It might have been more impressive if your prescience wasn't so...so...so...how does one put it - vague?Famspear wrote:OK, OK, I won't again mention my cosmic, expansive Weltanschauung, my brilliance, my prescience regarding the special operations that I knew would be carried out against the dastardly Edward Blowhardhands.
Seriously, although I (and I'm sure others) had a pretty good idea of what Monier was trying to do, I definitely was not prescient on the point that this would end so well.
Ed and Elaine Brown arrested (Continued)
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Probably RPG's with nuclear warheads.Shaun Kranish, a supporter from Rockford, Ill., who had visited the Brown home, said that he was discouraged by their arrests and that he found it hard to believe they had not put up a fight.
"We were not told," he said, "how or what types of weaponry were involved in taking them."
Seriously, it's a 60+ year old guy and his 60+ year old wife. Monier refused to say how many officers there were, other than a "handful," but if there were four officers there, they outnumbered the Browns 2-to-1. Trained in subduing suspects, standing close to the Browns, and with the element of surprise, all the officers would have needed were a couple of nylon cable ties.
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"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
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"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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From the previous thread:
Federal crimes require a federal pardon, so it would have to be the President.Truthstalker wrote:Now I'm not suggesting for an instant that it could happen, but I'm just curious. Could the Governor pardon these crimes or would it have to be the President?
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
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"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Above, I wrote:
Seriously again, you just know that Edward Blowhardhands and "Elaine Alice: family Blowhardhands" had to be agonizing from time to time, maybe every day, about the possibility of this happening (who can we trust? who can we trust? is that guy really a cop?). The fact that the good guys were able to pull this off so well has to be a testament to their abilities and patience.Yeah, but I didn't want to be specific enough to tip anyone off about the plan (wink, wink).
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From the previous thread:
A job well done is its own reward, but sometimes there are dividends as well.Trippy wrote:.... I also predict a LOT more internal paranoia and infighting within these "patriot" groups, now that we know how law enforcement gained entrance to the home.
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
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"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Even when he's not actually whining, Kranish is still amazingly annoying. All attitude, no actual information.Demosthenes wrote:Be sure to listen to Shaun whine and distance himself from the Browns (he didn't really help them or anything...)
Another strange point: The interviewer (Fred Smart, who has a name that is jarringly inappropriate) twice referred to people being "turned on" by the Ed Brown story. Was there some part of the story we were supposed to lick?
Dan Evans
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
Foreman of the Unified Citizens' Grand Jury for Pennsylvania
(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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You seriously don't know how to backpeddle and claim credit.Famspear wrote:Yeah, but I didn't want to be specific enough to tip anyone off about the plan (wink, wink).It might have been more impressive if your prescience wasn't so...so...so...how does one put it - vague?
Ahem,
Back when Ed stopped showing up for his trial, I sat down with Monier and Co. for a planning session. Among the issue of how to bring in E&E without violence, we determined that the only successful way to pull it off would be to log into various public forums and bemoan the fact that visitors were coming and going, that they haven't sealed off the property yet, etc.
It was the only way to throw E&E off the trail.
So, you see, I was right all along
Yeah, I'm eating my words too.
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I have it on good authority that Monier called in one of the Waco FBI consultants whose advice had been ignored resulting in that tragedy. This time Monier let him call the shots. Who was that expert? http://www.geocities.com/vertexion/2006 ... sident.jpg
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webhick wrote:
Yeah, yeah! That's what I meant to say!You seriously don't know how to backpeddle and claim credit.
Ahem,
Back when Ed stopped showing up for his trial, I sat down with Monier and Co. for a planning session. Among the issue of how to bring in E&E without violence, we determined that the only successful way to pull it off would be to log into various public forums and bemoan the fact that visitors were coming and going, that they haven't sealed off the property yet, etc.
It was the only way to throw E&E off the trail.
So, you see, I was right all along
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* * * Keyboard Warnings Please * * *Truthstalker wrote:I have it on good authority that Monier called in one of the Waco FBI consultants whose advice had been ignored resulting in that tragedy. This time Monier let him call the shots. Who was that expert? http://www.geocities.com/vertexion/2006 ... sident.jpg
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A Fress State flake demonstration to protest Ed's arrest:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o9Ws4aZ3ja0
Part 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KSTALQwJrrU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o9Ws4aZ3ja0
Part 2:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KSTALQwJrrU
Demo.
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‘They invited us in; we escorted them out'
By JOHN WHITSON
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
11 hours, 14 minutes ago
CONCORD – After nearly nine months defying law enforcement as convicted felons and fugitives, Ed and Elaine Brown opened the door to their own capture Thursday night.
"They invited us in and we escorted them out," said U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier during a news conference yesterday at U.S. District Court.
The Browns were taken into custody on the front porch of their fortified Plainfield home, where they had holed up with supplies while living "off the grid" in defiance of their Jan. 18 convictions for refusing to pay federal taxes on $1.9 million of income between 1996 and 2003.
Guns, ammunition and homemade bombs were found inside the house and on the surrounding 103-acre property, said Monier.
"We discovered a large number of improvised explosive devices," he said, adding there were "booby traps" along the property's tree line.
"Obviously, that property in Plainfield is an active crime scene," he said.
Monier said the Browns' "open-door policy" with anti-tax supporters played into law enforcement strategy to capture the couple without violence.
Ed Brown repeatedly vowed the couple wouldn't be taken into custody alive, and he threatened to kill anyone who tried to arrest him.
Monier said no one else was at the residence when law enforcement officers, posing as supporters, came knocking Thursday.
"Unfortunately for them, these supporters turned out to be deputy U.S. marshals," said Monier. "This open-door policy turned out to be their undoing."
The Browns were immediately taken into custody, and Monier said they were being taken yesterday to an undisclosed federal prison to begin serving 63-month sentences for tax evasion.
The prison location will be disclosed when the Browns arrive, he said.
While the strategy to pose as supporters was not new, the details were hammered out just last week.
William Sorukas, chief inspector of the U.S. Marshal's Office Investigative Services Division in Washington, said yesterday his bosses recently gave the green light.
"It was a plan that was developed over a period of time and finalized last Wednesday," said Sorukas, "and at that time submitted to my superiors for review. We fine-tuned it a bit and proceeded."
He said the national office worked as advisers to Monier's people in New Hampshire.
"Our role was primarily to assist and support the district operation here with the development of the plan and the execution of it," said Sorukas.
He refused to contrast the standoff and its conclusion to infamous and deadly incidents in Waco, Texas, and Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in the 1990s.
"Every case is assessed for strengths and weaknesses," he said, adding that the U.S. Marshal's Office has arrested nearly 100,000 felony fugitives in the last 12 months. "The weakness here was that they allowed visitors."
Monier said the case remains open and more charges against the couple and their supporters could be filed.
"Unfortunately," he said, "the Browns have turned this into more than just a tax case."
Four people were arrested Sept. 12 and have been held on various charges related to helping the Browns remain fugitives.
Due to the Browns' anti-tax rhetoric and threats against law enforcement, Monier said his office realized from the beginning that the case "had national implications."
He warned the couple's sympathizers not to "impede or interfere" with the investigation going forward.
"They need to think seriously about that before they do it," said Monier. "We're taking appropriate measures and will monitor threats."
Monier acknowledged criticism that his office allowed the standoff to drag on too long, but said that also played into the strategy to take the couple into custody "without a shot being fired."
"It took a while to get to that point, but that's where I guess patience is a virtue," he said.
Although electrical and telephone service to the Brown home was cut off early on, Monier said eliminating outside access to the Brown home would only have lengthened the standoff because the couple was well-stocked with food and water.
"Had we shut it down in the beginning," he said, "we wouldn't have been able to accomplish what we accomplished yesterday."
Monier wouldn't say how "a handful" of deputy marshals were able to gain the Browns' trust, how they had contacted the couple or if they'd previously been inside the house.
But after months of planning, he said, Thursday night's operation didn't take long. "When the decision was made to move, it went very, very quickly."
He refused to characterize the Browns' reaction upon being handcuffed.
The cost of the case is still being tabulated, but Monier called it a "very expensive operation."
Once secured, the Plainfield home and Elaine Brown's dentist office in Lebanon will be sold to recoup some of the expenses, he said.
Monier said the longtime objective of taking the couple into custody without harm to officers, Plainfield residents or the Browns themselves, couldn't have happened without the cooperation of local and state police officers.
The case will be thoroughly reviewed throughout federal law enforcement, he said. "There will be lessons learned from this."
By JOHN WHITSON
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff
11 hours, 14 minutes ago
CONCORD – After nearly nine months defying law enforcement as convicted felons and fugitives, Ed and Elaine Brown opened the door to their own capture Thursday night.
"They invited us in and we escorted them out," said U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier during a news conference yesterday at U.S. District Court.
The Browns were taken into custody on the front porch of their fortified Plainfield home, where they had holed up with supplies while living "off the grid" in defiance of their Jan. 18 convictions for refusing to pay federal taxes on $1.9 million of income between 1996 and 2003.
Guns, ammunition and homemade bombs were found inside the house and on the surrounding 103-acre property, said Monier.
"We discovered a large number of improvised explosive devices," he said, adding there were "booby traps" along the property's tree line.
"Obviously, that property in Plainfield is an active crime scene," he said.
Monier said the Browns' "open-door policy" with anti-tax supporters played into law enforcement strategy to capture the couple without violence.
Ed Brown repeatedly vowed the couple wouldn't be taken into custody alive, and he threatened to kill anyone who tried to arrest him.
Monier said no one else was at the residence when law enforcement officers, posing as supporters, came knocking Thursday.
"Unfortunately for them, these supporters turned out to be deputy U.S. marshals," said Monier. "This open-door policy turned out to be their undoing."
The Browns were immediately taken into custody, and Monier said they were being taken yesterday to an undisclosed federal prison to begin serving 63-month sentences for tax evasion.
The prison location will be disclosed when the Browns arrive, he said.
While the strategy to pose as supporters was not new, the details were hammered out just last week.
William Sorukas, chief inspector of the U.S. Marshal's Office Investigative Services Division in Washington, said yesterday his bosses recently gave the green light.
"It was a plan that was developed over a period of time and finalized last Wednesday," said Sorukas, "and at that time submitted to my superiors for review. We fine-tuned it a bit and proceeded."
He said the national office worked as advisers to Monier's people in New Hampshire.
"Our role was primarily to assist and support the district operation here with the development of the plan and the execution of it," said Sorukas.
He refused to contrast the standoff and its conclusion to infamous and deadly incidents in Waco, Texas, and Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in the 1990s.
"Every case is assessed for strengths and weaknesses," he said, adding that the U.S. Marshal's Office has arrested nearly 100,000 felony fugitives in the last 12 months. "The weakness here was that they allowed visitors."
Monier said the case remains open and more charges against the couple and their supporters could be filed.
"Unfortunately," he said, "the Browns have turned this into more than just a tax case."
Four people were arrested Sept. 12 and have been held on various charges related to helping the Browns remain fugitives.
Due to the Browns' anti-tax rhetoric and threats against law enforcement, Monier said his office realized from the beginning that the case "had national implications."
He warned the couple's sympathizers not to "impede or interfere" with the investigation going forward.
"They need to think seriously about that before they do it," said Monier. "We're taking appropriate measures and will monitor threats."
Monier acknowledged criticism that his office allowed the standoff to drag on too long, but said that also played into the strategy to take the couple into custody "without a shot being fired."
"It took a while to get to that point, but that's where I guess patience is a virtue," he said.
Although electrical and telephone service to the Brown home was cut off early on, Monier said eliminating outside access to the Brown home would only have lengthened the standoff because the couple was well-stocked with food and water.
"Had we shut it down in the beginning," he said, "we wouldn't have been able to accomplish what we accomplished yesterday."
Monier wouldn't say how "a handful" of deputy marshals were able to gain the Browns' trust, how they had contacted the couple or if they'd previously been inside the house.
But after months of planning, he said, Thursday night's operation didn't take long. "When the decision was made to move, it went very, very quickly."
He refused to characterize the Browns' reaction upon being handcuffed.
The cost of the case is still being tabulated, but Monier called it a "very expensive operation."
Once secured, the Plainfield home and Elaine Brown's dentist office in Lebanon will be sold to recoup some of the expenses, he said.
Monier said the longtime objective of taking the couple into custody without harm to officers, Plainfield residents or the Browns themselves, couldn't have happened without the cooperation of local and state police officers.
The case will be thoroughly reviewed throughout federal law enforcement, he said. "There will be lessons learned from this."
Demo.
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Plainfield breathes sigh of relief
by KRISTEN SENZ
Union Leader Correspondent
14 hours, 24 minutes ago
PLAINFIELD – With Ed and Elaine Brown behind bars, many Plainfield residents are expressing relief, but local law enforcement officers aren't relaxing just yet.
"There's a lot of work to do from here on out," Plainfield Police Chief Gordon Gillens said yesterday. "We're waiting for the other shoe to fall from everything they've said in the past."
Ed Brown, who with his wife, Elaine, was convicted in January of federal tax evasion charges, said this summer that if federal agents harmed him or his wife, his supporters would retaliate by killing a list of law enforcement officers, including Gillens.
Although the federal government's impasse with the convicted tax protesters ended peacefully Thursday night, messages in online forums yesterday hinted that Ed Brown's "most wanted" list could still come into play.
"This site shows 5,116 friends," Brown supporter Jim Hobbs wrote on the couple's MySpace page. "How many of you are just going to sit back and do nothing and how many of you will take action? Ed had a list of 50 most wanted. Will you act on that list and send the message, loud and clear?"
Obviously, anger toward police officers is nothing new, Gillens said, but investigators continue to monitor certain Web sites to assess the so-called threats of violence.
"We're waiting to see if their followers are going to follow through with that," he said. "With the extremes that some of these people go to, you kind of ratchet up your own awareness."
Two New Hampshire State Troopers guarded the top half of the dead-end Center of Town Road yesterday as federal agents continued to investigate the Browns' property, which they called "an active crime scene."
Meanwhile, on the now-notorious country road where the Browns had lived, residents are happy to wave goodbye to gun-toting anti-government activists and reclaim their quiet neighborhood.
Mary Sweet, who lives on Center of Town Road, said although the Browns have always been friendly neighbors, the months-long ordeal was frustrating for neighbors.
"It was annoying for people on this road, I think, to see them sort of living high," she said, referring to the freedom with which their "weird" supporters were able to come and go and bring them supplies.
"It was good to get it over with," Sweet said. "It's been quite a long haul."
Sweet and others had previously been irritated by U.S. Marshal Steve Monier's seemingly hands-off approach to the situation, but apparently his patience led to yesterday's peaceful resolution, she said. "We got a little agitated with him, to be honest, because he seemed to be holding back so much, but he's to be commended for avoiding the bloodshed."
Bob Carpenter, owner of Classy Chassis Auto Body on Center of Town Road, said the situation with the Browns never had much of an impact on his business or his life.
"(Ed Brown has) always been a little radical anyway," he said yesterday. "They just took it a little too far this time, that's all."
"What we've said from the beginning is they're going to choose their own destiny on this."
Over the course of the couple's nine-month sequestration at their castle-like house on the hill, Ed Brown alienated many would-be supporters with anti-Semitic remarks and generalized accusations against groups like the Freemasons. Other supporters were kicked out of the couple's home after breaking "house rules," Brown has said.
William Miller of Farmington was one of Browns' earliest supporters, but renounced his association with Ed Brown in a written statement this summer.
"I have made it clear with Ed Brown, beginning with my entrance into 'the siege,' in early January, that his efforts at 'communication,' were inappropriate, ultimately detrimental to his own cause, and harmful to the greater cause of resurgent Liberty," Miller wrote. "Brown has ignored, on many occasions throughout the years, the good counsel of some valiant, focused, hard-working freedom fighters whom, unfortunately, exemplify a larger spiritual vision, and a more finely tuned sense of balance and reason than does Brown."
The Browns and thousands of others nationwide argue that no law specifically makes average Americans liable to pay federal income tax. Internal Revenue Service officials have said court convictions are proof of tax liability and that Title 26 of the United States Code, when taken as a whole, creates the obligation to pay.
Demo.
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Browns fell for disguised marshals
Officials say home was booby-trapped
By Margot Sanger-Katz
Monitor staff
October 06. 2007 1:51AM
Without their supporters, tax protesters Ed and Elaine Brown couldn't have sustained the public, eight-month standoff against federal authorities in Plainfield that brought them national attention. But their reliance on outsiders and willingness to trust strangers ultimately proved the couple's undoing.
Thursday night, they were arrested by a small group of deputy marshals posing as supporters, U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier said.
"They invited us in, and we escorted them out," Monier said at a press briefing yesterday.
The arrests marked the end to a tense standoff marked by repeated threats of violence and the growing specter of explosives. The Browns, who were convicted of a series of tax-related crimes in January, rejected the authority of the courts and the federal marshals and said they would rather die than surrender.
According to evidence gathered by marshals at the scene of their arrest, they were preparing for just such a contingency. Monier said the fortified concrete home and wooded property were filled with improvised explosive devices and booby traps. The couple had weapons and ammunition, stockpiled food, disposable cell phones, a watchtower, and the ability to generate their own electricity and draw their own water.
But none of that helped them in the end. According to Monier, the couple were arrested without incident on their front porch. No one was harmed; not a single bullet was fired, he said.
"Throughout this ordeal, the bad news was that the Browns continued to invite supporters to the property," Monier said. "The good news was that the Browns continued to invite supporters to the property."
Bernie Bastian, a close friend of the Browns, said yesterday in a recording online that Ed Brown was worried about the visitors who ultimately arrested him. Bastian said Brown called him about an hour before the arrests.
"He told me some guys were coming down to do some exercises with them, and he said he didn't know who they were," Bastian said. "He told me to just stand by and he would get back to me, and he never got back to me."
Monier released few details about the nature of the operation. He would not say how many deputy marshals were involved, how they were dressed or whether they had been to the house before. But he did say that the deputies had been able to persuade the Browns that they shared the couple's views and had come to help.
Monier described the couple's arrest as the culmination of a long and detailed planning process.
"From the very beginning, when this started we wanted this to end in the best possible way. The best possible way to do this is quietly from the inside out. This was our goal."
Experts who have watched similar standoffs in recent decades applauded Monier's strategy, because it minimized the risk of violence.
"When you have people who feel they have no other choice and they have weapons and supporters, you want to use time and strategy and subterfuge," said Brian Levin, the director of the Center for the Study of Hate Crime and Extremism at California State University, San Bernadino, who frequently trains law enforcement agencies in confronting extremists. Levin said Monier ran a "textbook" operation.
But the marshal's patient approach drew criticism from the Browns' neighbors in Plainfield, who tired of watching potentially dangerous strangers visit the couple and hearing gunshots in the woods. This summer, selectmen asked the marshals to resolve the standoff quickly, citing the increased risk to the community. The Browns' neighbors signed a petition asking the couple to stop entertaining so many guests.
Since Ed Brown took to his home in January, the marshals have had little visible presence in Plainfield. On two occasions, they blocked access to the couple's property. But they largely left the couple alone to host barbecues, speak with journalists and appear on a daily radio program.
They were able to attract helpers who stayed with them for weeks at a time, posting updates on blogs, shopping for groceries, and purchasing weapons and other supplies. According to court documents, supporters brought the couple at least three .50-caliber rifles, guns capable of shooting through body armor and able to accurately hit targets over long distances. Supporters also brought materials for explosives and traps, the documents say.
The Browns' home will remain a crime scene, Monier said, and marshals will continue to search the property for explosives and other evidence. When their operation is complete, it will be turned over to the U.S. Department of Treasury to help pay the couple's tax debts and penalties.
The couple's flamboyant statements and willingness to die brought them support from disparate sources. Pacifist members of the local Free State Project mixed with militiamen, religious gurus and "patriot" groups that shared the couple's suspicions about the truth of tax laws. Randy Weaver, the survivor of the deadly Ruby Ridge standoff, visited the couple and said he was ready to face the afterlife with them.
But the recent arrests of four key helpers muted support at the home this week, Monier said. At the time of their arrest, the Browns were alone . In a radio broadcast earlier that day, Elaine Brown had complained about a drop off in visitors.
But the Browns' rhetoric remained strong to the end. In the same radio broadcast, Ed Brown endorsed the idea of recruiting assassination squads to target key government enemies. On several recent occasions, he mentioned a hit list with more than 50 names that had been distributed to supporters in the case of his arrest.
JJ MacNab, a tax evasion expert who is writing a book on the tax protest movement, said the risk of violence may increase over the next few days as supporters vent their anger about the arrests.
"I think it's more dangerous for the judge, the prosecutor and whoever else is on that hit list today than it was yesterday," McNab said. "It is less dangerous for the marshals."
Yesterday, Monier stressed that marshals will continue to investigate ongoing threats posed by the Browns' supporters. He said their investigation remains open and that marshals will continue to watch individuals who helped the couple.
Several supporters said yesterday that marshals had knocked on their doors to inquire about what weapons they had and whether they would harm anyone on the Browns' behalf.
In a recording of one interview that was posted online yesterday, a deputy marshal warned a member of the Free State Project.
"I think you know what's been going on with the violence," the marshal's voice says in the recording. "That's been on the internet and all that stuff. We are not going to tolerate it. We are not going to tolerate it. This is your get out of jail card. The next time we come, you're going to come with us."
Several Free State Project members who have posted online comments about the case wrote yesterday that they were also contacted by marshals.
Shaun Kranish, an Illinois man who has raised money for the couple, visited the house and hosts a website devoted to rallying support, said that marshals had visited his workplace looking for him yesterday.
"I don't want to talk to them," he said in an online recording. "Because I don't want to talk to criminals. I have nothing to say to them. For the record, I've never done anything that's against the law, at least to my knowledge."
Kranish said yesterday he did not want to speak with the Monitor.
Monier confirmed yesterday that his deputies have conducted interviews, but said agents have not make any new arrests, though they may in the future
"We have deputies in the field. We are continuing our investigation," he said. "We'll go where the evidence takes us."
He also indicated that the Browns may face new charges for actions since their initial convictions. The couple was found guilty of conspiring to hide nearly $2 million that Elaine Brown earned as a dentist from authorities and dividing large financial transactions to avoid federal reporting requirements. Elaine Brown was also convicted of multiple counts of tax evasion and failing to withhold taxes from her dental office's employees.
"Unfortunately, the Browns have turned this into more than just a tax case," Monier said. "By their continuing actions, allegedly, to obstruct justice, to encourage others to assist them to obstruct justice, by making threats toward law enforcement and other government officials, they have turned this into more than a tax case."
The Browns were in transit to federal prisons yesterday, said Monier, who would not say where the Browns would be imprisoned until they had arrived at their destinations. They will begin serving 63-month sentences on the tax-related convictions.
"They were already convicted felons," Monier said. "Bear in mind, they were already afforded due process on serious charges."
Demo.