A flurry of acitivity in the Brown follower trials

[SteveSy]

I believe that if the Browns and supporters were really going to kill U.S. agents they would have...all they had to do was pull the trigger. I personally think they were all talk, pretending to be someone they weren't.

Before anyone else tells you that you are an idiot, let me tell you that you are an idiot. Ed Brown never had a chance to pull the trigger. While he might have not pulled the trigger (I agree that he was a huge blow hard), I would not have bet even your life on it, let alone mine.

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. So could have any of his supporters. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for. Not one single shot was fired at any agent at any time during this incident.

[Imalawman]

I believe that if the Browns and supporters were really going to kill U.S. agents they would have...all they had to do was pull the trigger. I personally think they were all talk, pretending to be someone they weren't.

Before anyone else tells you that you are an idiot, let me tell you that you are an idiot. Ed Brown never had a chance to pull the trigger. While he might have not pulled the trigger (I agree that he was a huge blow hard), I would not have bet even your life on it, let alone mine.

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for.

Have you forgotten that he claimed he did shoot at agents? He routinely fired shots into the woods at what he suspected were agents. He was disappointed that they were in fact just his own imagination. But the fact remains that he tried to kill gov't agents whenever he had the chance.

[Dr. Caligari]

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. So could have any of his supporters. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for.

Steve, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Brown thought he was dealing with a supporter until he was handcuffed.

[SteveSy]

Before anyone else tells you that you are an idiot, let me tell you that you are an idiot. Ed Brown never had a chance to pull the trigger. While he might have not pulled the trigger (I agree that he was a huge blow hard), I would not have bet even your life on it, let alone mine.

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for.

Have you forgotten that he claimed he did shoot at agents? He routinely fired shots into the woods at what he suspected were agents. He was disappointed that they were in fact just his own imagination. But the fact remains that he tried to kill gov't agents whenever he had the chance.

Sure he did.....

I think you're just taking liberty with what he said or what happened in order to make your opinion appear acceptable. From what I remember, there were reports of shots heard in the woods but no one stated they were trying to kill agents or that it was even anyone affiliated with the Brown's. Cough up a statement saying he was trying to shot agents.

[SteveSy]

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. So could have any of his supporters. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for.

Steve, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. Brown thought he was dealing with a supporter until he was handcuffed.

Oh I know that....

But you don't think he or any of his supporters had a chance to kill federal marshals or agents during this incident? Did he resist arrest once he knew he was done for? Did anyone run for their guns and bombs or was the federal swat unit or whatever so good that they simultaneously disarmed and subdued all the supporters and prevented any impossibly of retaliation when this happened?

[Imalawman]

Of course he had a chance....give me a break. It's not like they stormed his house and he had no chance to pull the trigger. He could have shot an agent whenever he wanted to. He gave up without incident once he realized he was done for.

Have you forgotten that he claimed he did shoot at agents? He routinely fired shots into the woods at what he suspected were agents. He was disappointed that they were in fact just his own imagination. But the fact remains that he tried to kill gov't agents whenever he had the chance.

Sure he did.....

I think you're just taking liberty with what he said or what happened in order to make your opinion appear acceptable. From what I remember, there were reports of shots heard in the woods but no one stated they were trying to kill agents or that it was even anyone affiliated with the Brown's. Cough up a statement saying he was trying to shot agents.

here's just one example - "If the dog indicates she sees something in the woods, I'll pop off a few rounds in the woods," he said. - By Marc Robins, Globe Correspondent, October 5, 2007. There are more example, but I don't have the time to dig all of them up. You can find more too, with probably just a google search.

The fact remains Steve, that Ed made the statements over and over that he was dead set on killing agents. Whether he meant them or not is, IMNSHO, immaterial.

[Famspear]

Regarding the takedown, Elaine Brown is alleged to have written:

Dutch/Dan also brought 3 pizzas, and we broke out the beer, we all sat on the front porch eating pizza and drinking beer, just relaxing. Suddenly they all jumped us. Dutch/Dan was sitting on my right, and he grabbed me[,] securing my hands. Once he had me secured, one of the others tazered me on my left knee. The other four men had Ed on the floor, they had actually forced him out of his chair, through the front door, and onto the foyer floor[.] we were immediately handcuffed. I behind my back. My memory of Ed is he was handcuffed in front and shackled feet and waist.

--(bolding added).

From:

http://www.makethestand.com/

(without comment)

[SteveSy]

Have you forgotten that he claimed he did shoot at agents? He routinely fired shots into the woods at what he suspected were agents. He was disappointed that they were in fact just his own imagination. But the fact remains that he tried to kill gov't agents whenever he had the chance.

Sure he did.....

I think you're just taking liberty with what he said or what happened in order to make your opinion appear acceptable. From what I remember, there were reports of shots heard in the woods but no one stated they were trying to kill agents or that it was even anyone affiliated with the Brown's. Cough up a statement saying he was trying to shot agents.

here's just one example - "If the dog indicates she sees something in the woods, I'll pop off a few rounds in the woods," he said. - By Marc Robins, Globe Correspondent, October 5, 2007. There are more example, but I don't have the time to dig all of them up. You can find more too, with probably just a google search.

The fact remains Steve, that Ed made the statements over and over that he was dead set on killing agents. Whether he meant them or not is, IMNSHO, immaterial.

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

Let's get this straight, he deserves under law to be punished for stating he will act aggressively towards agents. However, Brown is no terrorist....he's an old man with a strongly held belief and when push came to shove he didn't have the balls to back up all his tough talk. He certainly doesn't deserve 25 years for what he did. He'll end up, because he's an anti-government nonconformist, serving more time for a nonviolent crime than if he had molested small children. The truth of the matter is the government severely punishes people who don't conform or are seriously anti-government and act on their opinions, like not paying taxes. People caught engaging in that activity are treated worse than if they molested children.

[Demosthenes]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

And preventing the Browns' arrest by scaring the government agents off (without aiming at particular marshals) is what the fab four have been charged with.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/924.html

There are differing sentenced for idiots who threaten vs actually brandishing a weapon vs. actually shooting that weapon at agents.

[Demosthenes]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

And preventing the Browns' arrest by scaring the government agents off (without aiming at particular marshals) is what the fab four have been charged with.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/924.html

There are differing sentenced for idiots who threaten vs actually brandishing a weapon vs. actually shooting that weapon at agents.

Brown is no terrorist....

His collection of bombs, IED, zip guns, and so on suggests otherwise.

[SteveSy]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

And preventing the Browns' arrest by scaring the government agents off (without aiming at particular marshals) is what the fab four have been charged with.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/924.html

There are differing sentenced for idiots who threaten vs actually brandishing a weapon vs. actually shooting that weapon at agents.

Brown is no terrorist....

His collection of bombs, IED, zip guns, and so on suggests otherwise.

Collections don't prove anything....other than you have the means to do harm, not that you will.

You punish people for what they did do, not what they could or might do.

[Demosthenes]

Collecting bombs is illegal, Stevie.

[Nikki]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

Let's get this straight, he deserves under law to be punished for stating he will act aggressively towards agents. However, Brown is no terrorist....he's an old man with a strongly held belief and when push came to shove he didn't have the balls to back up all his tough talk. He certainly doesn't deserve 25 years for what he did. He'll end up, because he's an anti-government nonconformist, serving more time for a nonviolent crime than if he had molested small children. The truth of the matter is the government severely punishes people who don't conform or are seriously anti-government and act on their opinions, like not paying taxes. People caught engaging in that activity are treated worse than if they molested children.

Are you referring to Osama Bin Laden

Steve, which part of the rule of law do you not understand?

Or is it that you only believe in the inforcement of laws with which you agree? In that case, how do you reconcile your opinion with that of your next-door neighbor?

Go back under your rock.

[SteveSy]

Collecting bombs is illegal, Stevie.

Yep, and he should be punished for having illegal weapons. They are treating this much worse than if he just had illegal weapons.

[Nikki]

Collecting bombs is illegal, Stevie.

Yep, and he should be punished for having illegal weapons. They are treating this much worse than if he just had illegal weapons.

Don't worry, he will be. Plus as a convicted felon and a fugitive, the severity of the charges is significantly enhanced.

Your rock is calling you

[SteveSy]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

Let's get this straight, he deserves under law to be punished for stating he will act aggressively towards agents. However, Brown is no terrorist....he's an old man with a strongly held belief and when push came to shove he didn't have the balls to back up all his tough talk. He certainly doesn't deserve 25 years for what he did. He'll end up, because he's an anti-government nonconformist, serving more time for a nonviolent crime than if he had molested small children. The truth of the matter is the government severely punishes people who don't conform or are seriously anti-government and act on their opinions, like not paying taxes. People caught engaging in that activity are treated worse than if they molested children.

Are you referring to Osama Bin Laden

Steve, which part of the rule of law do you not understand?

Or is it that you only believe in the inforcement of laws with which you agree? In that case, how do you reconcile your opinion with that of your next-door neighbor?

Go back under your rock.

So why knock any regime or government...they make the laws. Which part of the rule of law do you not understand?

Just because it's a law doesn't instantly legitimize its use. It used to be law that you could own slaves and it was illegal for them to run away from their owners, did that make it right to own slaves?

[Demosthenes]

Collecting bombs is illegal, Stevie.

Yep, and he should be punished for having illegal weapons. They are treating this much worse than if he just had illegal weapons.

Who is? Brown hasn't even been indicted yet.

You might want to actually read the indictment for the Fab Four, Stevie. Buying weapons and explosives for known fugitives and threatening to kill Marshals is not exactly child's play.

Reno was even kind enough to outline his intentions on his MySpace page.

[SteveSy]

Collecting bombs is illegal, Stevie.

Yep, and he should be punished for having illegal weapons. They are treating this much worse than if he just had illegal weapons.

Who is? Brown hasn't even been indicted yet.

You might want to actually read the indictment for the Fab Four, Stevie. Buying weapons and explosives for known fugitives and threatening to kill Marshals is not exactly child's play.

Reno was even kind enough to outline his intentions on his MySpace page.

And of course out of all of this big talk not a single agent was harmed....It looks to me like it was all talk and no action.

If any of those people really intended to kill federal agents a few would be dead or wounded. If a couple of teenagers can accomplish killing people after they said they were going to do it, certainly 20 or 30 adults could have hurt someone if they wanted to.

[Cobalt Shiva]

Ok, but does he say he's trying or aiming to kill them or shoot directly at them? He doesn't even have a target....it seems to me he's just looking to scare them off.

Stevie, me boy . . . if one is willing to open fire, one is willing to kill, your particular flavor of sophistry be damned. Anyone willing to open fire completely blind is willing to kill anyone who has the misfortune of being downrange of the muzzle--be it a federal agent one is trying to "scare off" or a nonparticipant who had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you really believe what you wrote and I quoted, please, for the love of God, do not own or use a firearm, ever, before you manage to kill somebody with your unique combination of arrogance and stupidity.

[grixit]

Is there such a thing as a friend of the court character witness? If so, Steve would make a good one.