Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

RyanMcC

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by RyanMcC »

SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie?
I have, I could have done a better job making the "documentary" myself.
SteveSy wrote:The movie merely asks a lot of questions that seemingly have answers contrary to popular belief. At no point does it advocate not paying taxes or not filing.
It does claim no law exists requiring you to file or pay the income tax.
Russo also interviews members of the tax honesty movement as well as disenfranchised IRS agents who agree that no law on the books conjures up a requirement to send the government part of one's hard-earned paycheck. Russo then showcases court cases where those accused of tax evasion have won precisely because the prosecution cannot provide evidence of a legal federal income tax law.

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/downloads/dvd.php
Demosthenes
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Demosthenes »

SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie?
I have. I also paid $100 to purchase the transcript of the entire film from Russo.
Demo.
gezco

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by gezco »

Demosthenes wrote:
SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie?
I have. I also paid $100 to purchase the transcript of the entire film from Russo.
I’ve watched it too, but I refuse to actually pay Russo to see it, so I watched it online. You must be serious about writing a book if you actually sent Russo $100.
Famspear
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Famspear »

Aaron Russo was a talented filmmaker, and it was sad and embarrassing to see him sink like this at the end of his career and life. The contents of this "documentary" and his personal tax problems aside, the publicity both before and after the release of this film was a disappointment. For example, the above-linked web site states:
America: Freedom to Fascism is a compelling and troubling account of how the wealth of our nation was silently passed from its citizens to a handful of powerful bankers in 1913. That's the year the Federal Reserve Act and the 16th Amendment were introduced, giving a privately held corporation the means to control our finances while ensuring its interest payments through the strong arms of the newly-formed Internal Revenue Service.
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/downloads/dvd.php

The Federal Reserve System, of course, is not a "corporation" -- public, private or otherwise. It's a central banking system. Some of its components are indeed privately held corporations (specifically, the member banks), other parts are quasi-private/quasi-governmental (the twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks), and still other parts are strictly governmental bodies, such as the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. And the Internal Revenue Service was not "newly-formed" in 1913 -- not that this really makes any difference.
Russo's first and most cogent point is simple: Americans are not required to pay a federal income tax. [ . . . ] Russo takes that same belief to IRS employees and simply asks them to cite where it says an unapportioned income tax is required of us all. Guess what? They can't.
Whooptie-doo! Relatively few IRS employees can cite any constitutional provision regarding taxation -- or any Internal Revenue Code provision regarding taxation. In fact, relatively few tax practitioners need to be able to cite specific constitutional provisions on taxation.

One segment of the film I have seen shows Russo walking around, asking people on the street if they have ever seen the law making them liable for the federal income tax. And of course, virtually no one has. Just as virtually no one has ever seen the law in their particular state making it a crime to commit murder. I myself cannot cite the Texas statute on murder -- but I have read it many times, I know where it's located, and I can find it in a few seconds if I'm near an internet connection.
In a telling segment Sheldon Cohen, former commissioner of the IRS, goes so far as to reject Supreme Court rulings and the Constitution as benchmarks over what is legal with regards to taxation.
No, he doesn't.
Russo also interviews members of the tax honesty movement as well as disenfranchised IRS agents who agree that no law on the books conjures up a requirement to send the government part of one's hard-earned paycheck.
Ah, so the fact that the members of the ironically titled "tax honesty" movement and those "disenfranchised IRS agents" agree means that there really is no such law?
Russo then showcases court cases where those accused of tax evasion have won precisely because the prosecution cannot provide evidence of a legal federal income tax law.
No, he doesn't. There are no such court cases.

Now, Russo can't be held responsible for this particular verbiage, since he's gone now and it was written by someone else and posted on the film's web site. But the same kind of disinformation was associated with the publicity for this "documentary" when he was alive -- at the time of the film's release, including the fake implication that the film had been entered into and had been a part of the Cannes Film Festival, when he actually only exhibited the film at the town of Cannes at the time the festival was being held.

Russo also is reported to have used an infamous fake Woodrow Wilson "quote" supposedly on the subject of the evil ol', bad ol' Federal Reserve System that is constantly bandied about on the internet (if I recall, it is a combination of a fake quote with two actual quotes pulled from different places and placed together -- to make it appear that Wilson was talking trash about the Federal Reserve System).

The critics said it best. Scott Moore, movie critic of the Portland Mercury, wrote:
There are a lot of stupid people in this world, and some of those stupid people are going to see ''America: From Freedom to Fascism'' and buy into its half-baked, hole-ridden, libertarian rhetoric about the alleged illegality of the federal income tax. And that's a shame, if for no other reason than it'll be a small defeat for logic. [ . . . ] By presenting half-baked ideas with the faux certainty that comes through sheer repetition and bending historical facts to fit his agenda, Russo manages to portray the legality of the income tax as something actually worthy of debate. Thing is, it's only up for debate among anti-tax conspiracy theorists who have anarchist, anti-social tendencies.
And Nathan Rabin of the Onion A.V. Club wrote, on July 26, 2006:
One-time Libertarian presidential candidate and ''Rude Awakening'' auteur Aaron Russo has some very good news for you: You don't have to pay income taxes anymore! Congrats! Don't spend all that extra money in one place! [ . . . ] Now the bad news: any day now, jackbooted thugs will break down your door, seize your belongings, and insert a computer chip inside you so you can be monitored at all times by the looming one-world international government. Yes, ''America: Freedom To Fascism'' gives the Michael Moore muckraking-underdog treatment to the kind of delirious conspiracy theories generally associated with mentally ill homeless people screaming at passersby to stop stealing their brainwaves.

[ . . .]In his wildly digressive quest to uncover the (supposedly nonexistent) law forcing Americans to pay income tax, Russo unconvincingly indicts a rogue's gallery of scoundrels and heavies from both sides of the political divide.

From the IRS to the greedy bankers behind the Federal Reserve to The Patriot Act to globalization and multinational corporations, ''Fascism'' rails semi-coherently against bogeymen on the left and right, employing public-access production values and a world-changing sense of purpose wildly disproportionate to its paltry resources and amateurish direction. The film somehow manages the formidable task of being far more paranoid and hysterical than even its screaming tabloid-headline title would suggest.
Russo had approximately $2 million in Federal tax liens against his property. He also had state tax problems in California. Despite marketing his film as a "documentary," Russo reportedly refused to discuss his objectivity with respect to his personal federal tax problems with reporters -- contending that his federal tax problems were not relevant to his motivation for making a film questioning the legal validity of federal taxes.
Last edited by Famspear on Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by The Operative »

Famspear wrote: Russo also is reported to have used an infamous fake Woodrow Wilson "quote" supposedly on the subject of the evil ol', bad ol' Federal Reserve System that is constantly bandied about on the internet (if I recall, it is a combination of a fake quote with two actual quotes pulled from different places and placed together -- to make it appear that Wilson was talking trash about the Federal Reserve System).
Just for general information, the 'quote' from the film which was supposedly made in 1919.
fake quote wrote: I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
The first part of the quote cannot be found at any reliable source. The rest of the quote, beginning with "A great industrial nation" was taken word for word from two places in Woodrow Wilson's book, "The New Freedom". However, the book was published in 1913, BEFORE the passage of the Federal Reserve Act, and the book is really a compilation of speeches he made during his campaign for the Presidency in 1911 and 1912. The book may be read at http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14811/14 ... 4811-h.htm
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.
SteveSy

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by SteveSy »

So I guess no one can point out where the movie advocates fraud....that's all I wanted to know, thanks.

Just because he interviewed people saying they believe there is no law saying something does not equate to advocating fraud. At the very most the movie would entice someone to question or be skeptical of their government. I realize that's unforgivable in your book...but sorry to say it doesn't sink to the level of enticing people to commit fraud. PBS personnel probably rolled their eyes and laughed to themselves at the emails and or phone calls they got from you guys. I bet you got something like "We'll take that in to consideration", in other words "You're wasting my time".
Famspear
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Famspear »

SteveSy wrote:So I guess no one can point out where the movie advocates fraud....that's all I wanted to know, thanks.
Are you looking for a specific example where the movie encourages people to commit fraud? Or are you asking for an example where Russo makes a statement that is fraudulent? And I haven't seen the movie all the way through, so I can't give examples, either way (assuming that there are any in the film). I'm just wanting to be clear on what your question is.

My sadness about Russo and his film is expressed in the post above. Obviously, if Russo deliberately included the Wilson "quote" in the film, he committed fraud or, at a minimum, he was recklessly indifferent as to the truth.

Russo made comments about "title 26" not being "the law," but those comments may have been only in an interview, not in the film. Those comments would be fraudulent or, again, at a minimum, recklessly indifferent as to the truth. Russo's tactic of interviewing people on the street and asking them whether they have ever seen a particular statute -- with the obvious intent of misleading people into thinking that the statute does not exist -- is certainly fraudulent or, at a minimum, reckless as to the truth. Russo was certainly aware that the statute existed; he could not have argued that it was not "the law" without being aware of its existence.

Steve, I would think that if you're asking others to cite an example where Russo came out and stated, in the film, point blank, something like "the law does not exist," then you are straining too hard.
Just because he interviewed people saying they believe there is no law saying something does not equate to advocating fraud. At the very most the movie would entice someone to question or be skeptical of their government.
Obviously, you are in a very distinct minority, Steve. Lots of people who saw the film came away with a completely different view.
I realize that's unforgivable in your book
No you don't realize that. You don't even believe what you are saying here Steve. You and I both know that you are anti-government. You even go so far as to refuse to "accept" court decisions you don't like, stating that you don't really care what "some federal judge says who is appointed and paid by the very people trying to usurp the constitution", to use your own words. You say that you decide the law for yourself, and that you even believe it's somehow your "right" to decide the law for yourself. You and I both know that you are trying to falsely equate the puncturing of tax protester fraud with support for the government. And since you don't like the government, you don't like to see people exposing tax protester activity for what it is: fraudulent, criminal, and sick.

Steve, do you really think anyone here is fooled into thinking you really believe your implication that tax protesting is merely about "questioning the government" or merely being "skeptical" of government?

How lame.

If someone of normal education and intelligence were to fervently "believe" that The Moon is made of Green Cheese -- in spite of having read all the scientific literature to the contrary -- would that person just be "questioning science" or just being "skeptical of science"? No, Steve, tax protesters, like my admittedly imaginary examples of the Green Cheese People, are way beyond merely being "skeptical" about things.

Steve, news reporters are skeptical of government. Auditors are skeptical.

Tax protesting -- in the legal sense of using frivolous arguments about the nature and validity of federal income tax law -- is something like the equivalent of arguing that the government is run by shape-shifting lizard-like aliens.

The ideas of Russo, and Hendrickson, and Schiff, and all the rest of their ilk -- the crazy tax protester ideas we discuss every day in this forum -- have nothing to do with merely "questioning" or being "skeptical." These ideas have nothing to do with patriotism, or truth, or any of the concepts behind any other high-sounding words used by these scammers in futile attempts to justify their criminality. The ideas of these people come from sick and criminal minds. Let's not try to elevate those criminal ideas, or those people's motives, into something they're not.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
RyanMcC

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by RyanMcC »

SteveSy wrote:So I guess no one can point out where the movie advocates fraud....that's all I wanted to know, thanks.
Russo: "He's right, I don't believe him, and neither should you. He wants us to believe we should obey the IRS code, which is being enforced in violation of the many Supreme Court decisions." - 36:27

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3867390173
SteveSy

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by SteveSy »

RyanMcC wrote:
SteveSy wrote:So I guess no one can point out where the movie advocates fraud....that's all I wanted to know, thanks.
Russo: "He's right, I don't believe him, and neither should you. He wants us to believe we should obey the IRS code, which is being enforced in violation of the many Supreme Court decisions." - 36:27

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3867390173
How does that advocate fraud? He even asks "How are they sticking people in prison" and then makes it clear the IRS enforces the code as it sees it. It's clear by watching the movie people go to jail for not listening to the IRS. All he's doing is as I stated before getting people to question or be skeptical of their government.

What you want to happen is to eliminate, or at the minimum prevent public discussion concerning, any and all material that might bring in to question the government's authority. So much for the principles upon which this country was founded....
Famspear
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Famspear »

SteveSy wrote:What you want to happen is to eliminate, or at the minimum prevent public discussion concerning, any and all material that might bring in to question the government's authority. So much for the principles upon which this country was founded....
Steve, please remember to provide the keyboard warning before coming up with stuff like that.

Steve, in case you hadn't noticed, allowing people, including criminals, to publicly discuss what you call "material that might bring in to question the government's authority" is what this Quatloos forum does. It's what we're doing right now.

Again, trying to mischaracterize the problem gets you nowhere. No one is suggesting that we prevent public discussion of this. (There might be some valid questions about the propriety of showing it on PBS, yes. I don't know the circumstances under which the film was shown in Denver.) I can't speak for anyone else, but I personally would not necessarily be categorically against showing Russo's film -- just as I think it might be appropriate to show Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph des Willens on PBS -- in the proper context of also pointing out what some of the people shown in the film ended up doing to the world. Merely showing these kinds of things on TV does not necessarily mean that the TV station is advocating the message. And merely questioning the film and its maker's motives does not entail "preventing public discussion" about governmental authority -- quite the opposite. We are actually extending and elaborating on the discussion.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet
gezco

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by gezco »

So, I watched a little of this last night. It played opposite the Denver Nuggets game, so I flicked back and forth. They did flash a slide at the beginning about how the views expressed may not be the views of KBDI.

The hostess did read a couple of comments. One comment disagreeing with the film and about 3 supporting it. In typical air headed hostess fashion, she tried to make no judgment on the validity of “flim”. Instead, she spewed some garbage about your donations can help KBDI present both sides of controversial issues. It’s really sad. Airing it on public TV elevates that status of the DVD in the mind of some people as something that might actually be worth public debate.

I did manage to catch the part were Sherry Peel Jackson questioned the validity of the Federal Income Tax. As a former agent, I found that part particularly amusing, considering her current living arrangements.

With the exception of the former Commissioner, Mr. Russo failed to show any former IRS agents who disagree with his premise. They’re not that hand to find. I know of several in my area. If you really want to find them, look through the phone book. There will be some listed under Accountants or Tax Preparation.

Speaking of the Commissioner, why did Russo ambush him? The other former IRS appeared to know what was coming and no one offered any real challenge to their assertions. It seems to me that if Mr. Russo really wanted to answer his question, he would have done a better job finding the opposing view. I’m sure several posters who frequent this board would have been more then happy to help him. I didn’t see the part with the commissioner last night, I’m going off memory.

One thing that struck me about the film is how incredibly cheesy it is. What was the point of sticking the camera in random people’s faces asking them if they have seen the law? I know most people don’t read Title 26. Who could have asked that question about almost any law and gotten the result. Who reads laws besides lawyers and politicians? Not a lot of people have read a significant amount of law.

What was the point of the filming at the IRS headquarters? That was just dumb. Of course you can’t just walk up to a government office and start filming employee statements. The interchanges with the security guards were simply a waste of time. You would have gotten the same result walking up to any government office unannounced.

The part with the IRS agents appeared scripted and rehearsed. At least one of them goes on to get convicted of tax fraud, one did get off but ended up paying the tax. The third agent I have no idea what happened to him.

So, to conclude this ramble, I’m left with a feeling of disappointment in PBS. Presenting both sides of the issue would require them to air something that looks at the tax protester movement and critiques their arguments. Reading one statement from a critic of the film doesn’t cut it. Especially when you read 3 statements after that supporting the film. What makes the whole thing worse is that PBS was using 9/11 “truth” videos to entice people to donate. I sincerely hope no one watching this buys into the premise. I hate to see hard working people get dragged down the path of tax protesters. I really am disappointed in PBS. Not for airing it as much as am for the way they presented it. It was presented as if it raised valid questions and had some sort of validity. Tying it in with 9/11 videos was just over the top. Donate $368 and you get:

America: Freedom to Fascism DVD
End of America Book
Washington You’re Fired DVD
Zero: 911 DVD
Oil, Smoke and Mirrors DVD
DVD of Peter Boyles’ 2006 interview with Aaron Russo on Colorado Inside Out Live
One Nation Under Siege DVD
9/11 Press for the Truth
American Blackout DVD

Yeah, that’s presenting both sides. Talk about selling out. I have to admit, I would like to see Peter Boyles interview with Aaron Russo, but there is no way I’m sending money to support this.
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by The Observer »

Stevesy wrote:He even asks "How are they sticking people in prison" and then makes it clear the IRS enforces the code as it sees it. It's clear by watching the movie people go to jail for not listening to the IRS.
A perfect example of TP fuzzy logic. And here is why you are wrong, Steve:

(1) Regardless of how the IRS enforces the code, every TP that has been convicted has received due process and the right to a trial by jury if they desired. Strange that Russo avoids mentioning that point.

(2) People do not go to jail for not listening to the IRS - that is just behavior that is symptomatic of the underlying act. There is no criminal code that specifies refusing to listen to the IRS is punishable by law. People go to jail because they refused to file returns and/or pay the tax knowing that they had an duty to do so under the law and did this willfully. They went to jail because they were found guilty of breaking those laws.

(3) Implying that the IRS' authority and responsibility of enforcing the tax codes is the reason for why people are going to jail is nonsensical. You might as well claim that the reason you receive speeding tickets in Houston is because the Houston police department is enforcing the law as they see it. Of course they are - that is their responsibility and duty to enforce the laws. And you have the right to appeal that enforcement in a court of law if you don't agree. And you could win the case if you can show that the officer didn't have cause to issue a ticket. It has happened. Likewise with the IRS. If you think that the auditor or collector got it wrong in terms of enforcing the code, you get the chance to challenge that in the judicial system.

It's like Famspear said - you resent the government and have resorted to bashing them for anything that they do, even if they have the authority and law on their side to do so. I fully expect you now to revive your argument about how the government is corrupt and the courts are stacked against the taxpayer.
"I could be dead wrong on this" - Irwin Schiff

"Do you realize I may even be delusional with respect to my income tax beliefs? " - Irwin Schiff
gezco

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by gezco »

If you google Peter Boyles Aaron Russo you can find that interview on YouTube. I watched it. Be forwarded, it’s a complete waste of time. Pete does a lay down. I’d call it a softball interview, but that would be an insult to anyone who has ever picked up a softball. Peter asks Russo if he “pays his taxes”. Russo’s response: “I file”. No real follow up, no mention of Russo’s tax troubles, they just moved on. That was about the toughest question of the day. They proceed to take calls from a series of Russo supporters, mostly anarchists and tax protesters. Russo claimed near the end that the women’s lib movement was financed by the Rockefellers so the government could tax women and raise their children. I hadn’t heard that one before.
RyanMcC

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by RyanMcC »

SteveSy wrote: How does that advocate fraud?
Because he is saying not to obey the law, because the law is (in his opinion) unconstitutional.
SteveSy wrote:He even asks "How are they sticking people in prison" and then makes it clear the IRS enforces the code as it sees it. It's clear by watching the movie people go to jail for not listening to the IRS.
Where in the "documentary" does Russo say "you should obey the (unconstitutional) law, because you will go to jail if you don't." ? He doesn't, he says the law is unconstitutional and you shouldn't obey it.
SteveSy wrote:All he's doing is as I stated before getting people to question or be skeptical of their government.
He did a lousy job of it. I could have achieved that goal making the documentary myself, and I wouldn't have to fill the documentary with lies to do it. His lies are so blatent it will have the effect of making people question or be skeptical of anyone who questions the government.
SteveSy wrote:What you want to happen is to eliminate, or at the minimum prevent public discussion concerning, any and all material that might bring in to question the government's authority. So much for the principles upon which this country was founded....
You have got to be kidding me..

"Freedom to Fascism" is so bad it reinforces the government's authority. To anybody that knows a thing about the topic you see nothing but blatent lie after blatent lie in the film, it's non-stop.

If I were a conspiracy theorist I would say the film was produced by the Illuminati to lower the IQ of every small-government advocate so when they discuss politics they come across as drooling idiots. The people who don't believe the film will see the film and think every small government person believes those things, or lies just as much, and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.
Lasagna

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Lasagna »

SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie? It wouldn't surprise me if none of you have watched it completely but insist on offering your comments as to its contents. If any of you actually have please identify where is advocates fraud. The movie merely asks a lot of questions that seemingly have answers contrary to popular belief. At no point does it advocate not paying taxes or not filing.
I've never read "The Protocols of the Elder's of Zion" either, but I don't need to. I can still confidently state that there is no international Jewish conspiracy to enslave non-Jews and that Jews don't, and have never, drank the blood of Christian children as part of the Passover ritual.

I also don't need to watch "Freedom to Fascism" to know that it is the same level of garbage. Other people in this thread have explained why the movie is garbage, but I don't really see the point. Tax protesters - and I'm counting you among their number, Steve, even though sometimes you seem to back away from it - are immune to facts. The theories FtF espouses - most obviously, that there is no law requiring the payment of income taxes - have been debunked countless times. The "Protocols" have been proven, over and over and over, to be fraudulent. To the followers of each, though, "proof," "facts" and "truth" don't matter. You want to believe this nonsense, so you'll buy into it even thought it's clearly absurd. You try to justify it by saying that it "merely asks a lot of questions that seemingly have answers contrary to popular belief," but it doesn't. It goes far beyond that by specifically endorsing a preposterous fallacy - that there is no law requiring the payment of income tax (or in the case of the Protocols, the existence of a "Jewish conspiracy").

It doesn't "at the very most ... entice someone to question or be skeptical of their government." It suggests that there is no law requiring the payment of income tax. Nobody here is trying to "eliminate, or at the minimum prevent public discussion concerning, any and all material that might bring in to question the government's authority." We are pointing out how foolish it is to believe that there is no law requiring the payment of income tax. YOU like to believe that they are the same thing, but they aren't.

You have to understand what you sound like when you say these things. Telling us that by rejecting FtF we are somehow rejecting ALL ideas which question the government makes us laugh. It's as dumb as a Holocaust denier telings their opponents that they are slaves to a false history imposed by a Zionist conspiracy. It's exactly that absurd. Sorry, buddy.
Last edited by Lasagna on Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Doktor Avalanche »

SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie? It wouldn't surprise me if none of you have watched it completely but insist on offering your comments as to its contents. If any of you actually have please identify where is advocates fraud. The movie merely asks a lot of questions that seemingly have answers contrary to popular belief. At no point does it advocate not paying taxes or not filing.
Yes, I've seen the movie - it's crap. Those questions he asks have been shredded over and over again.

As much as I [sarcasm]hate[/sarcasm] to disagree with you, Steve, that movie does indeed advocate non-payment or non-filing of taxes by starting from the premise there is no law requiring you to do either.
The laissez-faire argument relies on the same tacit appeal to perfection as does communism. - George Soros
SteveSy

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by SteveSy »

Doktor Avalanche wrote:
SteveSy wrote:Have any of you actually watched the movie? It wouldn't surprise me if none of you have watched it completely but insist on offering your comments as to its contents. If any of you actually have please identify where is advocates fraud. The movie merely asks a lot of questions that seemingly have answers contrary to popular belief. At no point does it advocate not paying taxes or not filing.
Yes, I've seen the movie - it's crap. Those questions he asks have been shredded over and over again.

As much as I [sarcasm]hate[/sarcasm] to disagree with you, Steve, that movie does indeed advocate non-payment or non-filing of taxes by starting from the premise there is no law requiring you to do either.
Whatever....that's like saying that if someone says the war on terror is illegal it advocates running off to Canada instead of showing up for military transport to Iraq.

Using your logic you couldn't say the government does anything wrong otherwise you're advocating to violate the law in which you believe the government is misrepresenting or misapplying. You guys lose all sense of reasoning when it comes to trying to shut down people who disagree with the government concerning the legality of collecting some taxes. It's funny how you bash TP's for their silly logic and then you resort to using absurd logic to condemn TP's.

As I've always said, this group is just as bad as the worst of TP's you're just on the other side of the fence. You're both fringe lunatics.
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Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Demosthenes »

You guys lose all sense of reasoning when it comes to trying to shut down people who disagree with the government
Have you noticed, Stevie, that no one here is making fun of Melissa Etheridge for saying no to paying taxes? Her stand is true civil disobedience and no one here makes fun of or denigrades her decision.

Tax defiers, in comparison, want to take the same stand but rely on twisted (and fundamentally stupid) logic in hopes that they can have the same tax free result without any of those pesky consequences.

I respect Etheridge's stand. I find tax defiers repulsively dishonest.

The difference is huge, but I guess it's too subtle for you to understand.
Demo.
SteveSy

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by SteveSy »

Demosthenes wrote:
You guys lose all sense of reasoning when it comes to trying to shut down people who disagree with the government
Have you noticed, Stevie, that no one here is making fun of Melissa Etheridge for saying no to paying taxes? Her stand is true civil disobedience and no one here makes fun of or denigrades her decision.

Tax defiers, in comparison, want to take the same stand but rely on twisted (and fundamentally stupid) logic in hopes that they can have the same tax free result without any of those pesky consequences.

I respect Etheridge's stand. I find tax defiers repulsively dishonest.

The difference is huge, but I guess it's too subtle for you to understand.
So you think its stupid, you know what I'm absolutely sure a lot of people would think the lengths you guys go to slash and burn anyone questioning the validity of income taxes and thereby support the IRS is repulsive also.
Last edited by SteveSy on Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Demosthenes
Grand Exalted Keeper of Esoterica
Posts: 5773
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

Post by Demosthenes »

SteveSy wrote:So you think its stupid, you know what I'm absolutely sure a lot of people would think the lengths you guys go to slash and burn anyone questioning the validity of income taxes and thereby support the IRS is repulsive also.
Why would I care what tax cheats think?
Demo.