Liberty Dollar continued

[Doktor Avalanche]

Look around, liberty dollars are exchanged all over the place for merchandise.

All over the place?

Name two places in each state which accept libbies at face value for merchandise.

He can't, but let's watch him flounder anyway.

[SteveSy]

Let's see, I can buy $14 of silver for $20. a $6 mark up. A 43% mark-up.

What a chiselling, greedy b*stard von NotHaus is. a 43% mark up! Holy christ, ANYONE buying one of his items basically bent over and grabbed their ankles while von Nothaus reamed them.

A REPUTABLE dealer on $14 per ounce of silver would probably charge more in the $1 range, a 7% markup. So, in 2000, you could have bought 5 ounces of silver in medallion form for $100 from von NotHaus, or 6.5 ounces of silver for the same outlay from a reputable dealer.

Let's say silver climbs to $25 per ounce - your von NotHaus medallions would now be worth $125 based on silver content, while the silver purchased from a reputable dealer would be $162.50. In a nutshell, ANYONE who bought a von NotHaus product got ripped off and ANYONE proposing that they (the von NotHaus product) would have been a good inflation hedge is using questionable logic.

But, as P. T. Barnum noted.........

But a 1oz of silver isn't being circulated. When you buy silver bullion you're just sitting on it. LD is a currency so compare it to other currency. The fact is if Libby's were used widely people using them would have been much better off than if they circulated an FRN. You're just using right now logic totally evading the undeniable fact that the FRN has lost value over libbys in just a few short years and will continue to do so if NorFed isn't shut down.

[SteveSy]

Look around, liberty dollars are exchanged all over the place for merchandise.

All over the place?

Name two places in each state which accept libbies at face value for merchandise.

He can't, but let's watch him flounder anyway.

I'm not going to list two places in all 50 states ding-dong.

Here's a non-definitive list. I've seen stores in Houston and Pasadena with the liberty dollar sticker in the window so I know its not all of them.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Liberty_Dolla ... index.html

[Doktor Avalanche]

I'm not going to list two places in all 50 states ding-dong.

Here's a non-definitive list. I've seen stores in Houston and Pasadena with the liberty dollar sticker in the window so I know its not all of them.
http://www.the7thfire.com/Liberty_Dolla ... index.html

So you refer me to a tin-foil hat website that screams about "real" money?

Here's your sign, Steve:

[Nikki]

Do you ever bother to read the crap you post, Steve?

There are many more RCOs than these and more are signing up to bring REAL money back to America...and Canada....and.... Soon you will be making your house payment in Silver and Gold Liberty Dollars....at a Liberty Dollar Bank near you. There will be businesses and industries growing up that are paying their employees and staff in REAL money, fighting inflation caused by the ever declining US Dollar.

RCO --> Regional Currency Office -- buy and sell libbies

Any merchants there?

BREWED AWAKENINGS 64 E. Main Street - Newark (302) 454 1322
BETWEEN BOOKS 2703 Philadelphia Pk Claymont (302)798-3378
SILVER FOULK GETTY 1712 Foulk Road - Wilmington (302) 479-7842
SPRING RUN NATURAL FOODS Rte 1 S - Kennett Square, PA (610) 388-0500
UFFNER CONSULTING SERVICES & PROGRAMMING 406 Suburban Drive - Ste 143 - Newark (302) 562-7330
861 EVIDENCE T-SHIRTS 1812 Marsh Road Ste 6-177 Wilmington (302) 798-1831

Five in "greater Delaware" -- really great if you need to buy a T-shirt.

You still haven't answered how these merchants use the libbies to pay their suppliers and employees.

[SteveSy]

Do you ever bother to read the crap you post, Steve?

There are many more RCOs than these and more are signing up to bring REAL money back to America...and Canada....and.... Soon you will be making your house payment in Silver and Gold Liberty Dollars....at a Liberty Dollar Bank near you. There will be businesses and industries growing up that are paying their employees and staff in REAL money, fighting inflation caused by the ever declining US Dollar.

RCO --> Regional Currency Office -- buy and sell libbies

Any merchants there?

BREWED AWAKENINGS 64 E. Main Street - Newark (302) 454 1322
BETWEEN BOOKS 2703 Philadelphia Pk Claymont (302)798-3378
SILVER FOULK GETTY 1712 Foulk Road - Wilmington (302) 479-7842
SPRING RUN NATURAL FOODS Rte 1 S - Kennett Square, PA (610) 388-0500
UFFNER CONSULTING SERVICES & PROGRAMMING 406 Suburban Drive - Ste 143 - Newark (302) 562-7330
861 EVIDENCE T-SHIRTS 1812 Marsh Road Ste 6-177 Wilmington (302) 798-1831

Five in "greater Delaware" -- really great if you need to buy a T-shirt.

You still haven't answered how these merchants use the libbies to pay their suppliers and employees.

Why should I answer that question?

Who made the claim they're currently a total replacement for Libbys?
Libbys haven't been around that long, naturally the longer the currency is in the market the more merchants will accept them.

Looks like in Austin TX you can buy just about anything, including a car.

[fortinbras]

But a 1oz of silver isn't being circulated.

Actually the US Mint issues an official US coin, the Silver Eagle, like von NotHaus's LD it's one ounce of pure silver -- except, unlike von NotHaus's LD, the law guarantees its authenticity and purity -- and presently this one ounce of pure silver is selling, as a collector's uncirculated proof, at about $25 ....
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/st ... gory=10191
By the way, the Canadian govt is similarly turning out a Silver Maple Leaf coin, also one ounce of pure silver, available at roughly the same price and, unlike von NotHaus's LD, it is protected by both Canadian and US law as to its authenticity.

Oddly enough, von NotHaus is presently selling his one-ounce silver LD at twice that price - $50.
http://www.freemarketmoney.org/catalog/ ... 78c92cd0af

Now von NotHaus's price of $50 is twice the price of the much more reliable Silver Eagle, and somewhat more than twice the market price of silver bullion. Yet he claims his drachmas are "inflation proof" -- seems to me the inflation has already been built in.

[SteveSy]

But a 1oz of silver isn't being circulated.

Actually the US Mint issues an official US coin, the Silver Eagle, like von NotHaus's LD it's one ounce of pure silver -- except, unlike von NotHaus's LD, the law guarantees its authenticity and purity -- and presently this one ounce of pure silver is selling, as a collector's uncirculated proof, at about $25 ....
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/st ... gory=10191
By the way, the Canadian govt is similarly turning out a Silver Maple Leaf coin, also one ounce of pure silver, available at roughly the same price and, unlike von NotHaus's LD, it is protected by both Canadian and US law as to its authenticity.

Oddly enough, von NotHaus is presently selling his one-ounce silver LD at twice that price - $50.
http://www.freemarketmoney.org/catalog/ ... 78c92cd0af

Now von NotHaus's price of $50 is twice the price of the much more reliable Silver Eagle, and somewhat more than twice the market price of silver bullion. Yet he claims his drachmas are "inflation proof" -- seems to me the inflation has already been built in.

lol....

Tell me this, how much purchasing power has the FRN lost in the last 10 years? How much since its inception? Maybe you'll realize having a currency backed by nothing means your money will always lose value vs. a currency that's back by something will almost certainly always gain in value. You may not like the idea that you can not trade these things in the day after minting for an equal value in silver at spot price but its undeniable Liberty dollars have and will continue to have an edge over FRN's in the long run, within 5-10 years in use.

[Nikki]

Steve:

How can a currency backed by a fixed supply of anything handle the economic need for an expanding money supply?

[.]

signing up to bring REAL money back to America...and Canada

There won't be much left for the Mounties after the DoJ is done with him, he'll be both old and broke. Sorta like Ed: imprisoned clan Brown.

[SteveSy]

SteveSy, are you saying that with a gold/silver/precious metal standsard there would be no inflation?

Well?

It would certainly limit it. All the FRN does is allow the Fed to spread the economic turmoil over a longer period, or move it to a later day. There will always be economic ups and downs. We haven't seen the final result of what the Fed has accomplished, wait another decade or two. They're so deep in to the abyss they'll never get out. They'll keep hiding the true failure by artificially inflating the economy with stimulus packages and the like, its the last gasp of a doomed system. When SS and Medicare totally collapses in about 10 years all that money will no longer be inflating the GDP and there wont be any more money available for stimulus. The government dumps trillions in to the economic system via those programs and it artificially boosts the GDP. They can't continue to do it, it's simply not possible, too many are going to be jumping on to the welfare system in the next decade. The government will begin to lose a significant portion of its tax revenues when it needs it most. Everyone will start to hunker down, not spending not borrowing, waiting out the economic recession causing the system to feed on itself causing more people to default on their loans because of unemployment causing the system to constrict even further to try and stop the hemorrhaging.

Just my opinion of course but all the signs are there. If it does happen the dollar will be virtually worthless because no one will want to lend us money and no one will want our money. They'll want gold. All it will take is China to start dumping treasury securities, which they probably quietly are, and you'll know the fat lady is walking on stage and is going to start signing.

[fortinbras]

A restoration of the gold standard wouldn't do much for the US economy. The value of gold, like the value of US currency, depends a good deal on tradition and trust. You can't eat gold, or burn it to keep warm, or stuff cracks in the walls with it. Its monetary value -- like the big round stones of the Yaps or the tulip bulbs of the 17th century Dutch -- is entirely dependent on what other people think of it.

Unlike US currency, the amount of gold in the marketplace is not controllable by the US govt. The US is not even the world's leading producer of gold -- it comes in third after South Africa and Russia, two countries we seldom expect to yield to our own best interests. (Pretty much the same with silver.) A major gold strike in Russia would pretty much cheapen the gold in Fort Knox.

The gold standard is very specific as to its asset and collateral: gold. US currency can fall back on a wide variety of assets held by the US govt: oil reserves, national parks, public lands, etc.

[SteveSy]

A restoration of the gold standard wouldn't do much for the US economy. The value of gold, like the value of US currency, depends a good deal on tradition and trust. You can't eat gold, or burn it to keep warm, or stuff cracks in the walls with it. Its monetary value -- like the big round stones of the Yaps or the tulip bulbs of the 17th century Dutch -- is entirely dependent on what other people think of it.

Gold is rare stones are not.

Unlike US currency, the amount of gold in the marketplace is not controllable by the US govt. The US is not even the world's leading producer of gold -- it comes in third after South Africa and Russia, two countries we seldom expect to yield to our own best interests. (Pretty much the same with silver.) A major gold strike in Russia would pretty much cheapen the gold in Fort Knox.

Lol...right. There is no "gold strike" that would significantly affect the price of gold. That may have been true a 100 years ago not today. Countries and the central banks still rely heavily on gold as the ultimate method of reserves and payment of debt. Our current gold reserves are about 260,320,001 oz. The entire gold rush of 1848-1855 is estimated to be around 28.6 millions ounces.. As you can see there is so much gold in the world system its highly unlikely any "strike" would significantly affect the price of gold.

The gold standard is very specific as to its asset and collateral: gold. US currency can fall back on a wide variety of assets held by the US govt: oil reserves, national parks, public lands, etc.

Those assets are actually trivial. The government could liquidate every bit of it and it wouldn't even put dent in the national debt. The only real asset is the American taxpayer and that's what give the FRN its value.

[TheSaint]

All the FRN does is allow the Fed to spread the economic turmoil over a longer period, or move it to a later day.

We haven't seen the final result of what the Fed has accomplished, wait another decade or two. They're so deep in to the abyss they'll never get out. They'll keep hiding the true failure by artificially inflating the economy with stimulus packages and the like, its the last gasp of a doomed system.

When SS and Medicare totally collapses in about 10 years

If it does happen the dollar will be virtually worthless because no one will want to lend us money and no one will want our money. They'll want gold. All it will take is China to start dumping treasury securities, which they probably quietly are, and you'll know the fat lady is walking on stage and is going to start signing.

Once again a goldbug reveals his true motivation -- his fervent hope that society will collapse, just so everyone else can be as broke as he is. And in SteveSy's case, so he can be right about something -- which would have to be the first time in his life.

[SteveSy]

All the FRN does is allow the Fed to spread the economic turmoil over a longer period, or move it to a later day.

We haven't seen the final result of what the Fed has accomplished, wait another decade or two. They're so deep in to the abyss they'll never get out. They'll keep hiding the true failure by artificially inflating the economy with stimulus packages and the like, its the last gasp of a doomed system.

When SS and Medicare totally collapses in about 10 years

If it does happen the dollar will be virtually worthless because no one will want to lend us money and no one will want our money. They'll want gold. All it will take is China to start dumping treasury securities, which they probably quietly are, and you'll know the fat lady is walking on stage and is going to start signing.

Once again a goldbug reveals his true motivation -- his fervent hope that society will collapse, just so everyone else can be as broke as he is. And in SteveSy's case, so he can be right about something -- which would have to be the first time in his life.

I don't hope it will collapse, my kids will suffer big time. I'll be dead before any meaningful change takes place.

[Judge Roy Bean]

.... I'll be dead before any meaningful change takes place.

So will everyone else, Steve. No one is going to mess with it.

[.]

Once again a goldbug reveals his true motivation -- his fervent hope that society will collapse

That's probably the underlying wish of many of them. When I was 15, I saw the same possiblities, and that was long before the internet. By the time I was 30, I had made millions and retired despite that inevitability of collapse, which I had begun to regard with more than some suspicion. Now, at 50+ I fully understand their miscellaneous delusions about collapse.

But, they are always fun to laugh at. As they will always will be. And almost always have been.

[Demosthenes]

Bye thread.