WTP takes on Obama

[Lambkin]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/poli ... 4041.story

An anti-tax activist from upstate New York who is questioning whether President-elect Barack Obama is a "natural born citizen" eligible for the nation's top job said Tuesday that his non-profit group spent "tens of thousands of dollars" to get his message across in ads in the Chicago Tribune this week.

Robert L. Schulz, 69, chairman of We The People Foundation, took out ads Monday and Wednesday to raise questions about whether Obama's Hawaii certificate of live birth is authentic.

The ads echo accusations circulated online by some Obama opponents before the election. Cases challenging Obama's citizenship have been tossed out of courts in several states, and Hawaiian officials have vouched for the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate, which is locked in a state vault. The Obama campaign likewise has always dismissed the accusations.

Nevertheless, some critics remain dubious.

Here are the allegations raised in Schulz's ad, and some relevant facts:

•The birth form released by Obama was "an unsigned, forged and thoroughly discredited" live birth form, Schulz says.

Last summer, Obama's campaign presented a digital copy of his certificate of live birth. After critics questioned its authenticity, staff at FactCheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, said they had seen, held and examined the actual birth certificate.

•"Hawaiian officials will not confirm" that Obama was born in their state, Schulz says.

Initially, Hawaiian officials said that privacy laws prevented them from releasing a copy or confirming that Obama's copy was authentic. But in late October as questions persisted, Hawaii's health director and head of vital statistics reviewed Obama's birth certificate in the department's vault and vouched for its authenticity.

•Schulz says that legal affidavits state Obama was born in Kenya.

The affidavits that Schulz refers to are filings by the Obama critics themselves in the court cases challenging Obama's citizenship.

•Obama's paternal grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended Obama's birth in Kenya, Schulz says.

The group's Web site posted what it says is a transcript of a long-distance phone conversation in Swahili and English from late October between a questioner in the United States and Sarah Hussein Obama, in her Kenyan home. The translator said he was one of two interpreters conducting the interview in a crowded hut during a celebration, over a speaker phone that dropped the call three times. A copy of the recording was not provided by Schulz.

• Schulz says that "U.S. law in effect in 1961 [the year of Obama's birth] denied citizenship to any child born in Kenya if the father was Kenyan and the mother was not yet 19 years of age."

If a child is born in the United States—as Hawaiian officials state that Obama was—that child is a U.S. citizen regardless of his or her parents' nationalities. If born to an American parent outside the U.S., the law at the time would require the U.S. citizen parent to be at least 19, which Obama's mother was not. The provisions of this law were subsequently loosened and made retroactive for government employees serving abroad and their families. It appears that this would not apply to Obama's mother. The matter would seem to be academic: Hawaiian officials vouch for Obama's birth certificate.

•Schulz says that in 1965, Obama's mother relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S. citizenship she and Obama had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen.

U.S. law lists the specific acts and formal procedures necessary to relinquish U.S. nationality. The statute requires the acts be performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing one's nationality. In many instances, one must be 18 to renounce one's citizenship. Obama moved to Indonesia in 1968 and moved back to Hawaii while still in grade school. There is no indication that Obama renounced his U.S. citizenship.

Schulz supports his argument with a reproduced Indonesian school document that states Obama's citizenship at that time as "Indonesian." But the same document also lists Obama's birthplace as " Honolulu, Hawaii."

Schulz, interviewed by the Tribune on Tuesday, said his concern about Obama's citizenship is not partisan.

"We never get involved in politics," he said of We The People. "We avoid it like the plague."

Tax debate is fair game, however. The Queensbury, N.Y., man has been active on tax issues for nearly 30 years. Last year, a senior judge in the Northern District of New York ordered Schulz to shut down a Web site that sold advice on avoiding taxes.

Asked about the case, Schulz said the government has tried to silence him.

He hopes the Tribune ads bring his group prominence.

Schulz said his group also considered a similar ad in USA Today, but said the cost was prohibitive. He said his group considered both the Chicago Sun-Times and the Tribune, but said his group settled on the Tribune because of the size of its pages and its larger circulation. He would not specify how much his group spent on two days of full-page ads except to say they cost tens of thousands of dollars and were paid for by donations from supporters.

A Tribune advertising spokesman said the newspaper has standards for what ads it will accept and that the ad met those standards.

[Dezcad]

A Tribune advertising spokesman said the newspaper has standards for what ads it will accept and that the ad met those standards.

The WTP met the "cash in advance" standard so it was accepted.

The ad can be seen here.

[Nikki]

This latest antic by Schulz has taken WTP well beyone the limits of what is acceptable for a tax-exempt "educational" organization.

It's well past time for the Commissioner to institute the procedures to revoke the exemption.

Appropriate letters to the Commissioner would be an excellent idea.

[grixit]

There was a similar attack on McCain's citizenship. Perhaps WTP is relying on that little known clause in the Constitution that says that should the winner of a presidential election be disqualified, then Ron Paul becomes President-for-Life.

[fortinbras]

Reading the Chicago advertisement, Schulz has once again tried to stage some "event" at the National Press Club, which will gracious rent out its room to anyone whose check doesn't bounce.
But look at what Schulz wants: not just one birth certificate but several - one each for every name that he think that the Pres-elect was ever known by. And not just birth certificates but also certificates of citizenship and oaths of allegiance and some other immigration documents, the very existence of such being incompatible with being born in the USA.

And that's apart from the rudeness and arrogance of barking orders at the newly elected President.

[grixit]

I wonder if he could stand such scrutiny. Oh wait-- isn't a birth certificate proof that you are chattel of the state?

[The Operative]

Reading the Chicago advertisement, Schulz has once again tried to stage some "event" at the National Press Club, which will gracious rent out its room to anyone whose check doesn't bounce.
But look at what Schulz wants: not just one birth certificate but several - one each for every name that he think that the Pres-elect was ever known by. And not just birth certificates but also certificates of citizenship and oaths of allegiance and some other immigration documents, the very existence of such being incompatible with being born in the USA.

And that's apart from the rudeness and arrogance of barking orders at the newly elected President.

You haven't figured out that Bob Schulz believes that all government should bow to his every whim and only operate like he believes it should? Or that he doesn't care if those government officials have to represent the other 300 million citizens, he thinks those government officials should drop everything and respond to his questions regardless of how rudely he asks or how twisted his questions are?

[LPC]

There's a fairly good column in the Chicago Sun-Times.

[Gregg]

I have no idea if the relative who remembers his birth in Kenya is true of just an urban legend, but I can tell you it's hardly credible unless some other things come up. My mother swore until her dying day she remembered me setting in front of the TV chanting "Go Go Gordo!" when Gorden Cooper flew the mercury mission in I think May of 1962, although I wasn't born until January of 1964. (my sisters seem to think it was a cousin)

[notorial dissent]

I find it telling that no one has bothered to ask the hospital where Obama was born if he was born there? The won’t release medical records, but admission, birth and death records are basically public record and they could certainly confirm whether or not his mother had been admitted, and that he had been born there. But then think of all the wonderful conspiracy theories that some real information and research would destroy.

[fortinbras]

Actually, under current patient privacy laws, even the fact of hospital admission is considered confidential. Of course, it's very likely now that the hospital's records of events from half a century ago have been moved out and it's even possible that no effort was made to preserve them, even on microfilm or anything like it.

I am not even sure if a baby born in that hospital has a legal right to compel production of whatever record might exist (assuming, after so many years, it still existed) of his mother's admission to the obstetric ward. In any case, the Pres-elect is the one and only person who can even attempt such a request and I am under the impression that he is currently busy with more important business.

[LPC]

I find it telling that no one has bothered to ask the hospital where Obama was born if he was born there? The won’t release medical records, but admission, birth and death records are basically public record and they could certainly confirm whether or not his mother had been admitted, and that he had been born there.

Under HIPAA regulations, a hospital can maintain a directory of names of patients currently admitted, but must tell each patient that they have the right to be excluded from the directory if they wish. See 45 CFR 164.510(a). Disclosing information about past admissions without the consent of the patient is almost certainly a violation of HIPAA, and could result in civil or criminal penalties.

Birth records are more public, but the state of Hawaii have already confirmed the accuracy of the birth certificate that Obama has made public. I don't see how the state could (or should) do anything more.

[Gregg]

Actually, under current patient privacy laws, even the fact of hospital admission is considered confidential. Of course, it's very likely now that the hospital's records of events from half a century ago have been moved out and it's even possible that no effort was made to preserve them, even on microfilm or anything like it.

I am not even sure if a baby born in that hospital has a legal right to compel production of whatever record might exist (assuming, after so many years, it still existed) of his mother's admission to the obstetric ward. In any case, the Pres-elect is the one and only person who can even attempt such a request and I am under the impression that he is currently busy with more important business.

I have seen a story in a credible publication that a search of archives in a Honalulu newpaper carried a birth notice a few days after he was born. If they started faking the documents they got a very early start.

[Arthur Rubin]

I have seen a story in a credible publication that a search of archives in a Honalulu newpaper carried a birth notice a few days after he was born. If they started faking the documents they got a very early start.

So, they (you know, them]) fixed the newspaper's archives. No problem for the Kennedys (oops, Obamas)....

[Gregg]

I have seen a story in a credible publication that a search of archives in a Honalulu newpaper carried a birth notice a few days after he was born. If they started faking the documents they got a very early start.

So, they (you know, them]) fixed the newspaper's archives. No problem for the Kennedys (oops, Obamas)....

We're teh Ilumminati buddy, it's no big deal for us, trust me

[Mr. Mephistopheles]

I have seen a story in a credible publication that a search of archives in a Honalulu newpaper carried a birth notice a few days after he was born. If they started faking the documents they got a very early start.

Factcheck.org mentions that here.

[LPC]

I have seen a story in a credible publication that a search of archives in a Honalulu newpaper carried a birth notice a few days after he was born.

It appears to be from the Honolulu Advertiser of 8/13/1961. (It's fourth from the bottom in the left most column.)

According to Factcheck.org, the discovery of the newspaper announcement was discovered (and re-published) by a "pro-Hillary Clinton blogger" who "grudgingly concluded" that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

And the August 1961 Honolulu Star-Bulletin contained the same announcement.

I'm also intrigued by the idea that Obama's mother, who was born and raised in Kansas, would, while enrolled as a student at the University of Hawaii, suddenly decide to travel to Kenya for the first time in her life when she was nine months pregnant, in order to give birth where? In a grass shack?

Sorry, but if there was ever a good application of "res ipsa loquitur," this would be it.

[darling]

There's a great article at Slate:

Change They Can Litigate
The fringe movement to keep Barack Obama from becoming president.

http://www.slate.com/id/2206033

[Deep Knight]

This issue has also been active in the NESARA scam community (see the Quatloos forum on this "Dove & Prosperity Programs"), with some "believers" thinking Senator Obama is the anti-Christ (or at least a shape-shifting reptilian) and others saying he's the answer to their prayers. 3 things strike me:

1. Senator Obama has a US passport (you might remember a bit of a scandal when some people went through his passport file earlier this year). He needed to prove his citizenship to get this, and that had to be via a birth certificate, right?

2. At least some of these folks claim that the Certificate of Live Birth he's shown could have been issued even if he was born outside of the US. However, it says it's good for proof of citizenship etc. How could this be? Or are the conspiracy advocates just making this up?

3. Berg (and others) have claimed that Senator Obama couldn't have gone to Pakistan in 1981 because it was closed to travel by US citizens (and thus he had to be a citizen somewhere else). I can't find anything that backs this up anywhere. Another case of making things up? If so, how can anyone trust anything else these people claim?

[Demosthenes]

3. Berg (and others) have claimed that Senator Obama couldn't have gone to Pakistan in 1981 because it was closed to travel by US citizens (and thus he had to be a citizen somewhere else). I can't find anything that backs this up anywhere. Another case of making things up? If so, how can anyone trust anything else these people claim?

It took me less than a minute to find a 1981 travel article in the NY Times about tourism in Pakistan.

Excerpt:

LAHORE, A SURVIVOR WITH A BITTERSWEET HISTORY

By BARBARA CROSSETTE; BARBARA CROSSETTE IS AN ASSISTANT NEWS EDITOR OF THE NEW YORK TIMES.
Published: June 14, 1981

[snip]

Tourists can obtain a free, 30-day visa (necessary for Americans) at border crossings and airports. Transportation within Lahore is plentiful, with taxis, scooter rickshaws and horse-drawn tongas (especially in the old city) readily available. Insist that taxis and scooter rickshaws use their meters to determine fares, however. Fares for longer journeys (for example, to the Shalimar Gardens) may have to be negotiated; ask the hotel staff for help. (We paid about $2 by scooter for the round trip to Shalimar.) Tonga fares are always agreed on through bargaining; most rides should cost less than 50 cents.

Though Lahore has several hotels in a variety of price ranges, three are most frequently recommended to foreign visitors: the Lahore InterContinental, the Lahore Hilton and Faletti's. The first two range in price from $40 for a single room to $60 for a double; Faletti's has rooms in the $25-to-$30 range. (We paid just over $30 for a suite of two large rooms and a bath.)