LostHead noob goes down the flusher too

[Joey Smith]

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: IRS changed my return!

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I am a first time CtC filer. I got this response in the mail today and it sort of took me by suprise.


"We Changed Your Total Estimated Tax and Payments and Credits"

"We changed your 2007 Estimated Tax Total reported on your return. Estimated Tax Total may include Estimated Tax Payments, credit applied from another tax year, or payments recieved with and extension of time to file. As a result of these changes, your balance is $.00."


I work at TxDOT for the last four years and on April 19, I filed four returns, '06 and '07 were original returns and '04 and '05 were amended returns. I previously had been making payments toward what I "owed" from tax year '04 and '05 but I stopped making payments and asked for all of it back.

I don't feel like much of a warrior now because I don't know what to do next. Has anyone seen this response before? Should I just wait and see if they send a resonse for the other three returns? I wonder why they didn't send me my $ back or demand payment. I expected a check or a demand for payment but not this. Can anyone PLEASE point me in the right direction? TIA

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:

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Apparently they didn't apply any of the $3,987.72 (from line 7 of form 4852) to any past due amounts or they would have stated that. Right?

So that means that they probably already processed my '04 and '05 amended returns or they wouldn't be showing a zero balance. Right?

I can't get them on the phone. I alway get the "we're too busy to talk to" message.

I am trying to prepare a response but I'm not sure where to start.

I guess a zero balance is better than a notice of intent to levy but it's not accurate. I paid $3987 in '07; $3290 in '06; $2167 in '05; and $4092 in '04 and I want it back!

I didn't really expect a refund from '04 because it's been more than three years (just barely). But what gives them the right to just change my return like that?!

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Richardf614



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 615
Location: Ohio
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject:

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How much were you paying on what you "Owed"? Any amounts refunded would be applied towards past liabilities.

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject:

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Richardf614 wrote:
How much were you paying on what you "Owed"? Any amounts refunded would be applied towards past liabilities.

Thank for your reply! I can use all the help I can get on this.

At the time of my filing all four returns I "owed" $1239 for '04 and $1569 for '05 and was paying $100/month. On my amende '04 return I itemized all the payments I've made and requested all of it returned of course.

The last monthly statement I got was 04/02/2008. The only thing I got in May was this "your balance is zero" notice but it looks to me like this notice is only regarding my 2007 return. I don't know. It looks like they just zeroed out my 2007 return which is not really a victory. I'm still waiting to see if I still "owe" and what about '06?

Intresting that on Thursday, May 22, 2008 I went to "where's my refund?" and it said my refund of $3987 was processed and I would recieve it May 27. Then, the week of May 27 it changed to "we can't provide any information on your refund" and I got this "we changed your return" notice.

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Richardf614



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 615
Location: Ohio
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject:

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MaPMaKaR wrote:
Richardf614 wrote:
How much were you paying on what you "Owed"? Any amounts refunded would be applied towards past liabilities.

Thank for your reply! I can use all the help I can get on this.

At the time of my filing all four returns I "owed" $1239 for '04 and $1569 for '05 and was paying $100/month. On my amende '04 return I itemized all the payments I've made and requested all of it returned of course.

The last monthly statement I got was 04/02/2008. The only thing I got in May was this "your balance is zero" notice but it looks to me like this notice is only regarding my 2007 return. I don't know. It looks like they just zeroed out my 2007 return which is not really a victory. I'm still waiting to see if I still "owe" and what about '06?

Intresting that on Thursday, May 22, 2008 I went to "where's my refund?" and it said my refund of $3987 was processed and I would recieve it May 27. Then, the week of May 27 it changed to "we can't provide any information on your refund" and I got this "we changed your return" notice.


Your refund from 2007 should have paid your unpaid liability and returned
to you over $1,000. I have no idea what they are doing. Were you on a
payment plan for back taxes? If so, this could have caused the error. I would find out the balance of your unpaid liability, if it is zero, then you have more refund due from 07.

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:16 am Post subject:

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Yup it looks like they are messing with me. I don't know what to do at this point. I need to formulate a response but I don't know what they are doing or what to do next.

I used all this good Ctc info to file correctly and now I feel sort of hung out to dry on my own. So used a lot of good info in the book and now I'm stuck... with no help. The book didn't cover this and no one in the forums or googlegroups seems to have a clue so far...

HELP!

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:20 am Post subject:

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So I had to be the one that gets hit with a new Beast tactic that no one has ever heard of. Just my luck.

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zsing82



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 2
Location: South Bend, IN
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: Re: IRS changed my return!

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Because you worked for the Texas D.O.T., wouldn't that be considered the functions of a public office? If that is the case, then I'm not sure CtC would help out much. While it still remains a precise explanation of the law, I would have to say that the income tax laws definitely would apply. HOwever, since Texas does not institute a state income tax, I'm not sure. But it would only make sense that working for a government office such as the Dept. of Transportation could only be construed as the functions of a public office, even if it is a public office of the state of Texas.

MaPMaKaR wrote:
I am a first time CtC filer. I got this response in the mail today and it sort of took me by suprise.


"We Changed Your Total Estimated Tax and Payments and Credits"

"We changed your 2007 Estimated Tax Total reported on your return. Estimated Tax Total may include Estimated Tax Payments, credit applied from another tax year, or payments recieved with and extension of time to file. As a result of these changes, your balance is $.00."


I work at TxDOT for the last four years and on April 19, I filed four returns, '06 and '07 were original returns and '04 and '05 were amended returns. I previously had been making payments toward what I "owed" from tax year '04 and '05 but I stopped making payments and asked for all of it back.

I don't feel like much of a warrior now because I don't know what to do next. Has anyone seen this response before? Should I just wait and see if they send a resonse for the other three returns? I wonder why they didn't send me my $ back or demand payment. I expected a check or a demand for payment but not this. Can anyone PLEASE point me in the right direction? TIA


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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject:

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Interesting point zsing82 but that's probably a discussion for another thread. I did research the definition of "The State" before I filed. It's in the book.

But how can I tell them that they don't have the right to change amounts on my return? They didn't change the tax amount as I might have expected but instead they zeroed out the payments made which is really messing with my head.

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DavidDiemer



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

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You can file a form with the IRS asking for your task balance (one form per year, please). That way, you'll get the exact status of each of your returns. You'll also find out if you have any money that's due you as well as any money that's been credited to your account.

I'd certainly start there to see where you stood. Since you've got some time, get them to tell you in each tax year what your status is. More information is better than wondering...


As for the State employee issue, the law states (for FICA, § 3121) you worked in the USA or a State (where it's defined as Washington DC, territories, possessions, and federal property) and/or (for income tax purposes, § 3401) that you were working as a FEDERAL employee.

Well, since none of the foregoing is true, even as a State employee, you are not eligible for federal income tax on your base earnings.

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esmithers1



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: IRS changed my return!

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zsing82 wrote:
Because you worked for the Texas D.O.T., wouldn't that be considered the functions of a public office? If that is the case, then I'm not sure CtC would help out much. While it still remains a precise explanation of the law, I would have to say that the income tax laws definitely would apply. HOwever, since Texas does not institute a state income tax, I'm not sure. But it would only make sense that working for a government office such as the Dept. of Transportation could only be construed as the functions of a public office, even if it is a public office of the state of Texas.

MaPMaKaR wrote:
I am a first time CtC filer. I got this response in the mail today and it sort of took me by suprise.

TIA



Working for the TxDOT does not make you an "employee" or otherwise privileged. IRS is federal and can only tax State(s) as defined in the IRC which does not include the fifty Union States. The Federal Government has no authority to tax the union states like Texas.

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MaPMaKaR



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:

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Thank you for your replies. I think I'm clear that I do not fit the IRC definiton of "employee" but that's not the point here.

What makes them think that they can just change numbers on my return?

What would YOU do if you got a similar notice?

Sheesh, it seems to me if they were going to just change numbers that they would change the "income" so that it would show I owe. Why would they change the "payments" zero? It doesn't make any sense to me. Does this make sense to anyone? I am perplexed.

The notice says "If you think we made a mistake, please call us at the number listed above." Maybe I should call and politely tell them that I think they made a mistake and to please change it back. But maybe it's a trap? What do you think?

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Kensei



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 233
Location: Michigan
Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject:

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I am trying to understand what they're saying. Sorry if you already covered it.

Did you make 'estimated tax' payments (prepayments) during 2007, paying ahead for potential liability, and now rather than $XXXX, they say the total you paid ahead is ZERO? If so, is it possible that they used the prepayments to settle the old alleged 'debt' to make the amount available for refund 'zero'? Or, maybe they figured they'd rather keep your 'refund' than have you keep sending them $100/month.

Where did the money go? I would definitely not 'agree' with that.

One possible idea could be to obtain your bank statements/check record from 2007 to show that the payments you sent in were cashed by the Treasury, so the total could not be 'zero'. Another poster mentioned getting a record from each of the years that are 'out there' to see what all you may owe or are due back.

[grixit]

Strange how the book doesn't cover the part where it turns out the stuff in the book doesn't work.

[Quixote]

Strange how the book doesn't cover the part where it turns out the stuff in the book doesn't work.

As I noted in the thread "The Lostheads built a nuke to swat a fly", MaPMaKaR's problem is more fundamental. He cannot read. And even after the IRS pointed out his mistake, it hasn't occurred to him to invest the 5 seconds it would take to see if they were right. Kensai has almost stumbled across the truth, but he can can be counted on to wander off in another direction before proximity to the truth affects his thinking.

The notice says "If you think we made a mistake, please call us at the number listed above." Maybe I should call and politely tell them that I think they made a mistake and to please change it back.

Unfortunately, that will not work for poor MaPMaKaR. The IRS notices for an assessment under IRC 6201(a)(3), the section applicable to his situation, are identical to the notices for assessments under IRC §6213(b)(1). The "call us if you disagree and we'll put it back" provision in IRC §6213(b)(2) is expressly inapplicable to assessments under 6201(a)(3).

[ASITStands]

Also of consideration would be his default on the installment plan. After the third month, the Service will consider him in default and issue a notice of levy. Right now, he's mystified as to why he hasn't received a demand for payment. Just wait! It will come.

[grixit]

Someone needs to make a map.