prevented from filing, so the hearing was adjourned until Aug. 2nd to give him time to file.
Could one of his supporters please explain why being in solitary as opposed to just being in jail is "a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents". Unless he was getting advice from some of the others in the jail, this doesn't make any sense. But then getting advice off people in jail doesn't make good sense either.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

Not to mention they claim they're trying to "further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents" yet he's had no fucking problem filing multiple motions and affidavits each week, two on Friday alone.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

ArthurWankspittle wrote: Could one of his supporters please explain why being in solitary as opposed to just being in jail is "a means to further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents". Unless he was getting advice from some of the others in the jail, this doesn't make any sense. But then getting advice off people in jail doesn't make good sense either.
Jeffrey wrote:Not to mention they claim they're trying to "further obstruct his ability to prepare his own documents" yet he's had no fucking problem filing multiple motions and affidavits each week, two on Friday alone.
Freemanary attracts a lot of whining semi-professional victims. And Dean's one of 'em.

When he's not claiming the cops are physically and mentally abusing him, he's whining that he's not being allowed to file the documents he is, in reality, filing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. . .Dean's living in a prosperous, open and just western democracy, chock full of kind and generous people. . .and he still can't make his way.

He's a loser and so is his brother, Darren!

If he'd tried even a few of his little games in Russia, China, Iran or Sudan the powers that be would have beat his arse, railroaded him into a dirty, stinking prison (where he'd find out why his cell mate is nicknamed Ivan the Terrible), fed him bread and water and thrown away the key.

I think Dean believes he can get away with his games in Canada because the country doesn't have debtor prisons and no cop has pistol whipped him for having a sassy mouth. What he doesn't seem to realize is that there is limit to what a patient and just Canada society and its courts will put up with.

I'm betting he won't realize his mistake even as they drag him out of the court after his sentencing.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

I am still of the opinion that they could audition for the parts in a "Dumber and Dumber" movie and be shoe ins. Dean is obviously the "brains" of the outfit, and that points to a very sorry and sad state of existence.

It was so very nice of Dean to record and then broadcast his death threats and threats of personal injury to public officials, makes the prosecution ever so much easier when the culprit pre-confesses to intended crimes. Plays particularly well at sentencing and clemency hearings as well. Should really do wonders for him at the inevitable sentencing and mitigation conference. Does Canada do enhanced sentencing for deserving parties?
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Dean says he preaches doing no harm. But that's just what he says when he wants to convince paying customers that they are not wasting their money on him.

The plain fact is there's a mile wide trail of harm left in Dean's wake! He has a history of not paying for what he takes (tools and electric power), assaulting peace officers (he's admitted doing so).

Dean lied to his contributors and seminar attendees about his claimed successes, thus taking their money under false pretenses.

Then he makes death threats against cops. . .which he records and has put on the web!

You're right, notorial dissent, that's dumb!
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

I've noticed that there seems to be a real disjunction(cant' think of the word I really want here) between what the pretend FOTL types say, and what they actually do in real life. Dumb and Dumber being prime grade A examples, but Bobby and the parasite aren't any better at it about it. Dumb and Dumber are truly societal parasites giving nothing and living off someone else's work and effort, they can't even come up with anything original, they have to steal everything they are peddling, and, as you say, leave a trail of damage, pain, and ruin trailing behind them.

I'm sure there must be FOTL types who actually live the ethos, but we don't and won't see them because they really are living their beliefs and not trying to be perpetually in trouble with the law and society. They are also not lying dishonest frauds and hypocrites the way Dumb and Dumber, Bobby, and the parasite are.

The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

In essence the Deans and Menard are calling for a world without understandable, certain and enforceable laws.

Their refusal to consent to any laws that inconvenience them, juxtaposed with their acceptance of any law they feel they can reinterpret to their benefit would make a miss mash of society.

They would have the world made of the sort of chaos that marks their lives.

Menard tries to turn centuries of western thought and tradition on its head by pretending he has the same authority as democratic governments to make currency and create police forces. In the fantasy park inside his head, the narcissistic Menard is the monarch who makes law by his thought and word.

Dean, on the other hand, doesn't want just life, liberty and property. He wants to have the liberty to take everyone else's property for the rest of his life.

At the rate he's going much of his life is going to be spent in jail, without liberty or property.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

On the brighter side of things, the most plausible new criminal charge is Criminal Code, s. 423.1, intimidation of a justice system participant. It prohibits, among other things:
(a) using violence against a justice system participant or a journalist or anyone known to either of them or destroying or causing damage to the property of any of those persons;
If that's the way things proceed then Dean has the potential of racking up yet more substantial time:
423.1(3) Every person who contravenes this section is guilty of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than fourteen years.
And the nice thing for people like me is that since that is an indictable offence only, the trial will only occur in the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench, where ultimately we can monitor its progress.

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