Who is the HE?

Open discussion forum about NESARA, Dove of Oneness, Patrick Bellringer, Truth Warrior and all the others spinning the NESARA tale. Includes the latest rumors about the Galacticans comings to Earth and Jennifer's blood ozonation machine.

Moderator: Deep Knight

co-shoot
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:57 am
Location: na

Who is the HE?

Post by co-shoot »

"He who hold the gold makes the rules"

Many years ago an old now long since deceased Apache warned me: "the devil owns the gold".
Conclusion: He don't plan on giving it up.

From another circa the same time told me the devil told him...."take it all or take none",
Conclusion: Power stays where he put it.

So as a humble recreational gold prospector I just keep it very simple keep digging a little of the yellow stuff in the dirt... :wink: ...LOL...bonds are :twisted: just what they always were ...worthless little pieces of papper. So untill the gold moves into a safe nuetral :| harbor....well good luck.
Number Six
Hereditary Margrave of Mooloosia
Posts: 1231
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Connecticut, "The Constitution State"

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Number Six »

If you're asking who is "he" who owns the gold, the answer is first governments, secondly millionaires and billionaires who actually have physical control of the metal. The Bible says that God owns all the gold and the cattle on a thousand hills, but the New Testament was critical of pm hoarders who ripped people off or didn't share what they had with those, especially their families, when they saw the need but turned away. It's worth checking out Kitco's daily videos on the pms, of large caches of the yellow metal. It makes any gold bug look like a penny ante player in comparison.

The golden rule goes back thousands of years. This cynical version is only partly true especially in an age of transparency and accountability.
'There are two kinds of injustice: the first is found in those who do an injury, the second in those who fail to protect another from injury when they can.' (Roman. Cicero, De Off. I. vii)

'Choose loss rather than shameful gains.' (Chilon Fr. 10. Diels)
co-shoot
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:57 am
Location: na

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by co-shoot »

Another readers response>recieved by email,

"I never have thought that the human world was controlled by God...God and the Bible are the only shield we have to stave off the evil in the world and protect our souls...God gave Lucifer control until the Second Coming to reap as many souls as he could...that's why we have free will...and we will be judged after the second coming...whatever we receive from O, if anything, must be used for good deeds or we will fall into the trap of Satan to corrupt the world completely...Looking around you can see that Lucifer is gaining so the time must be close for the Second Coming of Christ. When Jesus first came among us He gave us the tools to stave off the corruption of our souls, but we are weak and easily foiled so it is imperative that we fight against evil especially in our own lives."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote Number Six Re: Who is the HE?
by Number Six » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:47 pm


The golden rule goes back thousands of years. This cynical version is only partly true especially in an age of transparency and accountability.

Are you sure your version of the Golden Rule is the right one? Thats ok with me what you said Six , :thinking: :?:
Deep Knight
Posts: 5397
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
Location: Washington DC

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Deep Knight »

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.

Mister City Policeman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I'm crying, I'm crying.
I'm crying, I'm crying.

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob.

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan
From standing in the English rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob.

Expert textpert choking smokers,
Don't you thing the joker laughs at you?
See how they smile like pigs in a sty,
See how they snied.
I'm crying.

Semolina pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob.
Goo goo g'joob g'goo goo g'joob g'goo...

-John Lennon
"Follow the Money"
Deep Knight
Posts: 5397
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
Location: Washington DC

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Deep Knight »

MacHaffie's first post in 5 days on the RAP-NESARA forum was about this also.

MacArthur, Marcos, and Black Eagle Trust - Who Has The Gold?

Rumormill News
MacArthur, Marcos, and Black Eagle Trust - Who Has The Gold?
Posted By: Lion <Send E-Mail>
Date: Sunday, 12-Dec-2010 09:49:00 -----------------------
To some 'experienced hands', the story of WWII era Japanese plunder stashed in the Philippines is old news.
Just the same, it is a story that bears repeating over again, because the overwhelming real value of the gold today - which continues to skyrocket.
"He who hold the gold makes the rules".

Lion
Read: 'Gold warriors: America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold"
------------------------
http://alcuinbramerton.blogspot.com/
--------------------
EuroZone governments in secret scramble to buy Japanese 57-series gold bonds to back failing Euro
http://stevebeckow.com/2010/12/07/weekl ... -province/
Only one person has successfully cashed a 57-series Japanese gold bond before.
That was the US Secretary of State, Alexander Haig, working on behalf of the Paraguayan government and supported by the Reagan White House and the Kissinger-Bush syndicate.
The single bond had a face value, at that time, of $500 million.
The government of Paraguay bought the bond from First Hanover Securities, in New York City, on Wednesday 20th November 1991.
----------------------
More here. (Excerpts from 'Gold warriors: America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold')
--------------------
Reviews of:
'Gold warriors: America's Secret Recovery of Yamashita's Gold', By Sterling and Peggy Seagrave
----------------------
In 1945, US intelligence officers in manila discovered that the Japanese had hidden large quantities of gold bullion and other looted treasure in the Philippines.
President Truman decided to recover the gold but to keep its riches secret.
These would be combined with treasure recovered inside Japan during the US occupation, and with Nazi loot recovered in Europe, to create a worldwide American political action fund to fight communism.
Overseen by General MacArthur, President Truman and John Foster Dulles, this "Black Gold" gave Washington virtually limitless, unaccountable funds, providing an asset base to reinforce the treasuries of America's allies, to bribe political and military leaders, and to manipulate elections in foreign countries for more than fifty years.
Drawing on a vast range of original documents and thousands of hours of interviews, Gold Warriors exposes one of the great state secrets of the twentieth century
Editorial Review - Reed Business Information (c) 2003
-------------------
The Seagraves, bestselling authors (Lords of the Rim, etc.), contend that Japan systematically looted the entire continent of Asia during WWII, seizing billions in precious metals, gems and artworks.
Further, according to the authors, from war's end to the present, the looted treasure, used by President Truman to create a secret slush fund to fight communism, has had a malignant effect on American and Asian politics.
The Seagraves assert that the Japanese imperial family, along with Ferdinand Marcos, every American president from Harry Truman to George W. Bush, and numerous sinister figures on the American hard right have been tainted and in many cases utterly corrupted by the loot.
Postwar efforts to recover and exploit the treasure, according to the Seagraves, involved murders, dishonest deals and cover-ups.
Readers who want to examine the full range of sources for this controversial account are referred in the book to the authors' Web site, where two CDs containing "more than 900 megabytes" of supporting documentation are available.
But a paradox affecting conspiracy histories such as this one is the authors' frequent insistence that the malefactors have suppressed relevant evidence.
Conceptual difficulties of this sort make it impossible for the lay reader to judge this book's credibility, even while one is swept up in the high-intensity story the Seagraves tell.
(Sept.) FYI:
The authors claim that in consequence of their revealing the existence of the slush fund and its resulting "global network of corruption," they have received "veiled death threats."
-----------------
Earth-Shattering, Faith-Shaking, Well-Documented Deceit,
September 25, 2003

Robert D Steele, Amazon book review:
This book is earth-shattering and faith-shaking, a well-documented tale of deceit at the highest levels of the US government.
So controversial and potentially explosive are the findings of this book, to wit, that the White House recovered most of the Nazi and Japanese loot and created a secret slush fund for covert political operations world-wide, that the authors go the extra mile and offer, at a nominal price, two CD-ROMS containing 60,000 pages of supporting documentation including the Japanese treasure maps used by the US to recover the gold and other valuables.
Major players include Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, and Nixon, both Allen and John Foster Dulles, Douglas MacArthur, John McCloy, and the famous unconventional warrior Edward Lansdale.
What we learn from this book is that those writing about "blowback" (the consequences of unwise US actions) have barely scratched the surface.
What we learn is that rather than truly seeking to help the Japanese, Chinese, and other looted nations recover in the aftermath of WWII, the most senior leaders of the US government, no doubt with the best of intentions, actually conspired with Nazi bankers and the Japanese imperial family to create a Black Eagle Trust controlled by a very select hand-picked cabal in Washington.
Originally used to fight communism, the Black Eagle Trust, according to the authors and as thoroughly documented by the book and the two CD-ROMS (which I am happy to have in hand), quickly became a global slush fund used to bribe national leaders and manipulate elections around the world.
This fund remains in existence today, making the Swiss Holocaust funds seem like loose-change.
According to the authors, major banks are "addicted" to the funds and would face collapse if public investigations resulted in a forced return of this gold and related certificates to the rightful owners.
The authors have produced a magnificent work of both scholarship and investigative journalism.
They document the extent of Japanese looting of Korea (beginning in 1895) and China as well as the other countries in the "co-prosperity sphere."
They document the manner in which Japan hid most of the gold in the Philippines (some in Indonesia), and were forced to leave it there from 1943 onwards, when US submarine interdiction became too effective to risk shipments homeward.
I found the level of detail in this book to be quite gripping.
The ingenious nature of the Japanese burial sites, with caverns below the more obvious tunnels, with sea-water protection, with maps created in reverse--and the in-bred cruelty of the Japanese, thinking nothing of burying all of the US and other national slave labor *and the Japanese engineers* alive as the final stage of protecting the looted treasure, leave one stunned.
The authors document the central role played by Lansdale in recognizing the opportunity and then briefing MacArthur and then President Truman.
According to the authors, the architects of the Black Eagle Trust were three advisors to President's Roosevelt's Secretary of War, Henry Stimson: John McCloy (later head of the World Bank), Robert Lovett (later Secretary of Defense), and Robert Anderson (later Secretary of the Treasury).
They made the case to Roosevelt, and presumably to Truman after Roosevelt died, that it would be impractical to return the looted gold to the rightful owners, in part because many of the looted countries were now under Soviet control.
The authors, who conducted many interviews in support of the work, including interviews of former CIA deputy director Ray Cline, who they say was involved with Lansdale and the gold in the 1940's and remained involved with the black gold through the 1980's, provide copies of documents showing the redirection of the looted gold to 176 bank accounts in 42 countries.
The gold was then used to support the creation of gold bearer certificates that were in turned used to bribe the most senior officials around the world.
The authors tell a shocking tale of how quickly MacArthur chose to collaborate with the very leadership of Japan that declared war on the USA and was responsible for genocide and looting in
Asia on a scale rarely achieved by anyone else.
Bringing the story up to date, the authors show how prior attempts to investigate the Black Eagle Trust have led to the ruin of individuals such as Norbert Schlei, at one time deputy attorney general to Presidents Kennedy and Johnson.
While I have no direct knowledge and cannot be certain myself, I believe the authors have provided a sufficiently compelling case to warrant an international investigation concurrently with a General Accounting Office investigation to be chartered by Congress with unlimited supeona powers specifically directed against classified personalities and archives.
If this story is true, and I personally think that it is, then the US government, in active collusion with the very people the American people fought to defeat in WWII, has been guilty of fraud and depravity on a global scale and against the best interests of both the American people, and the against the rightful owners of the looted gold and other treasures.
The authors may well have uncovered the last really big secret of the post-WW II era, and in so doing, opened the way for a restoration of the balance of power among diverse nations, and a sharp delimitation of the abuses that appear to characterize American leadership when it thinks it can rely on secret gold and stolen oil to engage in imperial adventures and domestic improprieties.
As an American citizen and voter, and as a person of faith who believes that we must do unto others as we would have them do unto us, I find this book to be shocking, credible, and a basis for popular outrage and demands for truth and reconciliation.
-----------------
Absolutely astonishing book - and while one fellow above bashed the supporting references, I note that he didn't delve into the 2 CDs of supporting material (such as scans of maps made by the Japanese military showing where the gold was hidden in the Phillipines & all the boobytraps).
A lot of this makes sense, intuitively.
For example, where in the heck did Ferdinand & Imelda Marcos get all of that wealth?
I've read that they "looted the Phillipine people" - hello? Where did the Phillipine people get billions of dollars (American) to loot in the first place?
Secondly, if you read more about how the world's economy was changed fundamentally after World War II, this book provides some missing pieces.
It's a brilliant strategy, really - the USA essentially cornering the market on gold, forcing the rest of the world to adopt gold (and pegging it to the dollar) as the new standard, and thus, you are left with (for all practical purposes) endless funds for covert wars against Communist/ leftist regimes.
Why people are shocked by this is puzzling.
In the 1950's and 1960's it wasn't considered any sort of problem to be meddling in the world's politics; and the history of US involvement repressing elections in Latin America is well documented.
And we won't even get into some of the covert actions (like Iran-Contra) that we KNOW about, so an educated student of history has to assume there are far more details than we have even been told.
Back to the book, the story about how Nixon eventually surrenders control of the secret gold to the Japanese power structure in exchange for covert funds for his presidential campaign sure sounds like the Nixon we are all familiar with.
This is an extraordinary book, one can only wonder how many more details will surface in upcoming years...
----------------------

Posted by John MacHaffie at 6:55 AM 0 comments
"Follow the Money"
Green Lantern

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Green Lantern »

co-shoot wrote:"He who hold the gold makes the rules".
I think I'll modify this a bit to "he who holds the gold believes he makes the rules."

But nowadays, there are others who think:

He who owns the fresh water makes the rules.
He who controls the oil makes the rules.
He who controls the media makes the rules.
He who believes in my religious franchise should make the rules.
He who controls the currency makes the rules.
He who controls nuclear weapons makes the rules.

When they all get together things get quite interesting..... :shock:
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Cathulhu »

GL, everyone thinks they make the rules (but don't tell them it's really me that does).
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold
Green Lantern

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Green Lantern »

Cathulhu wrote:GL, everyone thinks they make the rules (but don't tell them it's really me that does).
:thinking: I was beginning to suspect this might be true.
Cathulhu
Order of the Quatloos, Brevet First Class
Posts: 1257
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Cathulhu »

M'wah-ha-ha-ha-ha! :lol:
Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to. T. Pratchett
Always be a moving target. L.M. Bujold
Deep Knight
Posts: 5397
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
Location: Washington DC

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Deep Knight »

The question of “who he is” (who owns the gold) is based on the assumption that there’s more gold out there than there’s “officially” said to be and someone has control of it. Going through some Beth Trutwin blog posts the other day, there was one which went on about this, as in “they say all the gold in the world would fit into an Olympic size swimming pool and that’s a lie.” I wondered where this came from until I heard Glen Beck yesterday on the radio go on and on about his sponsor “Goldline” and he said that it would fit into two Olympic-sized pools, which is no doubt where she got it (and it says something about who she listens to). Not on the Goldline website, so it may be something Glen simply made-up (he’s been known to do that when he gets on a “roll”).

Well, how much gold is there, or should I say, has been mined? First of all, this can only be estimated because there’s not some sort of “gold audit.” The people who have actually tried to make a good estimate have come up with 3 numbers which are close to each other: 8000, 8187 & 8540 cubic meters. For purposes of argument, let’s use the middle one.

The next problem is the size of an Olympic swimming pool. The one site that addresses this (Answers.com) said that such a pool was “20 meters deep,” which is an obvious error (that would be 62 feet deep). And yes, on this basis 25,000 cubit meters would fit, which is less than 1 pool’s worth. A better estimate would be for a 2 meter deep pool, which hold 2,500 cubic meters or a little less than 1/3 of the world’s gold supply.

Dove once talked about this in an “update” and asserted that most of the ancient gold was hidden by ascendant masters and such, and that the entire amount was 10-100 times this. She referenced the “gold of Egypt” in the bible as being more gold than was said to be existent today.

Exodus Chapter 12 KJV

31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.

32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.

33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.

34 And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.

35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:

36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
If Dove was right, then they would have absconded with more than 165 million Kg (360 million pounds or 7.3 $trillion at today’s prices, chump change for Dove) of gold, which means that even though the Egyptians wouldn’t give the Israelites straw for making bricks, they gave them steroids for their donkeys.

In the gold ol’ days, gold was hard to mine and come by. Anyone who thinks the ancient Egyptians had huge amounts St. Germain hid would believe anything, which I suppose is the NESARA fan base…
"Follow the Money"
Green Lantern

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Green Lantern »

I saw a documentary (History Channel?) that claimed all of the "known," mined gold in the world would only cover an American football field one foot deep, assuming one could collect it all and melt it down.

There is a shut-down mine in Grass Valley, CA, that claims all of the gold mined there over 60 years could make a 7 foot cube. Of course, the amounts were known to the producers.

But...as you say, estimating the entire world's known supply would be a very rough guess at best.
Number Six
Hereditary Margrave of Mooloosia
Posts: 1231
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Connecticut, "The Constitution State"

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Number Six »

co-shoot wrote:Another readers response>recieved by email,

"I never have thought that the human world was controlled by God...God and the Bible are the only shield we have to stave off the evil in the world and protect our souls...God gave Lucifer control until the Second Coming to reap as many souls as he could...that's why we have free will...and we will be judged after the second coming...whatever we receive from O, if anything, must be used for good deeds or we will fall into the trap of Satan to corrupt the world completely...Looking around you can see that Lucifer is gaining so the time must be close for the Second Coming of Christ. When Jesus first came among us He gave us the tools to stave off the corruption of our souls, but we are weak and easily foiled so it is imperative that we fight against evil especially in our own lives."
Isaiah gives this scenario about miserly gold bugs as a warning:

Isa 2:20 In that day men shall cast away their idols of silver, and their idols of gold, which have been made for them to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 to go into the caverns of the rocks, and into the clefts of the ragged rocks, from before the terror of Jehovah, and from the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake mightily the earth.

Ezekiel says this:

"They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin." (7:19)


He/she who has the wealth has a lot of control, and I would rather that Constitutional government have it and bear the responsibility that is carried with wealth, than greedy Capitalists who somehow think that by having guns and gold and girls that they are a success. Ministries and other groups have always distorted Scripture to cater to wealthy members, but by doing so they err from the truth:

1Timothy 6:5:
GOD'S WORD® Translation:
"...and conflict between people whose corrupt minds have been robbed of the truth. They think that a godly life is a way to make a profit."


And while I believe that Lucifer/Satan is a very real entity as the quote inferred, he has no more control than God allows as we see in the book of Job, for example, the devil as prosecuting attorney. Many scholars believe the happy ending in Job was a Rabbinical addition to make us all feel comfortable with the idea "it's a wonderful life" in spite of all the suffering. For many God is like Santa Claus that showers prosperity on "the righteous", while "bad" people become poor and destitute. The early church fathers have much to say about these matters, especially as they saw heresy after heresy develop seeking to capitalize on new converts who were trying to apply their faith in the real world.

How the Bible is interpreted, which verses are emphasized by a particular ministry, demonstrates the validity of a particular theology. Like a faulty compass, a few bad teachings can throw off bearings. There comes a day of reckoning for all. The greatest judgment is borne by those who have been entrusted with the most. And that is why in court, those who fully knew they were doing wrong and had great resources, are often given the most severe penalties.

If you look into the legacy of gold, especially the social and environment consequences of the gold rush of '49, it may change one's esteem for the yellow metal:

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_ ... d_the_Hype
'There are two kinds of injustice: the first is found in those who do an injury, the second in those who fail to protect another from injury when they can.' (Roman. Cicero, De Off. I. vii)

'Choose loss rather than shameful gains.' (Chilon Fr. 10. Diels)
co-shoot
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:57 am
Location: na

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by co-shoot »

Ezekiel says this:

"They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin." (7:19)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thats cool, Josephus said the Jews trapped by Roman Armies just before 70 AD destruction
ate their gold only to be cut open for it. I think I should have some to throw in the street...after all recreational prospecting was for family fun and use.
Green Lantern

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Green Lantern »

Number Six wrote:
co-shoot wrote:Another readers response>recieved by email,

"I never have thought that the human world was controlled by God...God and the Bible are the only shield we have to stave off the evil in the world and protect our souls...God gave Lucifer control until the Second Coming to reap as many souls as he could...that's why we have free will...and we will be judged after the second coming...whatever we receive from O, if anything, must be used for good deeds or we will fall into the trap of Satan to corrupt the world completely...Looking around you can see that Lucifer is gaining so the time must be close for the Second Coming of Christ. When Jesus first came among us He gave us the tools to stave off the corruption of our souls, but we are weak and easily foiled so it is imperative that we fight against evil especially in our own lives."
Isaiah gives this scenario about miserly gold bugs as a warning:

Isa 2:20 In that day men shall cast away their idols of silver, and their idols of gold, which have been made for them to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 to go into the caverns of the rocks, and into the clefts of the ragged rocks, from before the terror of Jehovah, and from the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake mightily the earth.

Ezekiel says this:

"They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin." (7:19)


He/she who has the wealth has a lot of control, and I would rather that Constitutional government have it and bear the responsibility that is carried with wealth, than greedy Capitalists who somehow think that by having guns and gold and girls that they are a success. Ministries and other groups have always distorted Scripture to cater to wealthy members, but by doing so they err from the truth:

1Timothy 6:5:
GOD'S WORD® Translation:
"...and conflict between people whose corrupt minds have been robbed of the truth. They think that a godly life is a way to make a profit."


And while I believe that Lucifer/Satan is a very real entity as the quote inferred, he has no more control than God allows as we see in the book of Job, for example, the devil as prosecuting attorney. Many scholars believe the happy ending in Job was a Rabbinical addition to make us all feel comfortable with the idea "it's a wonderful life" in spite of all the suffering. For many God is like Santa Claus that showers prosperity on "the righteous", while "bad" people become poor and destitute. The early church fathers have much to say about these matters, especially as they saw heresy after heresy develop seeking to capitalize on new converts who were trying to apply their faith in the real world.

How the Bible is interpreted, which verses are emphasized by a particular ministry, demonstrates the validity of a particular theology. Like a faulty compass, a few bad teachings can throw off bearings. There comes a day of reckoning for all. The greatest judgment is borne by those who have been entrusted with the most. And that is why in court, those who fully knew they were doing wrong and had great resources, are often given the most severe penalties.

If you look into the legacy of gold, especially the social and environment consequences of the gold rush of '49, it may change one's esteem for the yellow metal:

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_ ... d_the_Hype
Wow. Off we go on a Bible quoting binge...... :?

Is the sense of these numerous quotes anything more than "don't make materialism/money your idol?" I.e., I don't assume we should switch our holdings to platinum, uranium, palladium or rhodium? :naughty: Nevertheless, I haven't found the Bible to be a particularly useful investment tool in this market nor in resolving the inherent conflict in gold v. inflated fiat currency.
Deep Knight
Posts: 5397
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:42 am
Location: Washington DC

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Deep Knight »

Green Lantern wrote:Wow. Off we go on a Bible quoting binge...... :?

Is the sense of these numerous quotes anything more than "don't make materialism/money your idol?" I.e., I don't assume we should switch our holdings to platinum, uranium, palladium or rhodium? :naughty: Nevertheless, I haven't found the Bible to be a particularly useful investment tool in this market nor in resolving the inherent conflict in gold v. inflated fiat currency.
The "gold of Egypt," don't cha know.

California gold production in the last half of the 19th century roughly tripled the world's quantity of gold (Dove would say I'm a liar, but records and economics confirm this). This raised the relative price of silver (US coins were actually reduced in content) until huge silver strikes in Nevada and Colorado flooded that market. The fluctuating prices drove Europe and the US to adopt a gold-only standard. Later, it became obvious that gold production couldn't possibly keep up with economic growth, so decisions were made that would piss off many people who post on forums such as this. I suggest history, not conspiracy, as a cause. As for keeping your Fiat inflated and current, I suggest you let your friends and family know you would like a compressor and some detailing kits for Christmas.
"Follow the Money"
Green Lantern

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by Green Lantern »

Deep Knight wrote:Later, it became obvious that gold production couldn't possibly keep up with economic growth, so decisions were made that would piss off many people who post on forums such as this. I suggest history, not conspiracy, as a cause.
Agreed. Nearly all the easily obtained gold in the world has been mined making gold a problematic monetary standard (not that there aren't people who will continue to try and control the supply). I think, too, we've reached a point where some of the gold and silver gets recycled in various ways. But, as with any commodity, relative scarcity will raise the price (along w/all the money being printed). I have only token amounts so don't have a horse in this race, but neither do I begrudge the goldbugs their investments.
co-shoot
Pirate Captain
Pirate Captain
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:57 am
Location: na

Re: Who is the HE?

Post by co-shoot »

The Daily Reckoning Presents
The Descent of Money


Bill Bonner
[Reckoning on January 29, 2010 from Paris, France]

Science and technology have produced many wondrous breakthroughs. But there are some things it cannot improve. A kiss from natural lips is still the lover's choice. Baby formula proved no match for the real thing. Ersatz money is a flop too. That last item is not so much a fact as a prediction.

The first modern competition between gold and paper money ended like the pre-modern ones. Gold won. Herewith, a short summary:

A rogue, John Law, was the protagonist of the story. He killed Beau Wilson in a duel. Then, he went on the lam...first to Scotland...then to Amsterdam...and finally to Paris. Like Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernanke, he made himself useful to people in high places - in this case the Duke d'Orleans, who needed money. Law had a way to get it:

"I have discovered the secret of the philosophers' stone," he is said to have remarked, "it is to make gold out of paper."

We need to look no further. Law may have been good with figures; it was at philosophy that he failed. A thing cannot be both one thing and a different thing at the same time. It is either gold. Or it is paper. Rarity and durability give gold value - as money. Paper's most conspicuous properties are just the opposite - it is common...and has a tendency to curl up and blow away.

Law's new, easy money helped France to an economic recovery - or so it seemed. But in the end, the philosophical error caught up with him. Gold has real value. If you can create it at will, why not create more of it? It was just a matter of time before he had created too much. Soon, there was an angry mob outside Law's office on the Rue Quincampoix. People who held his paper gold had come to see it in a different light. Where once they cherished it as paper gold...now they despised it as nothing but paper.

Law's scheme increased France's money supply - including banknotes and shares in his Mississippi company - by 300%. Prices in Paris doubled between 1718 and 1720. Then, when the new money system began to give way, the Duke d'Orleans "cranked up the printing press." By 1721, Law's money was worthless. "Banque" was a dirty word in France for the next 200 years.

The current experiment with paper money began on the 15th of August 1971. Henceforth, said Richard Nixon, foreign countries that wished to exercise their right to trade US dollars for gold could drop dead. From that point forward, the dollar was worth only what someone would give you for it. Philosophers held their breath. But nothing happened. Many have died since, waiting for the dollar to succumb first. Still, the millstones of monetary history may grind slowly, but the more slowly they grind, the more fingers they pinch.

The new paper money standard allowed for a worldwide credit boom - just as in Paris following the establishment of Law's scheme. The US created dollars. Its citizens spent them. The dollars accumulated as reserves all over the world...and every central bank raced to keep up. Soon, the exporters were producing too much. The importers were consuming too much. And there was too much money and credit everywhere.

The Japanese economy was the first to blow up - in 1989. The tech sector on Wall Street was next to go - in 1999. Finally, in 2007, the planet-wide bubble popped. Suddenly, the whole world was Japan. And now, every nation in Christendom, to say nothing of the others, is following Law's example. All issue paper gold - in the form of bills, notes, and bonds - as if they were the Banque Royale. Europe is estimated to need $2.2 trillion in deficit funding this year. America will need at least a trillion more. If the depression deepens, maybe $2 trillion. How long can this go on? Where will it lead?

"There are no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion," wrote Ludwig von Mises. "The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved."

On Tuesday, the S&P rating agency issued a warning. If Japan continues in the direction it is going, it will have Hell to pay. Japan leads the way into the future. And into a monetary minefield. Her current deficit - a record - is more than her tax revenue. And her public debt is nearly 7 times as great. Her feet grow larger.

Regards,

Bill Bonner,
for The Daily Reckoning