Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[Hanslune]

They could achieve a measure of non-governmental 'influence" by living out at sea under a flag of convenience - but that would take money and a lot of hard work - and leaving Canada.

Additionally the concept is called 'seasteading' and if these folks were serious - this would actually give them some of the 'freedom' they seem to want.

Outside the Exclusive Economic Zone of 200 nautical miles (370 km), which countries can claim according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the high seas are not subject to the laws of any sovereign state other than the flag under which a ship sails. Examples of organizations using this possibility are Women on Waves, enabling abortions for women in countries where abortions are subject to strict laws, and offshore radio stations which were anchored in international waters. Like these organizations, a seastead would take advantage of the absence of laws and regulations outside the sovereignty of nations, and choose from among a variety of alternate legal systems such as those underwritten by "Las Portadas"

From the seasteading wikipedia page

[arayder]

So what do you call a bunch of freemen seasteading?

A ship of fools.

[LordEd]

Maybe we're scaring them away by flying a pirate flag and pirate mascot.

[grixit]

in an all freeman ship, who swabs the deck? Who allocates the stores? Who watches for vermin and disease?

[Arthur Rubin]

in an all freeman ship, who swabs the deck? Who allocates the stores? Who watches for vermin and disease?

Who decides which are the vermin?

[Burnaby49]

It looks like Dean had another bail review today;

Court documents:

40 04-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM MARTIN J 04FEB2015
41 06-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB NOTICE OF MOTION (JUDGE) BAIL REVIEW - NOTIFICATION RECEIVED- DATE TO BE SET BEFORE MARTIN, J.
42 06-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB ORDER TO CONVEY A PRISONER

Hearings:

12-Feb-2015 10:00 PENDING CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - NOTIFICATION RECEIVED- DATE TO BE SET BEFORE MARTIN, J.

Canada awaits the results with bated breath. Better not bate it too long though, I don't anticipate him getting out.

[Hanslune]

Under Canada law what is the longest a person can be held before being put on trial, or in other words what is the longest amount of time he could serve without being convicted of something?

[bmxninja357]

A long long time. See the case of Tim Lee in Edmonton. I belive he got about 10 years and released due to spending over seven on remand.


Peace
ninj

[Fmotlgroupie]

Under Canada law what is the longest a person can be held before being put on trial, or in other words what is the longest amount of time he could serve without being convicted of something?

As Ninj says, no particular limit, so long as detention is still justified (grounds to believe he won't show up for court or will commit further offences on bail). If the pre trial detention winds up exceeding the likely sentence then the Crown will offer a joint submission of time served in exchange for a guilty plea, or even stay the charges (depending on the public interest in securing a conviction/criminal record). Looking at Dean, I think that the public interest strongly favours securing a conviction, for his record when he's brought in on the next set of charges.

[Burnaby49]

Something's up with the Deanster, a special bail hearing! Has Dean figured out the Magic solution for getting out?

Court Date Court Time Status Hearing Type Notes
17-Feb-2015 14:00 PENDING CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - TO SET A DATE FOR SPECIAL BAIL HEARING (MARTIN, J. ) IS NOT SEIZED
12-Feb-2015 10:00 ADJOURNED CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - NOTIFICATION RECEIVED- DATE TO BE SET BEFORE MARTIN, J.. Adj from 12-Feb-2015 to 17-Feb-2015

I don't think I've ever seen the phrase "special bail hearing" before. So what is it? Well, it seems that involved Criminal Code, s 515(6), and the Supreme Court of Canada says this about it in R. v. Morales, [1992] 3 SCR 711:

As a result, bail is granted on condition that the accused will cease criminal behaviour. Section 515(6)(a) establishes a set of special bail rules where there are reasonable grounds to believe that the accused has already breached this condition. In other words, the special bail rules in s. 515(6)(a) apply where there are reasonable grounds to believe that one of the objectives of the bail system, namely, stopping criminal behaviour, is not being achieved. By requiring the accused to justify bail, s. 515(6)(a) seeks to ensure that the objective of stopping criminal behaviour will be achieved.

It looks like this procedure is intended to tighten bail up even further than it already is. But Dean is in jail so what is there to tighten? I'm just guessing, but I bet Dean is going to be put under ever harsher conditions and, for example, be prohibited from communication with the outside world because he has already engaged in illegal activity via that route.

While Dean was not convicted of uttering threats that is irrelevant to a bail hearing which is something separate as that process has a different objective. Maybe this is the Crown' attempt to 'fix' their Brandon screwup and still apply some pressure to Dean.

[grixit]

A clear victory! Dean has forced the authorities to acknowledge the validity of his claims by seeking to censor him. All freedom loving followers are called to pack the hearing.

[Jeffrey]

And that's what Deanophiles don't seem to comprehend. The court is dealing with a guy with a history of assaulting cops, that is threatening to do it again if released and threatening to shoot the next cop that pulls him over.

In the off-chance Dean's wife or friends read this thread. You could more than likely get Dean out of jail on the 17th if you sit down with him, explain to him that he was wrong and to tell the judge/court that he realizes he was wrong and acted due to a misunderstanding of the law but that he won't do it again (namely assault cops or break whatever criminal code sections he broke).

In the alternative, the crown prosecutor is going to have a really easy time convincing the judge and jury to go for as close to the maximum sentence.

[ArthurWankspittle]

IANAL but I read that section as get in court and explain yourself as the court has been told you aren't obeying your bail conditions. And if you don't agree to comply or you haven't been complying, the court will restrict your bail conditions further.

[notorial dissent]

Jeffrey, I quite agree with your take on all this, but do you really honestly think that Dean would actually take any advice from anyone that involved him behaving or admitting to an error? Or conversely, even with a Canadian judge, do you think that with his prior history and bad behavior that anyone would believe him if he did? Not to say that such behavioral changes can't or haven't happened, but I don't see it ever happening with Dean. There is just too much anger and stupid all bitterly balled up and fuming in there.

[Bill Lumbergh]

"Special" bail hearing likely just means "lengthy" bail hearing. These get scheduled separately for more complex matters where multiple witnesses and longer testimony is expected. It's done to prevent one matter taking up an entire day of bail court.

S.515(6) contains the reverse onus bail provisions. Ie. if any of the listed circumstances apply, then the onus is on the accused to show cause as to why he should be released. These are "special" rules because the default process is that that the Crown bears the onus of showing cause why the accused should be detained. I don't think they create any separate bail proceeding. Since Dean was detained at his original bail hearing, he does not have "bail conditions" in the sense that he is not on a recognizance. The court could have and likely did make a separate "non-communication order" to prohibit him from contacting certain individuals.

I should add a disclaimer that IANAL, but I have in the past worked as staff at a small town courthouse. You tend to pick up a lot over the years in that line of work.

[arayder]

We should consider the possibility that since his infamous recorded threats, or possibly since his trial, Dean has had threatening, or conspiratorial communications with family or friends.

I can imagine a hateful conversation between Dean and his brother Darren, which is later recounted and embellished via email to other Deaners. One of the Deaners forgets he still has his ex-brother in law, who works for a local police department, on his contact list so when he sends out the email it gets passed on to local prosecutors.

[Burnaby49]

Another Dean Clifford Video! Enjoy;

http://deanclifford.info/2015/02/14/upd ... -fly-zone/

[Jeffrey]

And the perceptive Mr. Bates has noticed that Dean has hired a lawyer, Ms. Sarah Inness.

[Burnaby49]

For those of you who want to listen to the Dean & Darren show at you leisure without all this distracting pictures of our charismatic muscular Freeman (Women swoon! Men glare in bitter envy!), here is Update 19 - NO FLY ZONE on mp3 cleaned up a bit on the audio.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/vvrw4e1 ... ifford.mp3

It looks like another document has been filed in the impending hearing:

43 13-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB AFFIDAVIT OF JOHN DELANO PHILLIPS AFF: 13FEB2015

My quick attempts to identify the affiant were unsuccessful.

Here is an article about the judge in charge of Dean's hearing. Better not cross this guy!

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 47141.html

I particularly like the opening line of the Statement of Claim in respect to a petty squabble about a failed university admission ;

"The lawsuit began with this introduction: "More than any other case in Canada's history, this case will determine Canada's next few hundred years."

Talk about Go Big or Go Home!

[notorial dissent]

Doesn't much sound like the judge was amused, and with good reason. Bet he'll be even less impressed with Dean et al.