Shrout, Winston

[Gannibal]

Update:

Last month Shrout moved, through counsel, for a hearing to determine his mental competency. The supporting memorandum and government's response have been sealed, so no details. Hearing scheduled for this coming Monday, 5/7.

His sentencing is currently set for 5/17, so presumably if the court orders an evaluation that will be reset again.

[jcolvin2]

Sentencing put off, Competency hearing set for July:

05/07/2018 141 Minutes of Proceedings: Granting 129 Motion for Hearing as to Winston Shrout (1). A hearing will be set after the expert witnesses are available for a hearing. Motion Hearing before Judge Robert E. Jones as to Winston Shrout held on 5/7/2018. Sentencing hearing set for 5/17/2018 at 10AM is STRICKEN and will be reset at a competency hearing. ORDER: The court is ordering a competency evaluation by Dr. Lopez at OHSU with a report due no later than 6/29/2018. A competency hearing will be set in July after the evaluation has been completed. ORDER: Defense counsel will submit an unredacted copy of Dr. Martin's report to the Court. Stuart A. Wexler, Lee Langston present as counsel for plaintiff(s). Ruben L. Iniguez present as counsel for defendant(s). (Court Reporter Jill Jessup.) (bp) (Entered: 05/07/2018)

[NYGman]

So is he a loon, or just a spiteful anti-taxer looking for any out he can find? If he really has Mental issues, then he should get help, but I think he knows what is real, what is not, and knows exactly what he was doing, and is sharp enough to realize his only out is to be as crazy as his theories.

[fortinbras]

To a certain extent, you've got to figure that someone who adamantly refuses to pay his taxes, despite all the court decisions and so forth, and somehow thinks that he will get away with it, is something of a loon.

[Gannibal]

Is he a loon? Well, I once saw him explain to a room full of people that he worked with a particularly powerful elf to relocate the international date line from London to Paris so that the Federal Reserve couldn't be recapitalized, which would result in the IRS going back home to Puerto Rico and the Vatican paying off everyone's mortgages Real Soon Now: https://violentmetaphors.com/2016/01/27 ... ise-day-2/

In all seriousness, my take on WS is that he's religious. He seems like a true believer in the personal revelations of extradimensional beings who support and guide him. And he treats it the way a devout Mormon might treat their belief in personal prophecy, or a devout Evangelical might treat the perception of an altar call. It's not a question of physical evidence, he believes in some transcendental non-physical truth.

And if it stopped there, he'd probably be a free man today, selling crystals and spiritual coaching rather than tax advice. Shrout is more than capable of understanding that the things he believes don't pan out--that the currency doesn't get revalued, that the IRS isn't going "back" to Puerto Rico, that he hasn't actually won any court cases with his sure-fire strategies. But I think he weighs his desire to believe those things against the inconvenience of acknowledging that they aren't true (and thus he can't charge for advising on them), and decides on some level to believe despite the evidence. He doesn't seem to care about the consequences, or at least not as much as he cares about his own bottom line.

I'm inclined to say that he's competent, or at least that he was when I met him. He could understand the nature of the proceedings, he just chose--aggressively--to maintain his belief in a comforting fantasy.

[Dr. Caligari]

To a certain extent, you've got to figure that someone who adamantly refuses to pay his taxes, despite all the court decisions and so forth, and somehow thinks that he will get away with it, is something of a loon.

Simply being crazy, even diagnosed psychotic, is not enough to get someone out of criminal trouble.

A defendant is deemed competent to stand trial so long as they (a) know that they are being charged with a crime, and (b) can consult with their lawyer about their defense.

A defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity, in most U.S. jurisdictions, only if they didn't know what they were doing or didn't know right from wrong.

[Judge Roy Bean]

A necessary part of the process includes the possibility of treatment to habilitate the defendant. If the evaluator believes the impairment can be successfully treated the court will normally allow some recommended period of time for the attempt.

The line between fantasy and reality is a fragile one, and Shrout has apparently been living on the fantasy side for a considerable period of time. His inner dialog may no longer include the ability to recognize the authority of the legal process being used against him. If the therapist can draw him back across the line via treatment and convince the court of that, the case can proceed.

[notorial dissent]

Winny's inner process is "you're not the boss of me" and he has come up with (a very) elaborate mythology, but still just a mythology, to justify it. That doesn't make him legally, or really, incapable of knowing what he is doing. He is in it for the power it gives him over people, the attention, AND most importantly FOR THE MONEY.

[Jeffrey]

Shrouts delay tactics continue. The governments latest motion contains some hints of what’s going on. The doctors evaluation is secret but the government wants a second opinion which is being delayed by Shrouts partner, which the doctor wants to interview, being on vacation. Of course while this is going on Shrout is continuing his internet shows.

[wserra]

Shrouts delay tactics continue.

I don't think that's quite fair. If you believe Shrout's lawyer - and I do, the same has happened to me - he has been trying to schedule a time for the interview, and the govt ignored him until the witness went on vacation.

Of course while this is going on Shrout is continuing his internet shows.

Yes, that's something else entirely. I hope the court considers Shrout's unceasing scamming at sentence.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Hmm ... Shrout's partner is allegedly "on vacation."

I have to assume the individual is not physically available, as in, has left the state/country. I find it hard to believe being "on vacation" exempts one from a subpoena to be interviewed.

[Jeffrey]

I know the saying about watched pots not boiling but Shrout currently has a standing order from the judge granting unlimited extensions as long as his "partner" fails to do the interview with the doctor. I don't understand how you would grant such an order given that all Shrout has to do is get her not to do the interview and he avoids jail forever.

[jonny sunday]

You don't understand why? Maybe you don't understand the law as much as you think you do.

[NYGman]

You don't understand why? Maybe you don't understand the law as much as you think you do.

Maybe you can explain it to us then???

[jonny sunday]

I am just a student of law. I'm not in a position to judge anyone who goes to court and tries to free themselves from the slavery on this planet. However, the haters on this site appear to be a bunch of morons who think they know the law, and they love to tell everyone else they are wrong. It seems to me there are a lot of morons on this site with this attitude

"well, if I have to be a good lil slave, YOU DO TOO!!!"

[jonny sunday]

All yall talking about how Winston broke the law and should be in jail. Acting like yall are all experts in the law, however you have no clue why he is still free, after a couple years. This should be a wake up call for you morons. "I guess I don't understand the law as well as I run my mouth telling everyone I do."

[Judge Roy Bean]

I am just a student of law. I'm not in a position to judge anyone who goes to court and tries to free themselves from the slavery on this planet. However, the haters on this site appear to be a bunch of morons who think they know the law, and they love to tell everyone else they are wrong. It seems to me there are a lot of morons on this site with this attitude

"well, if I have to be a good lil slave, YOU DO TOO!!!"

Ah, the 'you're all just ignorant slaves' angle.

Shrout isn't someone trying to free himself from "the slavery on this planet." He's nothing but a delusional con artist.

[NYGman]

Justice isn't always fast, but it will get severed. Winston will only get away with this, if he dies soon. To die, isn't exactly an option for many people.

[jonny sunday]

I am just a student of law. I'm not in a position to judge anyone who goes to court and tries to free themselves from the slavery on this planet. However, the haters on this site appear to be a bunch of morons who think they know the law, and they love to tell everyone else they are wrong. It seems to me there are a lot of morons on this site with this attitude

"well, if I have to be a good lil slave, YOU DO TOO!!!"

Ah, the 'you're all just ignorant slaves' angle.

Shrout isn't someone trying to free himself from "the slavery on this planet." He's nothing but a delusional con artist.

Oh, so you are the law expert. Excellent. Why isn't he in jail? Delusional con artists usually go to jail pretty quickly or at least held in a mental hospital until they understand how to do as they are told and play the court game only the way the BAR attorneys want them to.

[jonny sunday]

I do know you are all slaves or serfs. One doesn't have to know much about law and reality to see you are all slaves or serfs. I wonder about the mentality of people who are ok being a slave, and hate on people who attempt to free themselves. Talk about a delusional way of thinking.