All_Empires_Fall wrote:Fortunately, there are a plethora of individuals within this country who are not as naieve and impressionable as you quakloos members think they are.
Baloney.
Unfortunately, however, they are greatly outweighed by the number of idiots who, well, are.
Baloney.
To any sensible viewer, the movie basically proves two essential points:
1.) There are US citizens everywhere, from all different levels of interest, be it elected government officials, federal employees, or just your ordinary tax payer, who believe that our tax system is equivocally un-American, that the IRC and enforcement of it can and does violate those citizens rights, and that this supposedly "free" country has a long and bloody history of abuse of power.
Well, sorry, but regardless of what some people may believe, the IRC -- and enforcement of the IRC -- does not in and of itself violate any rights.
Regarding a history of abuse of power, there have been abuses of power throughout history. Yes. So what?
2.) If you go against the IRS, you are going to be pursued, you will most likely be charged, and you will probably go to jail.
Wrong. I "go against the IRS" every day. We have a whole system of people who "go against the IRS" all the time. But we do it within the law. And we have an entire system of resolving disputes within the IRS. And if we cannot resolve the dispute administratively within the IRS, we have a whole system for ultimate resolution. It's call the court system.
The vast majority of disagreements or problems with the IRS are not criminal. They're simply disputes over what is taxable, what is deductible, etc., etc. You are quite wrong.
Now, let's look at the criminal side. If you
commit tax crimes, you
might be charged. However, it is relatively unlikely that you will be charged. Very, very few people are charged with federal tax crimes. And as far as convictions go, only about 2 to 3 thousand people in the entire country are convicted each year.
So, you are quite wrong. If you go against the IRS, you will
NOT "most likely be charged." There is very little likelihood of your being charged.
There is no way in hell I would defy the IRS by proposing a frivolous tax protestor argument within a court room. Why? Because its stupid, and I would lose.
Good. And the reason you would lose is that proposing a frivolous tax protester argument within a court room (or on a tax return) violates the rules. And there is another reason why you shouldn't do it: Because it's morally wrong. That's my opinion.
But that doesn't mean we should all just sit on our hands and say "oh well, thats the law and thats that. Even if it makes no sense, seems incredibly unfair, and completely violates any privacy I might like to have, I guess I'll just shut up and do as Im told."
Yeah, well, no one is asking that you just shut up and do as you're told. What we are suggesting is that you
follow the law. That means reporting your income according to the law -- not according to what you think the law is, but according to what the law really is -- and paying your tax without taking legally frivolous positions.
Tax protestor arguments have proven to be frivolous in court, but that doesnt mean people are going to just give up. Thats what you nutjobs at quakloos still don't seem to get.
No, you are quite wrong. We do not think that tax protesters are "just going to give up." Why would we think that? And why are you throwing this kind of rhetoric into the discussion? Stay on topic.
You immediately brand anyone who wants change within the tax system with this absurd label of "tax protestor."
No, we do not brand anyone who wants change within the tax system with the label "tax protester." Again, why are you throwing this kind of rhetoric into the discussion? You are quite wrong.
In a world full of ever-growing complexities, ideally, I think a free country ruled by a government that is for the people and by the people, would be trying to make life less complex for its citizens, not more. But thats exactly what the IRC and the multitude of new laws and regulations we are bombarded with each year, does.
Agreed. The Internal Revenue Code and the related regulations are frustratingly and needlessly complex. And guess what? You yourself, and most people like you, don't even have to deal with that complexity in any meaningful way.
I'm the one who has to deal with it!! The average citizen, who is not a tax practitioner, has
absolutely no concept of the mind-numbing complexity of the federal tax law.
You think you know what complexity is? You don't. The average American's exposure to the complexity of the federal income tax law does not extend beyond the tax forms and instructions. That stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.
So, when I hear anti-government types rail about the complexity of the tax law, you know, I'm sorry, but I don't have a lot of sympathy.
The United States doesn't give a d*mn about its citizens, it is a Fascist state with a revolving head.
Oh, boo-hoo.
Its not going to last, I can assure you of that. History has taught us over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, that when a government tightens its fist over those it means to rule, those people revolt. Its going to happen, its just a matter of when, and how. And the only reason it hasn't yet is because of the fear that the US government installs within every one of its citizens, but you know what, you can only push people around so much.
Gee, thanks for the history lesson. Thanks for the lesson in politics. You might be right. But you're not telling us anthing we don't already know.
Now you will proceed to say "I'm whacky" or that "I'm an anarchist" or that "Im the traitor and thank God the people who take oaths to protect this country care more about it than me" but in the end I will be proven correct.
No, I will not proceed to call you "whacky" or an "anarchist." And by the way, the term "traitor" is a term that is thrown around very loosely by many, many tax protesters. Many people improperly use the term "traitor" as being roughly equivalent to "someone I really don't like at all" or "someone with whose views I strongly disagree." Using that term in that way is way over top.
Now, having already ripped your statements apart, I would also say that I think this latest post by you is much better than your earlier ones. And just because I disagree with some of the things you write -- and just because I state my disagreement forcefully -- does not mean that you don't make at least some arguably valid (although somewhat tangential) points. Thanks.
"My greatest fear is that the audience will beat me to the punch line." -- David Mamet