So What Legitimate Ways Can Someone Be Excluded From Taxes?

[LPC]

I found a court decision in which the lack of "political jurisdiction" was raised in an appeal from a Tax Court decision. It was our friend John Anthony, Malan, who was sanctioned $2,000 for his frivolous appeal.

[grixit]

And remember, always use the phrase "perp judge" when making your statements in court. That will let them know what's what.

[jaydee]

... If it necessary to prove that you were a citizen, a birth certificate suffices 99% of the time...

How would you prove anyone was a citizen with a birth certificate?

A birth certificate has got to be the most legally useless piece of paper ever made.

If you pulled a birth certificate out of your file and said: "See? This proves he's a citizen." I would say: "What material fact leads you to believe that that piece of paper pertains to me in any way? I've never seen that piece of paper before, I don't know where it came from and you have nothing to show that it does pertains to me."

And yes, it is VERY necessary to prove one who challenges political jurisdiction a citizen before proceeding.

If a birth certificate is the best you can do, then I'd be walking out of that court in about thirty seconds while you stood there with your ass in your hand.

[wserra]

How would you prove anyone was a citizen with a birth certificate?

A birth certificate has got to be the most legally useless piece of paper ever made.

Think so? Well, the Supreme Court doesn't appear to agree. "(A) birth certificate is required to prove U.S. citizenship by birth." Crawford v. Marion County Election Bd., __ US __, 128 S.Ct. 1610 (2008).

So, let's see. "jaydee" - "useless"; Supreme Court - "proves citizenship". "jaydee" - "useless"; Supreme Court - "proves citizenship". Doesn't seem like a proposition from Wittgenstein.

Of course, for your purposes, it makes no difference whether you're a citizen or not, but I assume you'll get to that.

If you pulled a birth certificate out of your file and said: "See? This proves he's a citizen." I would say: "What material fact leads you to believe that that piece of paper pertains to me in any way? I've never seen that piece of paper before, I don't know where it came from and you have nothing to show that it does pertains to me."

Other, of course, than the certification, which is enough to get it admitted in any court in the country. It certainly is enough to raise a presumption of your citizenship, which you would then have to rebut by more than your usual "Nyah, nyah, nyah". If, of course, you actually are not a citizen, and have no papers which show that you're here legally, you're deportable. I doubt that productive folks would miss you.

Of course, for your purposes, it makes no difference whether you're a citizen or not, but I assume you'll get to that.

And yes, it is VERY necessary to prove one who challenges political jurisdiction a citizen before proceeding.

That's all? It's "VERY necessary" just because you say (or Eric WhoAmI says) so? It doesn't seem enough.

If a birth certificate is the best you can do, then I'd be walking out of that court in about thirty seconds while you stood there with your ass in your hand.

Another Internet Rambo. Why don't you come back when you have authority (other than you and Eric) for your nonsense? You can start with a certified transcript of Eric's great victory.

[.]

I doubt that productive folks would miss you.

Aw, c'mon. A few of us who would miss his comedic value for a couple of minutes if he was deported.

The real question is whether or not he can be deported while his pants are on fire.

[Famspear]

How would you prove anyone was a citizen with a birth certificate?

A birth certificate has got to be the most legally useless piece of paper ever made.

No, in a court of law, "proof" means persuasion. If, by presenting a birth certificate, the opposing side can persuade the trier of fact (the jury in a jury trial, or the judge in a bench trial) that you are a citizen, then the opposition has proven that you are a citizen.

If you pulled a birth certificate out of your file and said: "See? This proves he's a citizen." I would say: "What material fact leads you to believe that that piece of paper pertains to me in any way? I've never seen that piece of paper before, I don't know where it came from and you have nothing to show that it does pertains to me."

That's it? That would be your answer? Loser.

And yes, it is VERY necessary to prove one who challenges political jurisdiction a citizen before proceeding.

No, as already explained, there is no such thing as "political jurisdiction" in the sense of a legal requirement that somebody prove you are a "citizen." In this context, there is no general legal requirement that you be a "U.S. citizen."

If a birth certificate is the best you can do, then I'd be walking out of that court in about thirty seconds while you stood there with your ass in your hand.

No, you are delusional. I would win. You would lose. You are delusional.

[Imalawman]

This is all very entertaining. Its been a while since we've had fresh meat.

JD - what would you do after you question political jurisdiction, the judge says there's no such thing, you turn to walk out, and a bailiff or sheriff restrains you and you're placed in jail for contempt? What next? I only ask because you'd better have thought through this scenario as it is the most likely result of Mr. Whore's advice.

Or this scenario if you're in civil court - question political jurisdiction, judge says there's no such thing, you walk out and then your wages are garnished and property taken by the IRS. What would you do next? Because that is most likely scenario when you follow Mr. Whore's advice in civil court. (one that I've actually witnessed first hand)

[Famspear]

This is all very entertaining. Its been a while since we've had fresh meat.

JD - what would you do after you question political jurisdiction, the judge says there's no such thing, you turn to walk out, and a bailiff or sheriff restrains you and you're placed in jail for contempt? What next? [ . . . ]

JayDee has a secret weapon.......

His ruby red slippers!

As the bailiff is hauling him away, he's just click those ruby red slippers together three times, and he'll softly say: "There's no place like home....there's no place like home....there's no place like home...."

http://home.att.net/~wizardoz/

And......

http://www.wizardofozcostumes.com/acces ... ppers.html

Poof! JayDee will be gone from that mean ol', bad ol' court room, and he'll wake up as a non-citizen...... in his own bed, safe and sound -- and far, far way from that mean ol', bad ol' political jurisdiction......

See? I told ya! Everything's going to be just fine...... Now you go to sleep, JayDee.....

Sweet dreams........ Sleep tight...... Nighty-night...... Don't let the bed bugs bite.......

[jaydee]

...He sells this nonsense.

What does he sell that you consider nonsense? He doesn't sell anything pertaining to political jurisdiction. The DVDs that he offers for $1.40 each are about how to end all taxation at all levels of government in the United States and to instead fund all government on interest paid on loans to private sector borrowers.

End all taxation and still fund the government? That's not nonsense at all. That's genius.

Unless anyone here has a better idea on how the government could operate without robbing people at gunpoint through taxes.

[LPC]

It doesn't count unless you can document what happened and another lawyer can produce the same result in another courtroom before another judge.

Is it time to cue the crickets?

[jaydee]

Apparently, Thom1776 did the same thing in criminal court for DWI and walked out.

No, he didn't.

So what DID happen to Mr. Thom1776 that day?

[Famspear]

What does he [Eric] sell that you consider nonsense? He doesn't sell anything pertaining to political jurisdiction. The DVDs that he offers for $1.40 each are about how to end all taxation at all levels of government in the United States and to instead fund all government on interest paid on loans to private sector borrowers.

End all taxation and still fund the government? That's not nonsense at all. That's genius.

You have a pretty low standard for deciding what you consider to be "genius."

And what happened to Mr. Thom1776? I don't know and I don't care. And neither do you. I explained to you what did not happen. That's all you need to know about that.

Are you really this gullible? Look at the web site you cited. Does that web site look like something legitimate to you? Do you really believe these stupid, nonsensical pseudo-legal theories like "political jurisdiction" based on web sites like this one? Are you really this naive?

How do you expect us to take you seriously?

[Red Cedar PM]

Question for you Mr. JD. Let's assume for a minute that what you and Mr. Whore-u say is true, that if I am brought before a court, all I have to say is I'm not a citizen and I will walk out free as a bird. Let's then say I go burn your house down. What recourse do you now have, other than coming after me yourself? If you call the cops they wouldn't be able to do anything. If your answer is that you would come after me yourself, then we may as well be living in Anarchy, because the government would have no power to do anything. If that is your cup of tea, I think us Quatloosians can take up a collection for a plane ticket to Somalia - I'm sure you'd fit right in. One less nutjob running around here.