Freedom to Fascism on PBS last night

[Demosthenes]

The world has changed in 100 years, Stevie. We have things like electricity, airplanes, instant communication, advanced weapons that can kill millions from a distance, a global economy, and so on.

Stop trying to live in an idealized past. It's useless.

[Lasagna]

If you weren't so selfish and considered the fact that people like you enable our government to screw our children and their children so you can claim happiness we would be much better off. You're like a parent that lives far beyond their means getting credit everywhere in your kids names. Sure you buy them nice stuff and you live in a nice house and drive your nice car but at what cost? When your kids finally get on their own they'll have little trying to pay for all the happiness you bought on their dime. Yes, it's so admirable that you live so well.

Amazing. When I pay my taxes, I'm being selfish; when you refuse to pay your share, you're bringing us closer to utopia. You've really opened my eyes, Steve.

[SteveSy]

If you weren't so selfish and considered the fact that people like you enable our government to screw our children and their children so you can claim happiness we would be much better off. You're like a parent that lives far beyond their means getting credit everywhere in your kids names. Sure you buy them nice stuff and you live in a nice house and drive your nice car but at what cost? When your kids finally get on their own they'll have little trying to pay for all the happiness you bought on their dime. Yes, it's so admirable that you live so well.

Amazing. When I pay my taxes, I'm being selfish; when you refuse to pay your share, you're bringing us closer to utopia. You've really opened my eyes, Steve.

I never said not paying taxes brings us closer to utopia. However, paying income taxes does little. I guess if you look at it from the perspective of a organized crime syndicate that you won't get your knees cracked and you'll get protection against the other thieves if you pay the extortion racket then I guess you can claim you'll be happier.

All the income tax does is enable the government to amass mountains of debt. Debt that is used to purchase your happiness at our children expense. We might not have everything we have now if it weren't for income taxes but then what we did have wouldn't have a government debt that equates to over 200k per household either. Just my opinion, but you can look back in history and see we never had a sustained debt as large as we have now. At best you might find where we went in to deep debt fighting a world war.

You're selfish every time you request any type of government assistance and every time you proclaim how great your life is because of government. You won't be paying for it, our kids and their kids will. What about them? Why should they be stuck paying for our great way of life?

[Lasagna]

If you weren't so selfish and considered the fact that people like you enable our government to screw our children and their children so you can claim happiness we would be much better off. You're like a parent that lives far beyond their means getting credit everywhere in your kids names. Sure you buy them nice stuff and you live in a nice house and drive your nice car but at what cost? When your kids finally get on their own they'll have little trying to pay for all the happiness you bought on their dime. Yes, it's so admirable that you live so well.

Amazing. When I pay my taxes, I'm being selfish; when you refuse to pay your share, you're bringing us closer to utopia. You've really opened my eyes, Steve.

I never said not paying taxes brings us closer to utopia. However, paying income taxes does little. I guess if you look at it from the perspective of a organized crime syndicate that you won't get your knees cracked and you'll get protection against the other thieves if you pay the extortion racket then I guess you can claim you'll be happier.

All the income tax does is enable the government to amass mountains of debt. Debt that is used to purchase your happiness at our children expense. We might not have everything we have now if it weren't for income taxes but then what we did have wouldn't have a government debt that equates to over 200k per household either. Just my opinion, but you can look back in history and see we never had a sustained debt as large as we have now. At best you might find where we went in to deep debt fighting a world war.

You're selfish every time you request any type of government assistance and every time you proclaim how great your life is because of government. You won't be paying for it, our kids and their kids will. What about them? Why should they be stuck paying for our great way of life?

Steve, this is boring - nothing you said really means anything. I'm selfish "every time I request any type of government assistance"? What the hell does that mean? You're telling me that I'm selfish if I call the fire department when I'm trapped in a burning building. Yes, I suppose that's "selfish," but I'm comfortable with that sort of selfishness. Are you saying you're not?

And I'm selfish "every time I proclaim how great my life is because of government?" That statement is completely meaningless. Are you saying that if I approve of a government action, I'm being selfish? So if I approve of added health benefits for veterans, I'm somehow being selfish, even though I'm not a vet? If I approve of building a new school, I'm selfish? Or does it only apply if I'm declaring approval for a government action that directly helps me? If I approve of New York building a subway to the upper east side, thus making it easier for me to get around the city, that's selfish, and that's unacceptable?

You are, in essence, telling me that the only "acceptable" belief is complete anarchy. And I've got news for you, Steve : I suspect that, if government disappeared, you would pretty quickly find yourself being pushed around by someone stronger and more capable than yourself. That's what happens when government disappears. It's not a happy little fairy utopia.

Other questions: how does an income tax "enable the government to amass a mountain of debt?" Taxes provide income for the government. And how do you equate collecting taxes from people in the present with placing our children in debt? Collecting taxes now, if spent properly, prevents placing our children is debt. And you still haven't explained how paying taxes is "selfish."

[SteveSy]

Other questions: how does an income tax "enable the government to amass a mountain of debt?" Taxes provide income for the government. And how do you equate collecting taxes from people in the present with placing our children in debt? Collecting taxes now, if spent properly, prevents placing our children is debt. And you still haven't explained how paying taxes is "selfish."

The fire dept. and local police are not federal. Schools shouldn't have federal assistance whatsoever. States shouldn't be getting federal assistance for anything IMO, it only allows them to be extorted whenever federal politicians want something.

The government could not amass such a debt without directly picking the pockets of people. If it were tariffs people could simply avoid them for the most part. It's income taxes that are the problem, not taxes in general. Income taxes defeat the natural balance of things. It was well known at the time of the ratification of the constitution that over taxation was self defeating. People would just stop buying it if it were taxed to high. People aren't going to stop making a living if income taxes get to high. The government's limit to borrow is now directly tied to America's earning capacity. There's virtually no stopping how much they can spend as long as they can stick their fingers directly in your pocket. There needs to be more in play than just hoping you elected the right guy. Politicians are out for themselves, you can see that by how much pork there is in every bill, even bills specifically created to solve emergency needs. They buy votes these days....and that's the most corrupt thing of all.

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

The government could not amass such a debt without directly picking the pockets of people.

That's who stole my wallet!

If it were tariffs people could simply avoid them for the most part.

Other when you bought consumer goods and all that leaded wig and face powder we Americans adore.

It's income taxes that are the problem, not taxes in general. Income taxes defeat the natural balance of things.

That explains global warming... glad we cleared that up.

It was well known at the time of the ratification of the constitution that over taxation was self defeating.

Is that why Americans had to pay more taxes directly after the Revolution than before?

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

It was well known at the time of the ratification of the constitution that over taxation was self defeating.

Is that why Americans had to pay more taxes directly after the Revolution than before?

It's also why the Founding Fathers included the power to tax in the Constitution.

[LOBO]

All the income tax does is enable the government to amass mountains of debt. Debt that is used to purchase your happiness at our children expense.

And here I thought that spending more that what comes in is what causes debt.

[SteveSy]

All the income tax does is enable the government to amass mountains of debt. Debt that is used to purchase your happiness at our children expense.

And here I thought that spending more that what comes in is what causes debt.

And I suppose if you had an income of 50k you could borrow 1 million? I know it's really tough to use that noggin of yours but the more you bring in and the more you have direct access to the more you can borrow....common sense sir. The government is limited by the same just on a much bigger scale.Sure they can print money but no one is going to buy treasury securities unless they know the government has a means to collect revenue. In the case of the income tax they know the government has direct access to the earning capacity of the nation.

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

All the income tax does is enable the government to amass mountains of debt. Debt that is used to purchase your happiness at our children expense.

And here I thought that spending more that what comes in is what causes debt.

And I suppose if you had an income of 50k you could borrow 1 million? I know it's really tough to use that noggin of yours but the more you bring in and the more you have direct access to the more you can borrow....common sense sir. The government is limited by the same just on a much bigger scale.Sure they can print money but no one is going to buy treasury securities unless they know the government has a means to collect revenue. In the case of the income tax they know the government has direct access to the earning capacity of the nation.

(emphasis added)

People are buying treasury securities right now that offer no yield. If there was no confidence in the government this wouldn't be happening.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/bon ... htm?csp=34

[SteveSy]

People are buying treasury securities right now that offer no yield. If there was no confidence in the government this wouldn't be happening.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/bon ... htm?csp=34

Exactly my point...which you mysteriously seemed to have missed. They wouldn't buy them unless they knew the government had the means to pay them. They know the government can pay them because it is only limited by the earning capacity of the nation.

Indirect taxation is no longer self regulating, with the preposterous idea that income taxes, the ultimate means of collecting revenue, falls under a perpetual graduated indirect tax the government has almost a limitless credit line.