Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[arayder]

Oh my, my, my. . .

http://deanclifford.info/2014/06/12/goodbye/

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

I believe it may be prudent to archive that before it is deleted by one means or another.

A small note that I suspect will be echoed by others in this forum; if "admin" wishes to directly share his observations and experiences on Quatloos I am certain he would be very welcome.

And personally, I'm sorry to hear he went through this. While I am not sympathetic with many of the ideas advanced in the OPCA world I do think one should not minimize or trivialize the harm this phenomenon has caused to so many.

SMS Möwe

[ontobserver]

I believe it may be prudent to archive that before it is deleted by one means or another.

Archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20140612221 ... 2/goodbye/

[Jeffrey]

It would be in poor taste to gloat right?

[Bill Lumbergh]

I believe it may be prudent to archive that before it is deleted by one means or another.

A small note that I suspect will be echoed by others in this forum; if "admin" wishes to directly share his observations and experiences on Quatloos I am certain he would be very welcome.

Now that would be fascinating. It's rare for an OPCA victim to open up about the experience. I would imagine most simply want to get on with their lives.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Among the items received was another copy of Dean’s Provincial Court records. The plan was that these might have been updated, but that was not the case. I am unclear how to better retrieve information on Dean’s activities in that court – perhaps we’ll be lucky and a Manitoba resident will examine the file and look for more interesting items. If there are any lawyers in Manitoba who could offer advice that would be very welcome.

Was it a copy of the criminal informations that you received? I reckon that would be the only way, short of having transcripts, to see what is happening at that court, as the information gets updated with every court appearance. Admittedly, the clerks who update the informations tend to use a lot of shorthand and abbreviations that are hard to decipher. Alternatively, the courthouse clerk, if asked, should be able to provide next hearing dates and their purpose.

Bill: this is a copy of the documents that were received from Provincial Court last week:

• http://www.mediafire.com/view/ei4yg6bmw ... 20%232.pdf

Any thoughts would be very welcome!

SMS Möwe

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Gloating? I think a degree is justified. I am hard-pressed to identify a successor for Clifford - that is, someone who will have substantial appeal. I think we're seeing the end of an era. The Freeman-on-the-Land movement, at least in the form we have known it, is coming to a close in Canada.

(Elsewhere sadly is a different matter.)

I agree Bill, I do hope "admin" appears - it would indeed be fascinating to not simply see the perspective of an OPCA victim but also someone intimately involved with the operation of Clifford's guru activities. We don't see the 'inside' of those often.

Beyond that, I appreciate the fact "admin" took the risk to be a whistle-blower. He could have simply abandoned the website, disappeared - but instead he shared some very important information that has been withheld from Dean's customer base. It's a gutsy and honorable step. While I don't think he faces much risk from Dean for ... oh, 6-7 years perhaps? I imagine Darren will be ... a touch excitable.

And we have an idea of what happens then.

So, "admin", kudos to you. You've helped many people by your honesty and integrity. With luck, Dean will soon be nothing more than a historical curiosity.

SMS Möwe

[Fussygus]

Just to go back to house jacking incident. So looking at the commentary about I am left wondering, could an incident like this be the source of Dean's frustration that has ultimately resulted in his incarceration?

Some times little things can send someone on a tangent that spirals their life out of control. Knowing the insurance and construction industry very well I can see how one could have insurance and think they are insured, but then be denied coverage BECAUSE they didn't properly articulate exactly what they NEEDED to be covered for. I am in constant contact with my insurance company when it comes to projects of significant size, but when in comes to small ones it is PRESUMED that they are covered under annual policy. If Dean was not experienced in house jacking (which it appears he wasn't) there is also a good chance he was not experienced enough to know that the general liability insurance does not cover builders risk. I don't doubt many contractors think they have insurance that covers them, but in fact don't. All one need to do is be inexperienced in the field of insurance and read an insurance contract an be befuddled as to what it means. Then you ask insurance agent about what you are covered for, but likewise don't necessarily ask the right questions and/or still don't understand what it all means.

Generally in the construction industry at the lower levels many are drawn to it because it is a hands-on endeavour vs. and academic endeavour. So you aren't going to find allot of book worms and scholars within that group. From what I can tell Dean is a carpenter type who eventually started his own business, a carpenter turned businessman/contractor as opposed to businessman turned contractor. Therefore, just as how you frame a house is likely foreign to the businessman, an insurance contract is likely foreign to a carpenter. The businessman doesn't know what his crew is doing enough to know they are doing something wrong, he couldn't even garner a question about what they are doing (he wouldn't even know the terminology (jack, header, shoring, cofferdam, camber, air entrainment, etc), likewise the carpenter might not know what questions to ask to ascertain what insurance coverage he really needs.

I know that if you are in house jacking, you need builders risk insurance. I also know that if you have never done it before it will be expensive, or they simply won't cover you at all. Or if you do have insurance and something happens, you better have dotted your "I's" and crossed your "T's" because the first response of an insurer is to see how they can avoid paying.

So back to my point, is this the source that pushed Dean down the road to Never Never Land? Did the feeling of helplessness that being ruined by this incident inspire him to want to gain some control over his life as he felt manipulated and cheated? Sure we can say he SHOULD have known better, but "you don't know, what you don't know".

Anyone ever brought a car in for warranty claim and found they weren't covered for that type of failure? (For some brands an engine that consumes 1.5L of oil every 5000km is not a warrant-able claim).

Fuzzy

[Jeffrey]

I was thinking about that too. The 2008 date coincides neatly with his venture into Freeman guru.

The problem is that the story starts way earlier in the 90s with his brother's arrest in 1996, Dean's adventures into detaxing with Warman and Porinsky Paradigm group etc. I don't have dates set for his involvement at Stormfront but I believe they were pre-Guru days.

Not to mention that pre-2008 his construction company had already been sued half a dozen times already, successfully it should be noted. They'd been taken to court for not paying utility bills too.

IDK, maybe that's what triggered him to double down. The "admin" confirmed that Dean's marijuana operation was for "commercial purposes", so let's say hypothetically Dean pulled a Breaking Bad in 2008 since he was dead broke and with +$50k in debts (that we know of), starts selling pot to cover the bills; gets mixed up with the wrong crowd. As an aside, I did say that his "divestment" plan of doing everything cash and using only prepaid cell phones and prepaid debit cards was suspiciously similar to what drug dealers do; it's great to have that confirmed now.

I wish we could sit down to ask "admin" more questions; his last post opened up more questions than it answered them. For instance the admin mentions that the cops found up to 8 weapons yet the court records we have only list 5; I'm curious as to what's up with that inconsistency.

I like that "admin" admits that the threats he's received is from Dean supporters. He also seems to confirm something I was curious about in terms of how money moved from donors -> website -> Dean. "I cannot take on such burdens and expect to keep everyone happy and pay off Dean’s private property he bought". The way I read that is that Dean was having "admin" pay off his debts directly to avoid paying money out to Dean out of fear of the CRA.

In regards to Dean’s case, his gun and pot charges actually have not been dropped at all.

This right here is interesting because just the day before Darren was still maintaining that the gun and pot charges were dropped.

I was misled to believe it was just one gun that was a WWII relic heirloom piece, but in fact Dean has a full arsenal.

This pretty much confirms our speculation concerning the flow of information from Dean -> Darren -> Admin. The web guy was being lied to the whole time. I wonder if Mowe obtaining the full list of charges helped inspire this defection.

I have come to realise Dean protects moochers and scumbags but takes hard working people for granted.

In regards to the drug charges, the original news post was misleading and BS was fed there also, the grow op was actually for commercial purposes and not for a sick friend as originally told.

What I absolutely love about "admin"s post is that it confirms everything we suspected and dug up for the last 7+ months. Feels good to be right.

Good luck to "admin". I would not have had the guts to upset the short-tempered and heavily armed Clifford brothers. Stay safe, pay your taxes and just follow the traffic laws if you don't like tickets.

p.s. "admin" might want to sit down to talk with a legit tax guy to help him sort out the website money situation with CRA.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

A couple observations, both courtesy of the Manitoba Courts website (http://www.jus.gov.mb.ca/).

The legal action where Dean was found liable for a $50,696.07 award is action # CI08-01-55828. The plaintiff is the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation, and there are two defendants who appear to be jointly liable for the damages: Dean Clifford and Zachariah Bradley Mastervick. A very brief investigation of that second name did not go anywhere useful or interesting.

Darren Clifford's explanation that Dean's $50K court-ordered liability relates to a house jacking mishap cannot be correct. The plaintiff (http://www.mpi.mb.ca/) is a not-for-profit Crown insurance corporation owned by the province of Manitoba that deals with only one subject: automobile insurance.

This is not to say the house jacking incident and a denial of insurance coverage did not happen - but Darren's claim that this particular lawsuit relates to an event of that kind cannot be correct.

Second, the data for Dean's lawsuit against some judges, police officers, and Crown Attorneys (CI14-01-89455 - statement of claim is linked a couple messages back) indicates that the hearing on June 11, 2014 was a non-event. The application by the defendants to have the action struck out appears to have been adjourned until July 2, 2014. The adjournment is noted in relation to only one defendant, so I am unclear whether the remainder of the lawsuit has been ended.

In any case, some 'un-news' compared to other recent developments.

SMS Möwe

[Jeffrey]

I'm tempted to give Darren the benefit of the doubt because I looked up the claims adjuster online and listed on his resume appears. "experienced in Builder's Risk, General Liability and Auto claims".

Which I guess could go either way and I think the court website has some weird thing where all corporations show up as Manitoba Limited.

[arayder]

I like that "admin" admits that the threats he's received is from Dean supporters. . .

. . .Good luck to "admin". I would not have had the guts to upset the short-tempered and heavily armed Clifford brothers. Stay safe, pay your taxes and just follow the traffic laws if you don't like tickets.

p.s. "admin" might want to sit down to talk with a legit tax guy to help him sort out the website money situation with CRA.

I would urge him to report the threats and all subsequent ones to the police and start thinking about his home and personal security.

Admin person here's some tips for you:

-Make sure you have dead bolt locks on your outside doors.
-Make sure the windows all latch, especially those on the first floor.
-Be careful where you park your car or bike, avoiding dark and isolated areas.
-Forget about using bank machines in dark, crowded places with bushes and trees around.
-Change your routines so as to be less predictable (less "ambushable").
-Be observant of the situations and environments around you. Don't walk around texting or talking into your cell phone.
-Sit with your back to the wall in restaurants and bars.
-Don't get suckered into going alone to meetings with Darren under the guise of him wanting to make up. Don't answer honestly if he calls to ask where you are.
-I don't think mace or billy clubs are allowed in Canada, so don't go there.
-I think canes are allowed (I'd check it out with the local cops). If you use one train in its use!
-It's not cowardly to run like hell if Darrren or one of the goons threaten or attack you. Work a big, fast reverse step.

[JamesVincent]

I am in constant contact with my insurance company when it comes to projects of significant size, but when in comes to small ones it is PRESUMED that they are covered under annual policy. If Dean was not experienced in house jacking (which it appears he wasn't) there is also a good chance he was not experienced enough to know that the general liability insurance does not cover builders risk. I don't doubt many contractors think they have insurance that covers them, but in fact don't. All one need to do is be inexperienced in the field of insurance and read an insurance contract an be befuddled as to what it means. Then you ask insurance agent about what you are covered for, but likewise don't necessarily ask the right questions and/or still don't understand what it all means.

Fuzzy

Very true. As I had said earlier you have to be pretty specific about what you're doing to make sure you have the correct coverage. And anything out of the norm you would contact the insurance company to double check your coverage.

Something else i had thought about. Down here there are different licenses for building and repairing a building and another one for rehabbing a house. Is it possible that, as a framer/ carpenter, he just plain was not licensed for that type of work? Do the provinces separate out between building and rehabbing?

[GlimDropper]

I think Dean et. al. would be extremely foolish to try and harm Admin person. The amount of beans he's spilled is trivial compared to what he must have learned in the last few years especially about how and where Dean's membership monies flow.

The "good bye" post can be hand waved away and already the chatter in the Deanosphere is anti-Admin guy. The followers seem less upset by the fact they've been lied to than the fact someone "sniched" on Dean. If I were Darren I'd just line someone else up to run the "line our pockets" website and try to look magnanimous in asking all of Dean's faithful to not lay a hand on Admin guy.

[arayder]

I think Dean et. al. would be extremely foolish to try and harm Admin person.

Well dey aire fools, ain't dey?

If I were Darren I'd just line someone else up to run the "line our pockets" website and try to look magnanimous in asking all of Dean's faithful to not lay a hand on Admin guy.

If you were Darren, Darren would have good sense, Dean would get some good advice and we wouldn't have to hear so many stupid stoner giggles and f**k yea's during Dean's updates.

[Jeffrey]

Realistically "admin" will probably just get a few angry phone calls and maybe some threats of a defamation lawsuit or threat to sue for the website money which they won't follow up on.

James Richardson This tard running the deanclifford.info is a total loser...and a turncoat. ....he's talking about Dean's "arsenal" like some kind of whinny little kid..."oh my god, all of the weapons are scary!! blah blah bla....go ahead and quit you gutless wonder...whatever the hell your name is!

Cory Derowin Admin was always problematic to the users of the site. As a former member (due to his judgement to remove my account), I watched Admin whine constantly, as if he was upset that the spotlight wasn't on him. That's speculative mind you, but that is my impression. I have a feeling Dean will be better of without Admin. Seeing things fall apart however, I'd like to offer my computer experience to Dean and his effort. Anyone who has contact with Dean, could you replay this offer to him please? Admin was great at filtering out those who truly wanted to help Dean, and I don't believe Dean knows just how many people are behind him.

First reactions on the Free Dean Clifford Facebook page. They have it spelled out for them in black and white that Dean and Darren were lying to them the whole time and they don't even recognize it.

[arayder]

A third poster finally catches on:

***** Did you guys even read what he wrote? Dean has been lying to you guys for months if not years. The guy rips off everyone he works with including the guy who ran his website, not to mention the people he's ripped off with what used to be his construction company. Face it, Dean Clifford is not who you guys were led to believe he is. Despite what this Facebook page and Dean claimed, there WAS a [w]arrant for his arrest. He and his brother HAVE been convicted in the past. His Freeman techniques have never worked for him or his brother, just go check his court records, and now he's stuck in jail for the next few years or decades because he got caught with a bunch of unregistered and prohibited weapons and dealing drugs and assaulted multiple cops.

[Burnaby49]

The World Freeman society has posted Admin's entire screed three times;

https://worldfreemansociety.org/forum/4 ... ?start=168

bmxninja357, the moderator of the site, agrees with Admin;

both terr-y and i tried to tell folks something was amiss with this dean guy...

and today he had some shit in court. a motion to dismiss some of his b.s. i belive this may be enough to get him that vexatious litigant status he has been trying for.

the thing is, sooner or later reality rears its ugly head. this should only scare those not living in reality to start with.

However there are dissenting voices;

Talk about spewing your guts out in public..this guy has swallowed the self pity pill and has decided to spill the beans on Dean eh.

It seems he wanted to go along on the magic carpet ride with Dean and didn't like it when they got too close to the target and started taking flak.

What sort of reaction was the turncoat hoping to garner by publishing an unofficial list of firearms
As for the commercial grow setup..well what can I say about that

The man obviously had a foot in both camps and liked to play hard..you'd think the long suffering secretary would be a bit more savvy in his choice of employer

I was personally lukewarm on Lindsay as he showed no humility and lacked a coherent structure with his challenges against the Crown.
There are better proponents in the fight for emancipation from the slavery system and these people will emerge to the forefront in the ongoing struggle for liberty.

Remember Dean for the knowledge he imparted (however flawed) and the spirit of defiance he bought to the freeman/liberty cause,whatever happens from here at least he can say that he stood up and was counted.

However Unit144, the poster, has criticized David Lindsay, Mowe's hero. You don't want to get on Mowe's bad side!

Then of course there are the conspiracy theories already popping up. This from Xabre;

Unit 144
I must agree with you. For one to go to such length as to Badmouth and incriminate (to some extent) reeks of collusion to me. I believe possible pressure from on high? ...I know if it were me bidding an exit I would not spill my guts in such a way as to demean my former cohort to such an extent as to throw such a bad light on a cause that is more than worth while and has helped many Freemen and Non freemen alike beat back the Judicial Gong Show.
His rhetoric is almost Shill like in its execution, and certainly not complimentary to Deans Cause ,and /or his plight. One can only hope that there is someone who will take over the admin duties until Dean is released

I would really appreciate Xabre going into details, including citations, of how Dean has actually helped anyone "beat back the Judicial Gong Show ". If this is the case perhaps Dean should be using those winning tactics instead of the bunch of total losers he is currently relying on.

[Jeffrey]

Oh god, the Goodbye post was updated at some point in the last 12 hours to include this gem.

Dean is definitely using all their stuff. he has a drivers license, he has license plates, he has a registered company and yes, he files taxes. how does one get all that if he claims to have rescinded the BC over 3 years ago? I couldn’t get a straight answer from him or any of his mob.

BAHAHAHAHAHA, ALL THIS HEAD SCRATCHING ABOUT HOW DEAN GETS AWAY WITH NOT PAYING TAXES AND HE WAS FILING AND PAYING THE WHOLE TIME?!

I'm cancelling my HBO, this is way better entertainment!

Edit: Actually this info is probably incorrect since we know Dean's license is suspended.

[ArthurWankspittle]

I wish we could sit down to ask "admin" more questions; his last post opened up more questions than it answered them. For instance the admin mentions that the cops found up to 8 weapons yet the court records we have only list 5; I'm curious as to what's up with that inconsistency.

I'm trying to think of reasons. The three not in the charges are owned / connected with someone else? The three weapons were in some sort of storage so he has a plausible deniability of knowing what they were? They got fingerprints off 5 of them so are going with that, tagging another 3 weapons onto the charge not making any difference?