A New Scam - American Nationals Cant Be Taxed ?

[Sick of Online Scams]

It is all in the way you apply for a passport. If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you dont have to pay income tax. Also - you cant get a ticket and you dont need a drivers license. There are people selling the technique in $150 seminars. Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

[notorial dissent]

It is all in the way you apply for a passport. If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you dont have to pay income tax. Also - you cant get a ticket and you dont need a drivers license. There are people selling the technique in $150 seminars. Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

I 'm sorry, were you repeatedly dropped on you head as a child? What's the correct scatological reply to the foregoing, oh, right, bovine excrement. Not the stupidest thing I 've seen posted, but worth dishonorable mention. There are still people trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge, doesn't make it any less of a scam either. Sorry buby, if you're within the US you're subject to the laws, unless you are a pretend ambassador, I hear the Pop A Squats are still selling, oh, wait, that didn't work either, there are three, or is it four currently residing in various prisons and there to remain for quite some time to come.

A better question would be, "do you know any places this has been proven" and the answer would be NO.

[wserra]

If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you dont have to pay income tax.

Fevered and/or avaricious imaginations can dream up endless similar claims. If you're a left-handed glass blower, you don't have to pay income tax. If you get up every morning, face Runnymede and recite the Magna Carta backwards, you don't have to pay income tax. If you lost both your parents in a flood, you don't have to pay income tax.

Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

Given the endless string of inane possible claims, as nd says, this is the wrong question. The right one to pose to anyone who makes a claim like yours: "prove it". And that doesn't mean "go bloviate for a while" - it means "provide a verifiable citation where it has worked". Won't happen.

[NYGman]

It is all in the way you apply for a passport.

Why would getting a passport change your status? If anything, it would evidence citizenship and a claim for protections when in a foreign country. Many people in the US Don't have a passport, and their status isn't impacted by it.

If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you don't have to pay income tax. Also - you cant get a ticket and you don't need a drivers license.

Where would you even say this, the passport application is only open to US Citizens, you have to provide proof of citizenship to be eligible to receive one. If your claim is that you are not a citizen, then you can't get a passport, whatever the reason. Anyway, what is an American National anyway, I can't seem to find any relevant citations for this term that would be relevant under the code. Further, even non-citizens living and working here are subject to tax, and you better believe the police ticket foreigners who drive too fast, or break any other law of our land.

There are people selling the technique in $150 seminars. Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

And I have a beautiful bridge to sell then too. As said by others, wrong question, ask who has succeeded in court, using this as a defense to tax evasion or to get out of a ticket. You wont find any victories, just losses under similar theories.

[The Observer]

I think we have been rather harsh responding to Sick of Online Scam's question/post. I took the nature of the post as reporting on something they had seen or noted lately and was only asking to see if there was a good answer in showing how wrong the passport scam was. I sincerely doubt that SoOS actually believes that this is somehow a legitimate tactic and is a proponent of it. After all, the post is labled as "New Scam" and the moniker SoOS seems to be rather unlikely the choice of a scamster.

The tone of the responses are disappointing in that in the best light SoOS is made to seem naive and completely unable to see the truth before him/her. I would have thought that we would have at least waited to see more evidence of where SoOS is coming from before the hammers started getting tossed.

[Pottapaug1938]

The easy way to disprove this scam is to demand, of the scammers, that they provide you with examples of people who claim to be American nationals and not US citizens, and have had appellate courts decide that they do not have to pay income tax, are immune from tickets, and do not need drivers' licenses. Since they are the ones pushing this bullcrap, for $150 a pop, they must have such examples readily to hand -- RIGHT?

I'd rather spend my $150 on one of the activities offered at the Boston Illuminati Club.

[Jeffrey]

The only actual American Nationals are people born in American Samoa:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-amer ... ip-n860721

As long they remain in Samoa yes they can't be taxed by the feds.

[notorial dissent]

Actually, not even remotely new. I can remember seeing it bouncing around at least ten years ago, if not further back, so not even remotely new, any more than it is valid.

[NYGman]

The only actual American Nationals are people born in American Samoa:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-amer ... ip-n860721

As long they remain in Samoa yes they can't be taxed by the feds.

The only Nationals that have any relevance in our capital are the Washington Nationals

[wserra]

I think we have been rather harsh responding to Sick of Online Scam's question/post.

Looking back at my post after reading Observer's - speaking for myself, I agree. I phrased it very poorly. For example, I certainly recognized that you may be inquiring in good faith about something you just ran across. However, when I referred to "a claim like yours", that should have been "a claim like the one you relate", rather than attributing it to you. When I wrote that "prove" "doesn't mean 'go bloviate for a while'", I didn't mean that you shouldn't bloviate, but rather the person you ask for proof shouldn't.

Sorry.

[morrand]

It is all in the way you apply for a passport. If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you dont have to pay income tax. Also - you cant get a ticket and you dont need a drivers license. There are people selling the technique in $150 seminars. Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

First of all, SooS, sorry for the rough reception. For context, there has been a stretch of people recently who show up "just asking questions," and wind up arguing complete nonsense, and they won't quit even after the arguments have been answered, and we've had to put them in the box. Putting them in the box gets ugly. People get tetchy about it after a while. If it's any consolation, think of the harsh responses not as responses to you, but suggestions on just how to respond to the "new scam" if you don't feel charitable about it.

Second, you probably shouldn't feel charitable about it, since in fact it is not a new scam, but a minor variation on a very old one. You can read about those in some of the back files of the "Tax Protestors" boards here, but this is one that goes back decades. So despite the recommendations to ask for proof, I think at this point you would be completely justified in just calling it baloney, however you like to phrase that, as this one has been tried and found wanting over and over again.

You asked specifically where this has been disproved. The answer is that it has been disproved in the Federal courts of the United States, and for more information about that, I would like to direct you to the IRS Publication The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments, and while the whole document is worth a read, I would direct your attention to section C.1, "Taxpayer is not a 'citizen' of the United States and thus is not subject to the federal income tax laws." While this does not discuss the "American National" variant specifically, the general idea is identical, and as you can see from the list of case law in that section, this is a scheme that has some long roots on it, and it hasn't worked in all that time.

I hope that is helpful to you.

[Judge Roy Bean]

It is all in the way you apply for a passport. If you say you are an American national, and not a US citizen, you dont have to pay income tax. Also - you cant get a ticket and you dont need a drivers license. There are people selling the technique in $150 seminars. Does anyone know where this has been disproved ?

Yes.