Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

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arayder
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

notorial dissent wrote:
arayder wrote:Reviewing some of Dean's news releases he and his team say he refused to make application for bail, implying bail was available and that Dean just wants to stay put and kick the man's arse from his jail cell.
And there is any reason to believe this? This is after all the man who is going to bring the court system to its knees with his brilliant legal insight, adn yet he is still in jail.
"And there is any reason to believe this?"

No, none at all, I say.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-P8t6dzVA

The transcript of the bail hearing is in the first 6 minutes. He did actually refuse to apply for bail and the Crown guy stated his opposition to release based on history of failure to appear in court, previous convictions, prevent him from "continuing the offense" which I assume means driving without license, him having access to firearms, outstanding charges, and the seriousness of the charges.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

Winnipeg Alternative Media has a report on today's Clifford hearing at the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench:

https://www.facebook.com/WinnipegAltern ... 2821161254

Unsurprise #1 - Dean was not released.

Unsurprise #2 - the judge said Dean's material was largely irrelevant.

Unsurprise #3 - this means Dean is winning!

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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

It is most likely this has to do with the court houses new polices and coversheet which make it difficult for those who don’t have access to a computer and printer so they can try and implore the impossible.
I'm starting to suspect these guys are not very intelligent. They're repeating Dean's misunderstanding of the court practices directive. If Dean had bothered to read past page 9 he'd see the reason he was sent that directive was to point out to him that the court can summarily dismiss frivolous filings as pointed out in page 19. It has nothing to do with his lack of access to printers or "coversheets". In fact the document Dean received actually contains the forms he needs for filling out the proper motions including any of his nonsense Freeman arguments, he just needs to write in the information.

And THE DIRECTIVE THEMSELVES clearly state that the court can accept filings that don't comply with the directives requiring "coversheets" as long as it's "in the interest of justice" (page 9), meaning the "coversheet" bullsh*t they are claiming is the reason for his documents being ignored is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL.

Dean read that whole section on the latest phone update from jail and due to his total lack of reading comprehension interpreted to mean that the court is the one that is not required to use "coversheets".
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

Jeffrey wrote:I'm starting to suspect these guys are not very intelligent.
You don't say!!!!!

I wasn't aware that lack of reading comprehension was a Freeman requirement, but I am beginning to think it must be. Put the two of them together, and they in a world of hurt, all of their own making.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

Jeffrey wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-P8t6dzVA

The transcript of the bail hearing is in the first 6 minutes. He did actually refuse to apply for bail and the Crown guy stated his opposition to release based on history of failure to appear in court, previous convictions, prevent him from "continuing the offense" which I assume means driving without license, him having access to firearms, outstanding charges, and the seriousness of the charges.
Fantastic! Real, primary source Freeman vs. reality interactions are the heroin-to-the-aorta of my OPCA addiction, and this was a great find! (Sorry if you posted it earlier and I missed it.).
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by GlimDropper »

Just a quick mention for anyone who hadn't taken the time to notice about the "History is Now" videos. While I thank David Williams (the channel owner) for making the transcripts available he isn't simply offering them for edification, he's using them as advertising.

Mr. Williams correctly points out the errors of the sovereign/freeman gurus and how all the stuff they sell is complete trash. He understands that any time or money spent pursuing those teachings is wasted, after all he's figured out the real secrets and is willing to share them with you for the modest price of $27 a month. He reminds me of LB Bork in that way, an anti-guru guru but that's really just a marketing angle. Wait for someone with a following to implode upon impact with reality then swoop in and sell the disaffected followers on your own can't miss reality evasion techniques. After all, diplomatic immunity is just one of the perks of being your own Ambassador.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

Dean's news site has a news update at the bottom of the 2/12 page:

An update on the 2/13 hearing is followed by. . .

14th FEB 2014
Admin here: just so you know, those 5 dislikes were made within 30seconds of this update being made public. so it goes to show they are watching and these paid shill scum are keeping tabs on Dean’s activity online. we also were made aware that some people in Canada were unable to play the video and reports from other channels say that view counts are being messed with. goes so show how afraid they are. :-) really looking forward to release some amazing clips from the seminars soon.


Link: http://deanclifford.info/2014/02/12/update-brandon/
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Fmotlgroupie »

GlimDropper wrote:Just a quick mention for anyone who hadn't taken the time to notice about the "History is Now" videos. While I thank David Williams (the channel owner) for making the transcripts available he isn't simply offering them for edification, he's using them as advertising.
Yes, and what's worse he's indulging in that worst habit of Internet nut jobs: expressing everything in an unduly long video rather than even attempting the written word (at great trouble! I had the sound off, but did he read aloud as he slowly highlighted the text? For a pre existing text document he could have just posted!)

But, junkies can't be choosers so I'm still grateful
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by webhick »

arayder wrote:Dean's news site has a news update at the bottom of the 2/12 page:

An update on the 2/13 hearing is followed by. . .

14th FEB 2014
Admin here: just so you know, those 5 dislikes were made within 30seconds of this update being made public. so it goes to show they are watching and these paid shill scum are keeping tabs on Dean’s activity online. we also were made aware that some people in Canada were unable to play the video and reports from other channels say that view counts are being messed with. goes so show how afraid they are. :-) really looking forward to release some amazing clips from the seminars soon.


Link: http://deanclifford.info/2014/02/12/update-brandon/
Messing with page counts, blocking videos from an entire country and disliking posts are just really unimaginative obstructive methods. So unimaginative that we at the Illuminati find it to be a total waste of time.

We prefer to release photographs of you burying dead hookers in the desert (shout out to my homeboy, Photoshop Phil for his amazing work in this department), planting amphibian pornography on the Rainbow 1000 that you try to pass off as a modern computer and forcing Denny's to grind up all the dead rats better so you don't notice them (without us, you'd realize that the pancakes are like 42.435% fur and that you can pick up the sausages by their tails).

But you know, keep believing that we're messing with your precious hit counts and that we tap the dislike button with gleeful irony. Blocking Canada from seeing your stupid videos would be a public service...so... HOW DARE YOU!
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by arayder »

This reminds me of the whines I heard from some of my 4th grade classmates when they blamed their school failures on the fantasy that the teacher for "didn't like them".

To them the fact that they watched TV all night, every night and farted around in study hall didn't have anything to do with their failing grade.

Similarly, one has to observe that the Dean crew counts dislikes and views, but won't count the constant freeman loses dealt out in the cleansing light of open court.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

I was curious to see if I could learn anything more about the Feb. 13, 2014 appearance of Dean Clifford at the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench, and I learned something interesting which I had not previously noticed. His appearance was not apparently in relation to the Nov. 24, 2013 arrest and his drugs/guns proceeding in Provincial Court, but instead last year's February proceeding when he was 'doing donuts in a parking lot'.

You can view the results by going to the Manitoba courts registry site (http://www.jus.gov.mb.ca/) and entering the file number CR13-01-32571

The Clifford camp has, of course, exclaimed the fact that on Feb. 28, 2013 that proceeding was "struck". However, we now see that there are records of additional activity on this supposedly 'closed' file:
  • 27-Dec-2013 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - TO DEAN CLIFFORD, DATED 27-DEC-2013 RETURNING FAXED DOCUMENTS

    06-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB NOTICE OF MOTION (JUDGE) OF APPLICANT -ADJOURNED SINE DIE

    06-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB ORDER TO CONVEY A PRISONER

    13-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET BRYK J, 13FEB2014, ADJ SINE DIE
Frankly, I have little explanation for why these entries seem to relate to the old Feb. 2013 matter. I had thought Dean's appearance on Feb. 13, 2014 was some sort of habeus corpus-ish application to pop him out of the detention that followed his Nov. 24, 2013 arrest. Now it looks like the old Feb. 2013 charges are still live in some sense.

At least we know what file number to search.

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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

Weird coincidence that I had just noticed that yesterday. It shouldn't really be surprising since Dean did mention that they were bringing the February charges back; which he claimed to have "dealt with".

So how does it work, is there now a trial for the February stuff, another trial for the July stuff and another trial for the Federal stuff? Lump the provincial charges together then separate out the Federal stuff?
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

It would seem that Dean makes a lot of claims, but I wouldn't say that many/most of them hold up.

I would say from the sounds of it that he is going to get a lot of court time in before this is all over an done with.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

I stewed some more on the facts we have to date, and the information on the Manitoba courts database, and I think I have a more complete explanation for the data and what is going on with Dean, legally.

First a proviso - Canada's electronic court records databases are not uniform, and most are horribly old, some dating literally into the 1980's. A consequence of that is the records in them are in many instances not even intended to be 'publicly readable' - and I know when I have periodically pulled these kinds of records I have asked court clerks to explain certain items and they have been forced to say "well ... really can't tell - let's pull the file and look." The fact any of this data is available online is something of a miracle. Long and short, take my interpretation of the entries with a grain of salt.

First factoid - the Manitoba online records only include Queen's Bench and Court of Appeal proceedings - and not the Provincial Court. This has badly confused many of the Clifford clan because it doesn't mean that there are no Provincial Court proceedings that involve Clifford - it just means we can't obtain information on those online. Nothing conspiratorial or sneaky, it's just a question of any access to that system.

In answer to your question Jeffrey: criminal proceedings are usually grouped by the source incident, rather than the charges in question. Federal and provincial prosecutions of criminal charges are always conducted together if they flow from a single offence scenario. I've never sat down with a Federal / Provincial Crown prosecutor to ask how these 'hybrid' trials work out from a behind-the-scenes context (add that to my 'to do' list!) but I suspect they're both happy to simply have help to divide up the very considerable work.

So in this case we have two (or more) offence scenarios:
  • 1) Dean's 'doing donuts in the parking lot' and officer resistance/driving offence scenario that occurred in Gimli Manitoba, dating back in Feb. 2013.

    2) Dean's grow op and weapons charge offence scenario, dating to Nov. 2013.
These are two totally unrelated sets of offences, so each should normally lead to its own criminal prosecution and trial. Each took place at a separate time, a different location. Simply put, the two scenarios are not relevant to each other, so each would usually be a free-standing matter.

[Aside #1 - sometimes what looks like separate offence scenarios are grouped together because they do have some kind of evidentiary link or out of convenience, like a collection of 'spree offences', or more commonly where there are serial offences, but the details of the repeated offence types help understand one another. For example, murders that took place on different times and at different locations would usually lead to separate criminal proceedings, unless there were features of different murders that helped understand/prove other murders by what is called similar fact evidence - basically similarities in two or more apparently separate offences that are likely not coincidences.]

A second factor is that the Nov. 2013 offences are not going to be tried in Manitoba Provincial Court. Dean's grow op charge(s) must be tried in Manitoba Queen's Bench because that kind of offence is a more serious one, an indictable offence. What is currently happening is the preliminary hearing stage of the Nov. 2013 offence scenario proceeding, which does occur in Provincial Court. There will be a hearing where the Crown presents its evidence to the a Provincial Court judge, and that judge will decide whether or not the Crown has provided enough evidence to establish a basis for a case against Clifford to proceed to trial. Clifford does not need to do anything at that stage - though he can cross-examine and so on. It's entirely a Crown-driven proceeding.

We know that the Nov. 2013 offence scenario has not yet completed that stage because if it had, then the matter would move on to Queen's Bench for the trial proper. We don't see that entry on the Queen's Bench online records, so the preliminary hearing is still either underway or impending. My guess the latter - I don't see any reason to dispute Clifford's statements that he is going through a series of 'case management' hearings moving towards the preliminary hearing.

Ok, now to the Feb. 2013 offence scenario. My estimate is that proceeding was held in Provincial Court - it must start there, following the usual scheme, but because the charges appear to have been less serious I anticipate the trial would have occurred in that court. We know that Clifford was released on Feb. 28, 2013 (or around there). Clifford says his charges were stayed.

This all makes perfect sense. Clifford had spent about 3.5 weeks in judicial interim release pre-trial detention. The Crown very likely calculated its 'best result' at trial if Clifford was found guilty of everything and noted there was little chance they would get a sentence longer than that. There was little reason to proceed with the action because Dean had already been punished as much as he would ever be. So, the Crown decided to stay, but not drop the charges. Stayed charges could later be re-activated if there was a reason to do so.

[Aside #2 - this pattern occurs all the time in Freeman-on-the-Land criminal prosecutions. They do something dumb but mild, get arrested, refuse to accept the authority of the court so they end up detained in remand, a month or so later the Crown stays the charges. Brian Alexander, in particular, bitterly complains about how this keeps happening to him, 'where's the justice!? where's my trial?! they're afraid to take to trial!' No - the Crown is just being efficient with its resources.]

So - with those preliminary steps we can now look at the Queen's Bench court database records and make a little more sense of things:

Documents:
  • 20-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB NOTICE OF MOTION (JUDGE) WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS

    20-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB AFFIDAVIT MARTIN NEIL SUTTON SWORN 20FEB2013

    20-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB ACCEPTANCE OF SERVICE OF NOTICE OF MOTION ON CROWN; 20FEB2013

    20-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB ACCEPTANCE OF SERVICE OF AFFADAVIT OF SUTTON ON CROWN; 20FEB2013

    20-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB ORDER TO CONVEY A PRISONER

    21-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB AFFIDAVIT OF MARTIN NEIL SUTTON, 21FEB2013

    21-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB ACCEPTANCE OF SERVICE OF AFFIDAVIT OF NEIL SUTTON, ON ATTORNEY GENERAL, 21FEB2013

    27-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM DEAN CLIFFORD, 16FEB2013

    28-Feb-2013 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET CHARTIER, J 28FEB2013 MATTER STRUCK

    27-Dec-2013 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - TO DEAN CLIFFORD, DATED 27-DEC-2013 RETURNING FAXED DOCUMENTS

    06-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB NOTICE OF MOTION (JUDGE) OF APPLICANT -ADJOURNED SINE DIE

    06-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB ORDER TO CONVEY A PRISONER

    13-Feb-2014 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET BRYK J, 13FEB2014, ADJ SINE DIE
Hearings:
  • 28-Feb-2013 10:00 STRUCKOFF CRIMINAL UNCONTESTED MOTIONS(THURS-10:00) WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS

    13-Feb-2014 10:00 ADJOURNED CRIMINAL UNCONTESTED MOTIONS(THURS-10:00) OF APPLICANT -ADJOURNED SINE DIE
What we are seeing is two applications by Clifford - both originating from Clifford - filed in Queen's Bench in an attempt by Clifford to pop himself out of detention.

On Feb. 20, 2013 Clifford filed a habeas corpus application - a legally appropriate application and potentially one on which the Queen's Bench could make a decision. It was supported by affidavits and served on the Crown. A hearing was scheduled for Feb. 28, 2013.

Clifford is then released, and now the habeas corpus application is irrelevant - and is struck from the Feb. 28, 2013 hearing list.

The Clifford camp has placed great emphasis on that result, claiming that means the charges against Dean were struck out. Not the case. Those charges were still in Provincial Court and never made it to the higher Queen's Bench court. What we see here is a record of Dean attempting to use his right to challenge detention and detention conditions (which exists) in the correct court which has the inherent jurisdiction to hear that application, the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench. On Feb. 28, 2013 that item was struck from the list because it was irrelevant - Clifford was out.

Ok, now to the more recent set of entries.
  • Dec. 27, 2013 - Dean tries to file documents by fax, they are returned. Presumably the documents are defective in some manner.

    Feb. 6, 2104 - Dean files more magic paperwork, this time a hearing is scheduled for Feb. 13, 2014

    Feb. 13, 2014 - the hearing occurs and is adjourned to an unspecified future data.
The fact these entries are under the same file number as the Feb. 2013 entries strongly suggests to me the Feb. 2013 charges have be 'unstayed', and are now proceeding once again. Dean once more attempts to pop himself out of detention. I'll assume that the Winnipeg Alternative Media report on the Feb. 13, 2014 hearing is vaguely accurate, and presume that Dean has filed largely useless material, but since the Crown has just seen this stuff it wants time to properly respond. The hearing has been adjourned until a date can be suggested for full disposal of Dean's Feb. 6, 2014 magic paperwork.

And there we sit.

So, in conclusion, Dean is probably facing at least two sets of charges that relate to two offence scenarios, one from Feb. 2013, the second from Nov. 2014. Both are presently in Manitoba Provincial Court. Dean's activities to date at the Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench are strictly attempts to challenge his detention, and thus far unsuccessful.

These records show no attempt by Dean to have his denial of bail reviewed at Queen's Bench, and as I have previously posted, a habeas corpus-like application in Queen's Bench will inevitably fail because bail review is Dean's appropriate remedy.

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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Jeffrey »

Which leaves a huge mystery as to what's going on with the July traffic stop/obstruction/assault PO which caused both the February charges to be restarted and the grow-up and gun discoveries.

Just gotta be patient for now I guess.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by Hilfskreuzer Möwe »

I'm afraid so...

It's a pity we don't have a Winnipeg agent to pop into their courthouse to review the file(s) and offer some more concrete evidence. You know, it's a little surprising that none of the activist types who seem so excited about Dean are unwilling to take the step to review the court files and simply have photocopies made of things such as, for example, Dean's submissions. There are small charges associated with that, but really they aren't all that much.

Heck, I see that the Provincial Court is only charging a dollar to provide a copy of an accused person's "information" (the document that indicates the criminal charges), bail reviews, probation orders, or so on.

One would think these activist folk would be interested in knowing and sharing more about what's up. At least, that would be my perspective.

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That’s you and your crew, Mr. Hilfskreuzer. You’re just like a vampire, you must feel quite good about while the blood is dripping down from your lips onto the page or the typing, uhm keyboard there... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMoUnUiDqg at 11:25]
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

I would suspect that a lot/most of them have good reason for not going in to any court facility where they might be recognized, and you are assuming that their reading capabilities are up to actually dealing with something like those files would contain.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by LaVidaRoja »

Besides -- why should they obtain the allegedly truthful documents from the court when their imagination is SO much more exciting?
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Re: Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

Post by notorial dissent »

And doesn't contradict what they want to believe.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.