Am I figuring this correctly?

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MMW

Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by MMW »

Can somebody help me get my mind around a bit of tax scheme tomfoolery? Here is the scoop: a coworker and I have been paying a young man (let's call him Bob) to do some work for us (strictly legal, no drug dealing or anything of the like) and generally liked his work. Our employer, on our recommendation, hired Bob to do a job. At the completion of the work, one of our clerical type ladies asked him to fill out a W-9 so we would be able to properly dot our i's etc. At this point, Bob becomes unworkable. He forwarded an "opinion" from his "attorney" that he did not need to fill out any governmental paperwork whatsoever and then demanded to be paid only in "lawful money" He then claimed our employer would be committing perjury to inform the government that we had paid him X dollars when only received a fraction of that amount. His (strong) implication was that he was filling an smaller amount based on 'lawful money.' We've come to find out the checks we had been paying him were cashed at a local gold dealer and our employer is not the only one to have this issue with Bob. Bob's relative (and attorney) seems to be a paralegal for a TP group.

Is this really the new tax scam? Claiming that the US is still somehow on the gold standard and paying taxes based on that? Consider that $100k in income equates to about 125 oz of gold at today's prices and this bunch Bob is mixed up in is claiming an oz of gold is really only worth ~20 dollars in 'lawful money', therefore Bob has only "made" 2500 dollars for the year and files taxes accordingly. I wonder if he's claiming the EITC? :shock:

Or am I missing something completely innocent?

I'd like to keep names and non-essential details out of this, if you please. Thanks in advance for all the help.
The Operative
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by The Operative »

I've two phrases for you.

TURN HIM IN TO THE IRS!
and
FIRE HIM!
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Demosthenes
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Demosthenes »

It's a scam that's gone in and out of fashion for more than 30 years. Here's an example of a case from 1981.
666 F.2d 1306, *; 1981 U.S. App. LEXIS 15392, **;
81-2 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) P9813; 49 A.F.T.R.2d (RIA) 379

GARY JAMES JOSLIN, Plaintiff-Appellant, v. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Defendant-Appellee

No. 81-1374

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS, TENTH CIRCUIT

666 F.2d 1306; 1981 U.S. App. LEXIS 15392; 81-2 U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) P9813; 49 A.F.T.R.2d (RIA) 379

November 18, 1981, Submitted
December 9, 1981, Decided

PRIOR HISTORY: [**1] Appeal from the United States District Court For the District of Utah (D.C. No. C 80-305W)

COUNSEL: Gary James Joslin, pro se.

John F. Murray, Acting Asst. Atty. Gen., Michael L. Paup, Richard Farber, and Richard D. Buik, Attys., Tax Div. Dept. of Justice, Washington, D. C., for defendant-appellee.

JUDGES: Before SETH, Chief Judge and BARRETT and LOGAN, Circuit Judges.

OPINION BY: PER CURIAM
OPINION


[*1306] After examining the briefs and the appellate record, this three-judge panel has determined unanimously that oral argument would not be of material assistance in the determination of this appeal. See Fed.R.App.P. 34(a); Tenth Circuit R. 10(e). The cause is therefore ordered submitted without oral argument.

[**2] Gary James Joslin (taxpayer) appeals from a district court judgment dismissing his suit for a tax refund. The only issue on appeal is whether, for income tax purposes, a taxpayer who specifically bargains to be paid for his services in silver dollars must report them at their face value or at their higher numismatic value.

The facts are undisputed. The taxpayer, an attorney, agreed to provide his client with legal services if the client would pay him in silver dollars. The taxpayer rendered 20 hours of legal services and received 200 silver dollars as his fee. He admits that he routinely bills his services at the rate of 50 "one-dollar" Federal Reserve [*1307] notes per hour. 1 He also admits that since one silver dollar had a numismatic value of five Federal Reserve notes at the time his client paid him, his client could have paid him 1,000 Federal Reserve notes rather than 200 silver dollars. Nonetheless, the taxpayer reported only $ 200 as income from this transaction on his federal income tax return. He was assessed a $ 252 tax deficiency, the additional amount of taxes due if his income from this transaction was regarded as $ 1,000. He paid the assessment and brought [**3] suit in district court for a tax refund.

FOOTNOTES

1. Taxpayer insists that Federal Reserve notes are not "dollars" and carefully tailored his admissions to reflect this belief. We rejected this contention in United States v. Ware, 608 F.2d 400 (10th Cir. 1979), in which Mr. Joslin represented Mr. Ware.


After a hearing before a United States Magistrate, the magistrate recommended to the district court that the suit be dismissed. Focusing on the value the taxpayer attributed to the silver dollars, the magistrate found that appellant "accepted as full payment for the services and in lieu of $ 1,000 in Federal Reserve notes 200 silver dollars." (R. I, 218). The district court accepted the magistrate's report and recommendation, and dismissed the suit with prejudice. This appeal followed.

Although we have found no cases addressing whether silver dollars received for services are taxable at their face value or their higher numismatic value, general tax principles aid our analysis. HN1 Gross income certainly includes [**4] compensation for services. I.R.C. § 61(a)(1). If a taxpayer receives property other than cash as compensation, the taxpayer's income is measured by the property's fair market value. Treas.Reg. § 1.61-2(d)(1),T.D. 7554, 1978-2 C.B. 263. Unquestionably, a silver dollar has both a face value and a separate value reflecting the coin's numismatic worth. To this extent a silver dollar combines the characteristics of cash and property. HN2 When a taxpayer bargains for and benefits from the higher market value of silver coins, he or she must include this amount in income. That silver dollars are designated legal tender with a nominal value of one dollar acceptable at the United States Treasury to discharge one dollar of debt, or exchangeable for a one dollar Federal Reserve note, does not require a different result. 2 See Rev.Rul. 76-249, 1976-2 C.B. 21; cf. Warren C. Cordner v. United States, (1980-1) U.S. Tax Cas. (CCH) P 9441 (C.D.Cal.1980) (gold coin dividend taxed at numismatic value); California Fed. Life Ins. Co. (1976) Tax Ct.Rep.Dec. (P.H.) § 76.8 (U.S. gold coins accepted as payment for Swiss francs are evaluated for tax purposes at their numismatic value);Rev.Rul. 78-360, [**5] 1978-2 C.B. 228 (silver coins held by decedent valued for estate tax purposes at their fair market value). In the instant case the taxpayer in effect has admitted and the IRS has agreed that the silver dollars, at the time of the transaction, had a fair market value of five times their face value. Under the facts of this case, the taxpayer cannot claim that he intended to benefit or actually benefitted only to the extent of the coins' face value.

FOOTNOTES

2. Indeed, Congress has provided for the Treasury's sale of silver dollars at the fair market value of the coins, rather than at their face value. Bank Holding Company Act Amendments of 1970, P.L. 91-607, § 205, 84 Stat. 1769 (1970); Sen.Rep.No. 91-1084, 91st Cong., 2d Sess. reprinted in (1970) U.S.Code Cong. & Ad.News 5519, 5538-39.

AFFIRMED.
Demo.
MMW

Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by MMW »

The Operative wrote:I've two phrases for you.

TURN HIM IN TO THE IRS!
and
FIRE HIM!
With the noises he's been making, the IRS will be aware of him soon enough. Needles to say, we won't be using him for anything else in the future. Most of the work in Bob's chosen profession is of the independent contractor variety, which I assume makes this deal easier to pull off.
MMW

Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by MMW »

Demosthenes wrote:It's a scam that's gone in and out of fashion for more than 30 years. Here's an example of a case from 1981.
Thanks! I'll probably be haring from him soon, so a little reading material to pass his way should at least get him to leave me alone. If not that, then I'll threaten him with a 10-99. :twisted:
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by The Operative »

BTW, welcome to Quatloos!
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by ASITStands »

MMW wrote:
Demosthenes wrote:It's a scam that's gone in and out of fashion for more than 30 years. Here's an example of a case from 1981.
Thanks! I'll probably be haring from him soon, so a little reading material to pass his way should at least get him to leave me alone. If not that, then I'll threaten him with a 10-99. :twisted:
If he's been paid $600 or more, you have a liability under IRC 6041A to file a 1099-MISC.
fortinbras
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by fortinbras »

I'd love to see that letter from his lawyer, or at least tell us the lawyer's name and address. I have my suspicions.
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webhick
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by webhick »

MMW,

Just tell Bob that much like the item his name stands for, he can easily be replaced by a quieter, more efficient, and compliant model - and if he doesn't like it, he can shove it in his smuggling porthole and fire it up like an illegal Chinese firecracker.

Hrmm...you may want to leave that last bit out, lest you spend all day scraping Bits of Bob (B.O.B. for short) off the ceiling and washing him out of the groovy shag carpeting in the office.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Mr. Mephistopheles »

fortinbras wrote:I'd love to see that letter from his lawyer, or at least tell us the lawyer's name and address. I have my suspicions.
Apparently he's not a lawyer at all:
Bob's relative (and attorney) seems to be a paralegal for a TP group.
Is it illegal to falsely claim to be an attorney?
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by LPC »

Mr. Mephistopheles wrote:Is it illegal to falsely claim to be an attorney?
Holding yourself out to the public as a lawyer can be the unauthorized practice of law and can be a crime in those states in which UPL is a crime.

Appearing in court and falsely claiming to be a lawyer is clearly UPL and would be a crime in those states in which UPL is a crime.

Regardless of criminality, misrepresenting yourself to a court to be a lawyer is a Very Bad Thing, just like any other misrepresentation to a court. The usual result is an injunction against practicing law and against appearing in court, but other sanctions are also possible.
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MMW

Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by MMW »

Mr. Mephistopheles wrote: Is it illegal to falsely claim to be an attorney?
The "attorney"/uncle in this case has never held himself out to me as a lawyer, only presented by Bob as "his attorney" :roll: further searches on this guy seem to indicate he's been involved with a few of the bigger name tax protesters around, but only as a support role. Bob's uncle seems to have been dinged a few years ago for not filling returns, but that's about the most of it. The principles he preaches don't affect him (who has already made a fortune) the same way they affect, say, Bob who has to go out and earn his living.

That's the real rub here, Bob is a good kid and a hard worker who has been fed a bunch of bull from his uncle and is headed only to bad times ahead. At the best he has traded much future employment for living (temporarily) a tax free life; at the worst he has traded future freedom for a cause he doesn't fully understand, led down that path by a zealot he trusts. If Bob gets turned in/prosecuted, I'd imagine that Bob's uncle will remain free to lure others into his little war waged with cutsey arguments and other peoples money/freedom. Net effect: zero to all people other than Bob.

Although, a protracted legal battle over Bob's (mis)fortune might well drain resources available to draw others into this nonsense. Oy.
Kimokeo

Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Kimokeo »

When you complete the 1099, be sure the address provided isn't bogus.

If you have a phone number and it was a good number, add that to the 1099- can't hurt.

Keep copies of any written request for the W-9 in case IRS asks for proof you made such a request. If you haven't done it in writing, do it now for your records. Keep records of undelivered mail, too - don't throw it out.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Mr. Mephistopheles »

LPC wrote:
Mr. Mephistopheles wrote:Is it illegal to falsely claim to be an attorney?
Holding yourself out to the public as a lawyer can be the unauthorized practice of law and can be a crime in those states in which UPL is a crime.

Appearing in court and falsely claiming to be a lawyer is clearly UPL and would be a crime in those states in which UPL is a crime.

Regardless of criminality, misrepresenting yourself to a court to be a lawyer is a Very Bad Thing, just like any other misrepresentation to a court. The usual result is an injunction against practicing law and against appearing in court, but other sanctions are also possible.
Thanks. I see below where MMW states that the "uncle" never presented himself as an attorney, but that the TP Bob referenced "uncle" as his attorney.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Mr. Mephistopheles »

MMW wrote:
Mr. Mephistopheles wrote: Is it illegal to falsely claim to be an attorney?
The "attorney"/uncle in this case has never held himself out to me as a lawyer, only presented by Bob as "his attorney" :roll: further searches on this guy seem to indicate he's been involved with a few of the bigger name tax protesters around, but only as a support role. Bob's uncle seems to have been dinged a few years ago for not filling returns, but that's about the most of it. The principles he preaches don't affect him (who has already made a fortune) the same way they affect, say, Bob who has to go out and earn his living.

That's the real rub here, Bob is a good kid and a hard worker who has been fed a bunch of bull from his uncle and is headed only to bad times ahead. At the best he has traded much future employment for living (temporarily) a tax free life; at the worst he has traded future freedom for a cause he doesn't fully understand, led down that path by a zealot he trusts. If Bob gets turned in/prosecuted, I'd imagine that Bob's uncle will remain free to lure others into his little war waged with cutsey arguments and other peoples money/freedom. Net effect: zero to all people other than Bob.

Although, a protracted legal battle over Bob's (mis)fortune might well drain resources available to draw others into this nonsense. Oy.
Thanks for the clarification. It seems a lot of TP's fall into the trap that Bob is stuck in. As has been said many times here, "if it sounds too good to be true...".
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by grixit »

Obviously the best way to help Bob is to give him the information that what he's doing will get him into trouble. And there's plenty of that information here. Having read many discriptions of similar cases, i think the best time to approach him with the printouts will be after he receives the first letter from the IRS. The problem is presenting the information in such a way as to enlighten him, not drive him deeper into defensive paranoia.

Good Luck, for his sake.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Bashful »

Also, if he refuses to give you his SSN or fill out a W-4 or W-9, as an employer, you are required to withhold from the payments as if he was a single person claiming no exemptions. This is called back up withholding and you pay it on a form 945 (IRC 31.3402(f)(2)(e)-1.
MMW

Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by MMW »

So this would be similar to the Kahre case then? Except for the thing of skipping the actual, you know, getting paid in gold dollars and just claiming the converted amount?

Wouldn't the Cheek defense be pretty hard to maintain in this case?

This stuff is fascinating and strangely addicting.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by Mr. Mephistopheles »

MMW wrote:So this would be similar to the Kahre case then? Except for the thing of skipping the actual, you know, getting paid in gold dollars and just claiming the converted amount?

Wouldn't the Cheek defense be pretty hard to maintain in this case?

This stuff is fascinating and strangely addicting.
Yes, it certainly is both. From one layman to another layman (I presume 'man'), there is much to be learned from the experts here on Quatloos, as well as entertaining general discussion of non tax related matters. I extend a belated welcome.
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Re: Am I figuring this correctly?

Post by LPC »

Bashful wrote:Also, if he refuses to give you his SSN or fill out a W-4 or W-9, as an employer, you are required to withhold from the payments as if he was a single person claiming no exemptions. This is called back up withholding and you pay it on a form 945 (IRC 31.3402(f)(2)(e)-1.
Technical nitpick:

I believe that what you are describing is normal withholding from wages, not "backup withholding."

"Backup withholding" is defined by section 3406, and is somewhat different. It is withholding of income tax from interest, dividends, and other "reportable transactions" if the payee has not provided a proper TIN, or for other reasons.

The details of backup withholding are reported on a Form 1099. Form 945 is the form used to transmit withheld taxes (both backup withholding and regular withholding) to the IRS.

See http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc307.html for the IRS explanation of backup withholding.
Dan Evans
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(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
"Nothing is more terrible than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.