The real reason for your proposed dollar coin

[wserra]

Long live the Dorsai Irregulars!

[Pottapaug1938]

I'm procrastinating and so I had some random fleeting thoughts. What if they eliminate all coinage? Would they end up rounding to the nearest dollar or would it all be rounded up?

Canada hasn't gone that far; but they stopped minting 1 cent coins in 2012, and their lowest value coin is now the 5 cent piece. The way that their rounding works is that you total up the cash purchases, just as they always have. If the grand total ends in a 1 or a 2, it gets rounded down to the previous 0. It it's 3 or 4, it gets rounded up to the next 5. If it ends in 6 or 7, it gets rounded down to the previous 5. If is ends in 8 or 9, it gets rounded up to the next 0.

In the end -- you win some, you lose some; and the rounding rules are prescribed, so the paranoiac rant of "they'll just cheat us by rounding everything up" seems to be something less than accurate.

[NYGman]

I am betting there are people who when they go shopping, for many items, groceries for example, the spit up their purchases in to groups that would result in only rounding down, just to mess with the tax man. I know I would be tempted to do that.

[Burnaby49]

I am betting there are people who when they go shopping, for many items, groceries for example, the spit up their purchases in to groups that would result in only rounding down, just to mess with the tax man. I know I would be tempted to do that.

It has nothing to do with taxes, just how your change at the till is determined in the absence of pennies. It took the population of Canada a grand total of about thirty seconds to adapt to a pennyless world.

[NYGman]

My bad, I figured I was the tax bit rounded down. In the US we add tax to the price, so $10 in NYC becomes 10.89. so I'm my mind, rounding up would give an extra penny to the government add the store gets it $10, .90 would go to NY.

[Burnaby49]

My bad, I figured I was the tax bit rounded down. In the US we add tax to the price, so $10 in NYC becomes 10.89. so I'm my mind, rounding up would give an extra penny to the government add the store gets it $10, .90 would go to NY.

We have a sales tax in most provinces (I believe Alberta is the only exception) which is imposed on the sales price of the items purchased. How much change you get is irrelevant to the amount of tax imposed. It's largely irrelevant for most transactions anyhow because it is only an issue in cash purchases. The penny still exists in the digital world so if you pay by debit or credit card your billed amount is the exact purchase price.

[KickahaOta]

We have a sales tax in most provinces (I believe Alberta is the only exception) which is imposed on the sales price of the items purchased. How much change you get is irrelevant to the amount of tax imposed. It's largely irrelevant for most transactions anyhow because it is only an issue in cash purchases. The penny still exists in the digital world so if you pay by debit or credit card your billed amount is the exact purchase price.

So there you go; that's how the clever citizen profits from this. Before deciding on a form of payment, figure out the total. (I suppose you could wait for the cashier to bring it up, but since we're all naturally brilliant we can do the math in our heads.) If the total ends in 1, 2, 6, or 7, pay cash and get your downward rounding. If the total ends in 3, 4, 8, or 9, pay with plastic. You could easily save as much as four cents per day!

[Pottapaug1938]

We have a sales tax in most provinces (I believe Alberta is the only exception) which is imposed on the sales price of the items purchased. How much change you get is irrelevant to the amount of tax imposed. It's largely irrelevant for most transactions anyhow because it is only an issue in cash purchases. The penny still exists in the digital world so if you pay by debit or credit card your billed amount is the exact purchase price.

So there you go; that's how the clever citizen profits from this. Before deciding on a form of payment, figure out the total. (I suppose you could wait for the cashier to bring it up, but since we're all naturally brilliant we can do the math in our heads.) If the total ends in 1, 2, 6, or 7, pay cash and get your downward rounding. If the total ends in 3, 4, 8, or 9, pay with plastic. You could easily save as much as four cents per day!

Wow! After a whole year of this kind of circus, I could rake in as much as $14.60 ($14.68 in leap years)! That's just about enough for a growler fill at the brewery where my son works.

[NYGman]

You could easily save as much as four cents per day!

You will be rich in no time, using that method. Free money, perhaps you have uncovered Bobby Menards next cunning plan to get rich.

[KickahaOta]

For added savings, if the total ends in five or zero, pay with Re or promissory notes.

[The Observer]

Wow! After a whole year of this kind of circus, I could rake in as much as $14.60 ($14.68 in leap years)!

Laugh all you want, but you are forgetting that this is a huge sum of money for a FOTLer like Dean who has to maintain his hobo status.

[Pottapaug1938]

Wow! After a whole year of this kind of circus, I could rake in as much as $14.60 ($14.68 in leap years)!

Laugh all you want, but you are forgetting that this is a huge sum of money for a FOTLer like Dean who has to maintain his hobo status.

At least in Massachusetts, his time would be much more profitably spent collecting deposit bottles and cans and taking them in for redemption. In non-deposit states, he could take the cans, crush them, and bring them to a scrap metals dealer.

[The Observer]

At least in Massachusetts, his time would be much more profitably spent collecting deposit bottles and cans and taking them in for redemption. In non-deposit states, he could take the cans, crush them, and bring them to a scrap metals dealer.

The words "Dean Clifford", "time" and "profitably spent" should never occur in a sentence, since those conditions could never be met.

[Pottapaug1938]

At least in Massachusetts, his time would be much more profitably spent collecting deposit bottles and cans and taking them in for redemption. In non-deposit states, he could take the cans, crush them, and bring them to a scrap metals dealer.

The words "Dean Clifford", "time" and "profitably spent" should never occur in a sentence, since those conditions could never be met.

Welllllllllll... it could happen... just like Congress could start using rock-paper-scissors to settle arguments over proposed legislation.

[Burnaby49]

About Time!

Part of this ancient thread considered Canada's removal of the penny from circulation. Production of the penny ceased in May 2012 and the Royal Canadian Mint ceased distributing them on February 4, 2013. I've never read anything since that indicated that anyone missed them, I certainly didn't. But you Americans kept the faith. As Pottapaug1938 wrote on Dec 20, 2012

Down here, there is widespread wailing and gnashing of teeth when anyone proposes getting rid of pennies. It's viewed as an evil corporate plot to jack up prices and build profits; and people talk about the cent as if its size, weight and design were ordained by George Washington himself and are thus sacred. We also have to deal with hordes of half-wit pundits who warn that we will have to update many old cliches and aphorisms such as "a nickel saved is a nickel earned", or perhaps "a nickel for your thoughts", just as when proposals are made to introduce the metric system down here ("a miss is as good as 1.60934 kilometers").

Well, finally, over a decade after we dumped the damned things, you've finally decided to follow suit.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/09/business ... index.html

I never thought I'd ever quote Trump but here we are.

For far too long the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful! I have instructed my Secretary of the US Treasury to stop producing new pennies. Let’s rip the waste out of our great nations budget, even if it’s a penny at a time,

Actually, according to the article, the US Mint pays 3.7 cents to produce and distribute one penny.

At the time our penny was eliminated there was much political huffing and puffing about getting rid of the nickel too but we did nothing and they still weigh down my wallet. Maybe you'll have better luck;

In 2013, a commentary piece on the Brooking Institution website took things a step further, arguing for the US not only to stop making the penny but also to halt production of the nickel.

“Perhaps, the problem is not that advocates have been too bold, but rather that they have been too timid — let’s drop not just pennies, but nickels too and stop using the rightmost decimal place at all,” the piece argued.

[Pottapaug1938]

As Burnaby notes, I have long called for the abolition of our 1 cent coin (except that now, I suggest that a limited number of uncirculated and proof examples cold be struck for collectors -- IF the pre-1982 alloy is used, and IF a decent bas-relief image of Lincoln is used (has anyone noticed that Lincoln is actually CONCAVE in the current cents?). I would also suggest that the pre-1959 wheat ears reverse be revived, and that the "V.DF.B." be restored to its 1909 position (how many people ever notice those initials on the truncation of Lincoln's bust?)

And, while we're at it, stop printing $1 bills; but this time, stop the foolishness of trying to make the coin at its current size, where it is tough to distinguish, by touch, from a quarter. Make it bimetallic, and make it thick enough so that people can identify it by touch. Making the coin multi-sided would be a big plus, as well. As for the expected complaints, whines, and moans about having to walk around weighted down by pockets and purses full of these coins, our Canadian friends can dispel those fears with ease. On my visits to Canada, if I go to a store, and my purchases total $8.00, and I have enough $1 and $2 coins in my pocket to cover that amount, I leave my wallet where it is, and find the right coins, by touch, in my pocket for that purpose.

And, don't forget to tell the lobbyists for zinc mining and vending machine companies to ...perform an anatomically difficult action on themselves. They are key players in why we are in this mess.

[Burnaby49]

Generally when my wallet gets uncomfortably full of coins I've got enough, as Pottapaug noted, to use them at the till. Retailers are happy to take coins, they never seem to have enough. Pretty much irrelevant anyhow. Everybody except stubborn geriatrics like me use debit or credit cards.

Even I've surrendered to the inevitable. My primary need for cash was at Banana Grove, a very popular family-owned local grocery store that takes only debit or cash. This is our primary store for all grocery items (I hate big-box superstores) so we spend a significant amount there. Since I didn't have debit I'd have to haul a wallet full of cash. So I finally gave up and got a debit card.

[AnOwlCalledSage]

This did prompt me to look up the UK figures. Seems we just don't mint any at all in a particular year if they are not needed rather than just stop.

Tuppence appears to be the least minted UK coin in the last decade.

[eric]

Loonies and toonies are great. It used to be I was lucky to pay for a coffee with the change in my pocket, now I can buy a six pack of beer and smokes. More serious note, out here there is still lots of cash. Hutterites only deal in cash, so they will drop a few thousand in bills for whatever. Interestingly enough, since many of the men are functionally illiterate, it's the women who handle the money. At seeding and harvest time temporary labour are traditionally paid in cash, small bills please, eight hundred to a thousand bucks for a twenty hour day. The farmer declares it on his taxes as an expense and leaves it up to the hired hands to sort it out themselves.

[Burnaby49]

In a prior posting about eliminating the penny I quoted this;

In 2013, a commentary piece on the Brooking Institution website took things a step further, arguing for the US not only to stop making the penny but also to halt production of the nickel.

“Perhaps, the problem is not that advocates have been too bold, but rather that they have been too timid — let’s drop not just pennies, but nickels too and stop using the rightmost decimal place at all,” the piece argued.

An article in the New York Times argues that to actually save any money by eliminating the penny it may be necessary to also eliminate the nickel. The article considered the ramifications of four options regarding the penny;

1 - Keep it, just leave things as they are
2 - Eliminate the penny
3 - Eliminate the penny and the nickel
4 - No more coins

As I understand it your current plan is to stop producing pennies but keep the nickel. This is what the article concludes about that;

Option 2: Stop minting the penny

If the Mint did stop minting pennies, it would save about $85 million a year. Unfortunately, it would then have bigger and more expensive problem: the nickel.

“If you get rid of the penny, it will increase the amount of nickels,” Mr. Jeppson said. “And you lose more on a nickel than you do on a penny.”

The article said that nickels cost almost 14 cents each to mint, resulting in a loss of 9 cents for each nickel. If the end of the penny requires minting many more nickels to compensate the additional loss on the nickels could well offset the savings from ending the penny.

However as time goes by the savings from any of the alternatives may be far less than expected because of the increasing use of debit and credit for purchases rather than cash. As the article concludes;

Having just two coins (under option 3) could hasten a trend away from physical currency that is already underway. In 2016, a Federal Reserve study estimated that cash was used for 31 percent of all payments. In 2023, the Fed’s estimate for percentage of cash payments declined to 16 percent.