The Termination Method - Time to Prove It.

[The Observer]

And The Observer in her personal insanity has convoluted the fact that the district court must issue a judgment for a lien, any lien to ever go into effect lawfully. If it has never become a lien in the first place, then why would she be looking for recognition from the district court that the non-lien has been removed?

I am only looking there because you told me to look there. I asked what one of the people that you "assisted terminating" a lien were to do if they couldn't the IRS levies released or if their employer/banker was unwilling to be convinced that the lien had been "terminated." So be careful about labeling this as insanity - after all, you are the one working without a net here.

That she brings it up again and again, like she knows is her being a troll. It is not even on point for this topic.



Regards,

David Merrill

Great. Let's make it on topic. Please provide one district court case where the judge recognized that your "termination" method was valid, that the IRS levies were therefore invaild and were ordered to be released.

If you can't, then (as Ricky Ricardo would tell Lucy) you've got a lot a 'splaining to do to the "terminators."

[The Observer]

As expected, David fails to submit proof of any victory in district court.

Meanwhile, on a locked thread, David left more proof that his "remedy" is reliant on those district courts:

There is recourse in the district courts by whatever name in the states too. You can find it in your state by searching "Order to Show Cause".

But do not sue the IRS agent. Sue the county clerk and recorder for misfiling the subsequently (after 30 days) spurious document - the personal NFTL is not to be filed with the county clerk and recorder in almost all states. Therefore since the county clerk and recorder is working outside of statute, there is no immunity provided by statute/government.

But what he doesn't explain is how doing any of that is going to get your money or property released from an IRS levy. Nor does he give any proof of a sucessful suit against a local country recorder for misfiling a NFTL.

Also interesting to note is David's subtle inclusion of the immunity of the IRS agent in this situation. It is an revealing admission on his part to acknowledge that going to district court to get levies released, as he recommended earlier, isn't going to work.

[.]

And then there's the little matter of the fact that the voices in Van Pelt's head somehow haven't managed to "terminate" his very own, personal federal tax lien, despite his incessant, although ridiculous, claims of a way to do so:

JUDGMENTS AND LIENS STATE OF COLORADO
TELLER COUNTY RECORDER
DEBTOR: VAN PELT,DAVID
ADDRESS: [REDACTED BY DEMO]
DIVIDE, CO 80814
SSN/TAX ID: [REDACTED BY DEMO]
CREDITOR: IRS
AMOUNT: $ 14,925
NUMBER: 443067
TYPE: FEDERAL TAX LIEN
ENTERED: 01/30/1996

[Quixote]

And then there's the little matter of the fact that the voices in Van Pelt's head somehow haven't managed to "terminate" his very own, personal federal tax lien, despite his incessant, although ridiculous, claims of a way to do so:

JUDGMENTS AND LIENS STATE OF COLORADO
TELLER COUNTY RECORDER
DEBTOR: VAN PELT,DAVID
ADDRESS: [REDACTED BY DEMO]
DIVIDE, CO 80814
SSN/TAX ID: [REDACTED BY DEMO]
CREDITOR: IRS
AMOUNT: $ 14,925
NUMBER: 443067
TYPE: FEDERAL TAX LIEN
ENTERED: 01/30/1996

Van Pelt may have waited them out. Unless that lien was refiled, it released automatically on 01/30/2006.

[.]

Well, there ya go!

So, Van Pelt, did you wait them out?

Did the 10 year collection period save your delusional butt?

[Judge Roy Bean]

...

Van Pelt may have waited them out. Unless that lien was refiled, it released automatically on 01/30/2006.

It doesn't happen "automatically." It will sit there until Van Pelt gets the IRS to send the Clerk something releasing it.

[Quixote]

...

Van Pelt may have waited them out. Unless that lien was refiled, it released automatically on 01/30/2006.

It doesn't happen "automatically." It will sit there until Van Pelt gets the IRS to send the Clerk something releasing it.

IRS Publication 1468 (8-2006):

Self-Releasing Liens
A lien usually releases automatically 10 years after a tax is assessed, if the statutory period for collection has not been extended and the IRS extended the effect of the lien by re-filing it. When a lien is self-released, the Notice of Federal Tax Lien itself is the release document.

The lien is considered self released if the:
• date for refiling has passed and
• IRS has not refiled the original Notice of Federal Tax Lien.

Taxpayers should check the column titled Last Day for Re-filing on the Notice of Federal Tax Lien to determine if the lien is self-released. The IRS recommends that recording offices provide the requestor with a copy of the lien and identify the self-releasing language. This information is contained directly under the name and address on the lien document.

[The Observer]

...

Van Pelt may have waited them out. Unless that lien was refiled, it released automatically on 01/30/2006.

It doesn't happen "automatically." It will sit there until Van Pelt gets the IRS to send the Clerk something releasing it.

The physical recorded notice might sit there for all eternity, but under operation of law, the lien expires after the collection statute has expired.

[The Observer]

Well, there ya go!

So, Van Pelt, did you wait them out?

Did the 10 year collection period save your delusional butt?

Reminds me of an episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where Granny claims to have a "home remedy" to cure the common cold. At the end of the show, she explains that her "remedy" is fool-proof in that after taking it, in 10 days or so, you are better.

So perhaps this is the spin that David puts on his snake oil - he just tells the marks to file their UCC-3 statements and in 10 years or less, the lien will be gone.

[David Merrill]

...

Van Pelt may have waited them out. Unless that lien was refiled, it released automatically on 01/30/2006.

It doesn't happen "automatically." It will sit there until Van Pelt gets the IRS to send the Clerk something releasing it.

Until it effects Van Pelt's ability to buy and sell, why bother?

And the lien is essentially the NFTL anyway; you admit that because you have no other evidence of a lien than the NFTL.

Nor does he give any proof of a sucessful suit against a local country recorder for misfiling a NFTL.

Now you are getting somewhere with this. At least it proves that I am speaking in English and that you are intelligent enough to comprehend what I am telling you.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[Imalawman]

Well, there ya go!

So, Van Pelt, did you wait them out?

Did the 10 year collection period save your delusional butt?

Reminds me of an episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where Granny claims to have a "home remedy" to cure the common cold. At the end of the show, she explains that her "remedy" is fool-proof in that after taking it, in 10 days or so, you are better.

So perhaps this is the spin that David puts on his snake oil - he just tells the marks to file their UCC-3 statements and in 10 years or less, the lien will be gone.

All you have to do in the meantime is not own any assets! (with the exception of a motorized bicycle)

[The Observer]

Now you are getting somewhere with this. At least it proves that I am speaking in English and that you are intelligent enough to comprehend what I am telling you.

Speaking in English and communicating in English are two different things. You have yet to prove that you have been able to communicate anything other than word salad.

But you could start by coming up with some district court cases that actually support what you have been claiming.

[David Merrill]

Too easy.

Anyway I like this testimony about federal sovereignty over the States.

When I get to bigger computer I think I will cut and paste that post over here. That is the kindof thing I am looking for anyway. I want to delve into that conditioning some more.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[The Observer]

Too easy.

Translation: I can't cite any court cases that can show that district courts will order levies released based on my claims that I know how to terminate liens. But I'll keep stalling and delaying and hope that no one notices my inability to back up what I am claiming.

[David Merrill]

Wouldn't it also be true that regardless of what any state law says about registration of a federal tax lien that it would be, by virtue of the supremacy of federal law over state law, incapable of having any effect on the underlying federal lien?

There it is! That is the conditioning I am talking about.

For there to be any lien, there must be judicial action. If you do not believe that then you are simply subject to administrative action; so much for you then.

That judicial action must come from the US district court.

In the alternative, the Notice of Federal Tax Lien/Levy may be published in one office in the state if the state has set up such a provision. When this NFTL is properly published there is required to be Notice lis pendens or a transcript of judgment filed within 30 days - from guess where; the US district court, for the NFTL to be enforceable.

If you do not think that a judicial action is required before property can be seized, then you are subject to your beliefs.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
IRS Publication 1468 (8-2006):

Self-Releasing Liens
A lien usually releases automatically 10 years after a tax is assessed, if the statutory period for collection has not been extended and the IRS extended the effect of the lien by re-filing it. When a lien is self-released, the Notice of Federal Tax Lien itself is the release document.

The lien is considered self released if the:
• date for refiling has passed and
• IRS has not refiled the original Notice of Federal Tax Lien.

Taxpayers should check the column titled Last Day for Re-filing on the Notice of Federal Tax Lien to determine if the lien is self-released. The IRS recommends that recording offices provide the requestor with a copy of the lien and identify the self-releasing language. This information is contained directly under the name and address on the lien document.

Again, nothing is released nor lifted automatically.

"Self released" is not a recognized condition. It is an oxymoron in today's database environment.

Until the requestor does something to make the lien disappear from the records, the reality of life is that being "considered" self-released is nothing more than bureaucratic gibberish in the eyes of a lending underwriter.

The IRS can recommend all it wants but getting a lien released requires action on the part of the requestor to get the IRS to issue a formal release that is actually recognized by someone who counts and will then remove it from the record.

[David Merrill]

...
IRS Publication 1468 (8-2006):

Self-Releasing Liens
A lien usually releases automatically 10 years after a tax is assessed, if the statutory period for collection has not been extended and the IRS extended the effect of the lien by re-filing it. When a lien is self-released, the Notice of Federal Tax Lien itself is the release document.

The lien is considered self released if the:
• date for refiling has passed and
• IRS has not refiled the original Notice of Federal Tax Lien.

Taxpayers should check the column titled Last Day for Re-filing on the Notice of Federal Tax Lien to determine if the lien is self-released. The IRS recommends that recording offices provide the requestor with a copy of the lien and identify the self-releasing language. This information is contained directly under the name and address on the lien document.

Again, nothing is released nor lifted automatically.

"Self released" is not a recognized condition. It is an oxymoron in today's database environment.

Until the requestor does something to make the lien disappear from the records, the reality of life is that being "considered" self-released is nothing more than bureaucratic gibberish in the eyes of a lending underwriter.

The IRS can recommend all it wants but getting a lien released requires action on the part of the requestor to get the IRS to issue a formal release that is actually recognized by someone who counts and will then remove it from the record.

In common law notice and grace, the NFTL is the lien. There is no lien without the NFTL. And there is no NFTL after 30 days without judicial process from the US district court.

That is all JRB is saying. The IRS has no interest in going around removing the NFTLs, the illusions of liens after ten years.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Van Pelt again defers to his imagination.

The NFTL is not the lien. The lien itself will be recorded whether or not the interested party receives or is even aware of the NFTL.

Unless and until the authoritative release is issued by the IRS and RECEIVED and RECORDED, the lien exists as a public record and also exists in any number of other databases that no lending or insuring underwriter will ignore. Without the formal release form (which may be accepted or at least recognized prior to appearances in the records), most underwriters won't budge.

[David Merrill]

Van Pelt again defers to his imagination.

The NFTL is not the lien. The lien itself will be recorded whether or not the interested party receives or is even aware of the NFTL.

And you defer again to misnomer.

As to your subsequent blurt - where?

What is the Place for Filing?



Regards,

David Merrill.

[David Merrill]

Paydirt!!

The NFTL is not the lien. The lien itself will be recorded whether or not the interested party receives or is even aware of the NFTL.

Tell us about the Place for Filing - Judge Roy Bean. You have contradicted and exposed your lie right there in two sentences.



Regards,

David Merrill.