Bob Hurt, Tommy Cryer, "secret" meetings, etc.

[Famspear]

On 27 September 2008, Bob Hurt wrote, in a thread entitled The "Becraft Dilemma" and How to Creme the Tax Defier Initiative, at http://groups.google.com/group/Lawmen:

The "Becraft Dilemma" and How to Creme the Tax Defier Initiative

Regarding the DOJ's Tax Defier Initiative

I refer to http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv08275.htm (see text below) which outlines the national tax defier initiative. About 6 months ago the DOJ started stepping up efforts to bring tax defiers to justice. The document cites "decades of legal precedent" that proves tax defiers wrong and the IRS/DOJ/Judiciary triumvirate defiantly right.


The Becraft Dilemma

This morning Larry Becraft told he he believes tax protester (defier) "gurus" set the stage for the legal precedents against tax defiance by doing a bad job of fighting the injustice of implementation of convoluted tax laws. Had they patiently built and followed a good legal strategy and used good lawyer techniques, they might have won, he claims. Now, having lost, they created precedent that closes that hole, virtually "forever."

I call this the "Becraft Dilemma."

Becraft thinks only a few holes remain, and he doesn't want to talk about them because some whizbang untalented defiers will use them to challenge tax abuse, and then lose to the DOJ, creating another precedent and closing another hole.

I can't help agreeing with Larry, particularly not when I look at the mountain of insane precedents supporting the idea that it is okay to make the people of America into tax slaves by direct taxation under the guise of constitutionality.

Cryer's High Council to Open up the Remaining Holes

That, by the way, is why Tom Cryer has called patriot group leaders to a secret location on a semi-secret date in the near future for a high Council meeting. He wants to discuss how to penetrate the remaining holes and use some test cases to start getting remedy against IRS, DOJ and Judiciary's use of income tax slavery to abuse American liberties and pay for one bail-out after another.


The Remedy for Bad Precedent - Eliminate Stare Decisis

The fact is: many "frivolous" tax defier arguments have rock solid bases. Precedent by bad judges makes it seem otherwise. Regardless of what Tom Cryer and Larry Becraft come up with to battle IRS abuses, we need to go to our legislature and make them overturn the principle of "stare decisis."

Bottom line, we have way too many deluded and crooked judges for "stare decisis" to constitute a good way to create legal meaning. The courts have used it to say the laws and constitutions mean the opposite of what they specifically declare. And now the rest of us have become lemmings in following those bad laws created by the judiciary.

In Bob Schulze's case, for example the Supremes refused to hear the question of whether the government must listen to and meaningfully answer petitions for redress of grievance guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. So that means we can seek redress only through the courts. And in the case of Jack Thompson, the Florida Supremes have denied him the right to file any pleadings. How's that for respecting our right to access the courts and petition for redress?

Our legislatures MUST change the laws regarding judicial power, particularly "stare decisis" or "legal precedent."

My proposal to the Congress and State Legislatures:

1. Every ruling ceases to have legal force and effect one year after rendered unless the legislature specifically endorses it through clarification of enacted law.

2. The courts must hear and consider full litigation and argument of the matter if not addressed specifically by Congress within that year.

3. Panel court rulings and opinions have no "stare decisis" (precedent) effect at all unless rendered unanimously. That means 5 to 4 Supreme Court rulings affect only the specific case at hand.

4. NO court shall "lose," hide, or seal ANY case or its rulings or documents. No exceptions. Period. Not even in cases involving undercover agents or children or national security.

5. No ruling has any force or effect unless signed by any and all judges in the case.

6. All government attorneys of every stripe must assist citizens in bringing secret evidence of government crimes to grand juries.

Bob Hurt

(bolding added by Famspear).

[The Observer]

How would Bob Hurt feel about those "stare decisis" cases that he actually enjoys the benefits of today?

[.]

Every ruling ceases to have legal force and effect one year after rendered

A combination of concession and desperation. They should probably go back to their secret fox hole and come up with something better.

[Judge Roy Bean]

On 27 September 2008, Bob Hurt wrote, in a thread entitled The "Becraft Dilemma" and How to Creme the Tax Defier Initiative, at http://groups.google.com/group/Lawmen:

....

The Remedy for Bad Precedent - Eliminate Stare Decisis

Hey, while we're at it, let's ask Santa for time travel and eternal life.

[Bashful]

Can you imagine how the legistlatures would become overwhelmed if they have to legislate every ruling 1 year after the ruling?

Does that mean that if a murderer is sentenced to life in prison, he only has to serve 1 year?

[LPC]

May I point out that, if you eliminate stare decisis, you would also eliminate most of our rights under the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment? Miranda would be gone, along with Brown v. Board of Education and the right to counsel in non-capital cases (Gideon v. Wainright), to name just a few. (The good news is that the Heller case, on the right to keep and bear arms, could be re-litigated from scratch in a few months.)

Meanwhile, the abolition of stare decisis would do tax protesters ZERO good. Left without Pollock and Brushaber, and left with only the words of the 16th Amendment and the Internal Revenue Code, tax protester arguments would make even less sense than they make now.

If Becraft doesn't see all this, then he is even more of an idiot than I thought he was.

(And who the hell is Bob Hurt, anyway?)

[ASITStands]

If Becraft doesn't see all this, then he is even more of an idiot than I thought he was.

It wasn't Larry Becraft's proposal. It was Bob Hurt's.

Bob Hurt is simply a fellow from Tampa who started a "Lawmen" group and constantly fought Chuck Conces over leadership of the national "lawmen" effort to rally the tax movement.

He's espoused most of the tax denier arguments at one time or another, and he's vacillated between commercial and nonresident alien remedies. He's not very astute in law though he fancies himself an attorney in training. He's simply a disappointed man fighting the IRS.

In other words, he's pretty much a tax protester with all the tax protester misgivings.

[Dezcad]

(And who the hell is Bob Hurt, anyway?)

In addition to the above, you can find more information on Bob (along with a picture) here.

[Judge Roy Bean]

And an even better idea - disagreeing Judges with dueling pistols at ten paces.

I like my chances!

[Burzmali]

Jack Thompson FTW!

How can you go wrong citing a case where an attorney filed gay porn in a vague attempt to commit paper terrorism?

edit: failed = filed

[grixit]

Isn't this the plot of a straight to video movie? Something about a group of frustrated peasant elders who meet to try to determine the location of a magic sword that can kill the marauding dragon. Apparently there were lots of magic swords in the past, but all the knight champions were too clumsy to use them properly, and so got eaten. But there is one sword left, they just have to find it and train a new champion to avoid the mistakes of the past. And according to prophecy, if htis last champion is successful, the other knights will be resurrected and form a mighty army of justice, to destroy all dragons forever.

[Burzmali]

The sounds waaaaaay to violent to share a thread with Jack Thompson, even now I can see the pixels that make up his name straining to break loose of their font and strike your post from existence.

[Famspear]

......(And who the hell is Bob Hurt, anyway?)

I recall that some "gems" from Bob Hurt (including his views about African-Americans, etc.) can be found in the thread entitled “Laugenour nonsense filing touted as victory/admission”

See:


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2243&p=34659#p34659

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

......(And who the hell is Bob Hurt, anyway?)

I recall that some "gems" from Bob Hurt (including his views about African-Americans, etc.) can be found in the thread entitled “Laugenour nonsense filing touted as victory/admission”

See:


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2243&p=34659#p34659

Oh my. "Indigo" people, eugenics, and selective sterilization all wrapped up in a tidy little package of mental illness.

[wserra]

He's not very astute in law

I hear that the Visigoths got a little rowdy when they drank.

He's also into wacko "medicine".

[jg]

It is only a coincidence that the vast majority Blacks and Mexicans have relatively low IQs, but it is a reality. It is true that, out of 45 million Blacks, a good 6 to 7 million have IQs higher than the average Caucasian IQ of 100. I do not think such people should be excluded from a biological upliftment program. But I do think all of those Blacks and Mexicans and Caucasians with IQs lower than 90 should be prohibited from procreating, as should all welfare recipients, criminals, crazy people, and children under 21. If such a law were implemented, our nation's genetic, family, and crime problems would diminish dramatically and within 3 generations.
That is only half of a good gene-pool enrichment program, for the other half would encourage smart people to meet and procreate a lot of children, rather than 1.7 per family as they are doing now. 3 per family is required to sustain a race or gene group. The stupid generally procreate at greater than 3 children per family.

Do we know how many, if any, children Mr. Hurt has ?

[Demosthenes]

Bob Hurt

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

Hmm - the least he could have done is combed his hair and beard after pulling off his hood for the picture.

[Famspear]

Aside from spouting the usual run-of-the-mill tax protester rhetoric, the run-of-the-mill eugenics theories, etc., Bob Hurt is on a crusade against judges -- particularly Florida Supreme Court judges. I believe this includes the bizarre the "judge did not take an oath of office" argument or the "judge does not have a written copy of his oath handy for me to read" argument, or whatever it is.

I believe I recall that he has had at least one (minor?) physical confrontation or interaction with an IRS employee in some way, or with the court system, or both, but I don't remember any details. He used to show up at Wikipedia about once every six months and try to debate me in the tax-related talk pages. He rants and raves, acts like it is very important to him that I answer his questions about tax law, and then disappears for months at a time. Because I shot him down over and over on his tax protester crap, he has repeatedly insisted that I must therefore be (--horror of horrors!--) an IRS or DOJ employee, etc., even though I have never worked for the government. He seems to suffer from pronounced mood swings. In one of his very first interactions with me, he called me a "coward" (because I edited some tax protester nonsense he injected into Wikipedia), but later seemed to warm up to me -- and then become bellicose again, later. I don't really know what the problem is, but I suspect he would be an interesting study for someone trained in psychology.

Remember "Submarine Veteran" at losthorizons? Bob Hurt is another tax protester who was in the submarine service in the Navy. (I don't think they're the same person.)

[Quixote]

This second line of defense against cancer is made up of these compounds called nitrilosides. For example, amygdalin is a nitriloside contained in apricot kernels, apple seeds, grape seeds, grasses, and other foods.

...

Thus only cancer cells can convert nitrilosides into benzaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide, and the process kills the cancer cells while it only nourishes normal cells! This is a target-specific reaction. It does not adversely affect normal cells.

Hurt's TP nonsense might land you in jail. His dietary advice could kill you. Chewed apricot kernals tend to pass through the body largely undigested. But if you make them more digestible by running them through a food processor or blender, the amygdalin metabolizes much more effectively, sending most drinkers of apricot kernal smoothies to the emergency room for treatment for cyanide poisoning.