Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[Fussygus]

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."
Confucius

[notorial dissent]

I once speculated that Dean and Co learned their cray cray at the paternal knee, and was later disabused of that idea, that although the parents love and support Dean to a point they weren't the reason. I still don't know if that is entirely true or not, but it could well be. Dean's catalog of failures on the other hand would all seem to lead inexorably back to Dean though. Every time I come across something I just keep going back to the feeling that he is real thin in the thinking department, and so far nothing has disproved that. I do think it is safe to say that Dean's reach far exceeds his abilities in ALL things. I think as you put it "small man's syndrome" does explain a lot of Dean. There is just so much barely repressed rage and anger there that it is concerning.

[Jeffrey]

To address ND's point. The source for rejecting that argument is that in multiple interviews Dean has stated his parents and grandparents don't support his Freeman antics. It would be good to hear it straight from the horses mouth but I get the sense the Clifford brothers are being honest about their daddy issues.

[notorial dissent]

Which then makes the question of whereof even more confusing.

[Fussygus]

Frustration, angst, a feeling of injustice! That is where I would suspect Dean has drawn his motivation from.
You will probably find that the largest contingent of these types come from the likes of the self employed and/or the socially isolated. The self employed are the most susceptible to a feeling of frustration when they are faced with the Red Monster of Tape. Why? Anyone within these ranks will likely agree that the Monster can make one feel extremely vulnerable no matter how due diligent you try to be. Many divisions of the Monster leave it to you to disprove a determination they make versus the believed, and promulgated, guise that you are innocent until proven guilty. The ruling is made and the act undertaken until YOU appeal and have it overruled.

Have you ever returned an item because it failed in the warranty period and the store said they are not warrantying it. Where they say that you must have dropped it and that is why it failed. Who wouldn't be furious if they knew they didn't drop it. Who would know that there is a mechanism to appeal such a ruling, let alone have the will and energy to fight over the warranting of a $50 item? You are left with a bad taste in your mouth and very likely a strong propensity to never want to deal with that store ever again.

The difference here is that you have no choice but to deal with the government store, they are the only place you can get medical attention. They have an absolute monopoly and can thumb their noses at any customers they like (not that they actually do) they can't buy from any other store no matter how much they think they are getting screwed. Think of the frustration and anger that someone would feel if they were being charged $100 for the loaf of bread, that they need to survive, knowing it doesn't cost that much and the guy down the street gets it for $3 OR the guy down the street gets it for free ....because he is rich.

Warren Buffet has been quoted as saying he pays less tax than his secretary. Does this not make one feel that the government store is somehow unjust?

Dean has a disdain for the store and wants to badly prove he that he can survive without it, to the point of fanaticism. He feels he has been getting screwed and is picketing in front of their shop trying to tell everyone else not to shop there. He is soo blinded by anger that he can't stop himself to realize he is wasting his own life in doing so. His ego has invested his entire life in getting back at the store. To stop now requires that he essentially ask his deemed mortal enemy for forgiveness. Just image asking the drunk driver, who ran into your car and ended up paralyzing you from the waste down; that you see bragging about how drunk he was that night to his buddies; ......for forgiveness. You ask him to forgive YOU because you have been holding him in disdain. It takes a very big man to realize that holding onto the disdain you have for him ....is killing YOU. Letting go is in fact the best thing you can do for yourself, you can't change the past.

Fuzzy

[JamesVincent]

Warren Buffet has been quoted as saying he pays less tax than his secretary. Does this not make one feel that the government store is somehow unjust?

Fuzzy

And, like Dean, Buffet lies to make a point. Whether or not Dean feels justified in his hatred of the government store it would still make no sense to throw yourself into situation after situation that damages himself. Sure, anti-government views, protest marching, making demands of your representative until they get sick of hearing from you. But to purposefully and continually do things that harm himself says there is something more to it then just dissatisfaction with the way the government handles things.

[Dezcad]

And, like Dean, Buffet lies to make a point.

What does Buffet lie about?

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/ec ... ary-taxes/

[JamesVincent]

And, like Dean, Buffet lies to make a point.

What does Buffet lie about?

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/ec ... ary-taxes/

IDK how he was saying anything in that article since he provided no figures at all. However, even according to that article, his tax would have risen at a minimum of 5%, he said 8-9%, while the secretary's would have risen by 2%.

[Fussygus]

Whether or not Dean feels justified in his hatred of the government store it would still make no sense to throw yourself into situation after situation that damages himself. Sure, anti-government views, protest marching, making demands of your representative until they get sick of hearing from you. But to purposefully and continually do things that harm himself says there is something more to it then just dissatisfaction with the way the government handles things.

It has gotten bigger than a dissatisfaction with things, he is stuck. He has invested so much in vilifying the government store that to admit he was unfounded in his actions towards it is just too painful a pill to swallow. He would rather cut off his right arm than feel the immense disgrace that would come with admitting he was wrong.

Look around you and I bet you could easily find a divorce' who has acted in just the same way as Dean, wherein they would act in a fashion that leaves their children in poverty rather than make consent to help support them. The ones they profess to love are left vulnerable because they would rather pay a lawyer rather than a spouse. No it isn't logical from the outside, but it appears perfectly reasonable to the person from the inside.

To admit they were wrong is to admit they were an idiot, to admit you didn't know better. To do so for many is worse than death and you will find more than a few gravestones erected because someone failed. Someone who has nothing can never understand a businessman killing himself because his business failed, but it happens lots. Anymore-so than a fit person can understand why someone who is fat who eats fast food every day when they obviously know it isn't good for them.

Dean is a smoker, alcoholic, drug addict, obese person, and a workaholic. He is addicted to the reward of his ego saying he is right, and no amount of drug counseling, no amount of persuasion that he is killing himself, no threats that his wife will leave him, no heart surgery, will convince him that what he is doing is against his best interests. He is shooting up in front of his kids and doesn't see any problem with that. He is blind to his addiction and cannot see it. He is addicted to his ego so much that he can't even think rationally when he announces over a recorded phone call that he will kill cops. He is insane and as such society must help him. Help him overcome his addiction.

"We cannot teach people anything, we can only help them discover it within themselves." Galileo Galilei

Fuzzy

[arayder]

I point out that:

1. Dean's hate mongering pre-dates his freeman days. . .going back at least to his associations white supremacists.

2. No one in Dean's fairly large network of family and friends was successful in getting him the counseling and, or mentoring he needed to overcome his anger issues. One has to wonder what sort of relationship Dean has with his wife such that she couldn't or wouldn't do what so many wives are good at . . .talking some sense into the wild man/child they married.

3. On a few occasions during the hours and hours of Dean's youtubes, web radio talks, vimeos, and audio recorded messages Dean mused that he thought he might be giving in too much to his anger and was considering a more peaceful, thoughtful approach.

One wonders if Dean didn't get those ideas from a family member or close friend who had a heart to heart talk with him.

[ontobserver]

Warren Buffet has been quoted as saying he pays less tax than his secretary. Does this not make one feel that the government store is somehow unjust?

Fuzzy

And, like Dean, Buffet lies to make a point. Whether or not Dean feels justified in his hatred of the government store it would still make no sense to throw yourself into situation after situation that damages himself. Sure, anti-government views, protest marching, making demands of your representative until they get sick of hearing from you. But to purposefully and continually do things that harm himself says there is something more to it then just dissatisfaction with the way the government handles things.

I think Buffet was saying he paid tax at a lower rate than his secretary due to the fact that much of his earnings are capital gains. However, even at these lower rates, his tax bill would still be much larger than that of his secretary.

[JamesVincent]

In 2007 Buffet came out and said that he paid a 17.7% tax rate, making $46 million, while his secretary paid a 30% tax rate, making $60k. The rate for Buffet sounds about right since a lot of income does come from capital gains, stock dividends and such. The rate for his secretary is false, her tax bracket would have been in the 25% max range to start with, not 30%, and not even in the high end of the 25% bracket. By the time she had written off herself, even with no other deductions at all, she should have been down around 17-18% of income herself. If she had written off anything else, like mortgage, depreciation on a vehicle, etc. her tax rate would have been well below Buffet's. Buffet had made no effort to differentiate between marginal and effective tax rates. Buffet had also made the statement that he had made this low rate even though he had made no effort to claim deductions or get a tax break, which does not sound right. If he indeed written everything off as personal income, and not written it off as capital gains, he would have had a tax rate of 35% or so, maybe slightly lower. There was an article in Forbes? at the time where they tried to guess her income, based on his statement of what her tax liability was, and they guessed it would have to have been in the $200k or higher range, no way she could have had the liability he stated with the income he had given. Taxes are bad enough, there was no need to lie about them.

[JamesVincent]

Look around you and I bet you could easily find a divorce' who has acted in just the same way as Dean, wherein they would act in a fashion that leaves their children in poverty rather than make consent to help support them. The ones they profess to love are left vulnerable because they would rather pay a lawyer rather than a spouse. No it isn't logical from the outside, but it appears perfectly reasonable to the person from the inside.
Fuzzy

Oh, hell, I wouldn't even have to look around. My ex-wife said at one point she would rather be in jail then to pay me child support. In court. And the courts let her get out of it. But at some point in time you have to look in the mirror. I am, by no stretch, an angel and I faced my demons a long time ago. I never was into drugs and I quit drinking long before I had kids, maybe some year I'll get around to the smoking. All of us have our demons, somewhere. But like I said, at some point you have to look in the mirror and wonder if it is all worth it. I remember going to a parade a number of years ago, watching all the police cruisers going by, and thinking, damn, the last time I saw that many flashing lights they were in my rearview mirror. Much easier to be on the side of the angels, and the food is better.

[Fussygus]

“His ideology is just so strong and so powerful that it clouds his vision for common sense and objectiveness,” Conditsis said.

This is a quote from:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/ ... monis.html

As I said it is a physiological impediment which is not easily overcome. The current arrangement is to institutionalize these individuals with the thought that "a time out" will cure them of there problem. The sorry reality is doing just that probably hardens more resolve than it cures.

It takes a strong will to diligently and consistently work towards breaking down such a powerful barrier. A single man would be hard pressed to hold onto such resolve when faced with the stark reality of our institutions.

Is there a solution? All we can do is try, but I would have to say that the current state appears to be getting worse more than better.

Fuzzy

[Hanslune]

Well our hero is about to spend his second Christmas in jail - do you think the lights might go on in his head?

[notorial dissent]

No more than I expect any of the FOTL types to suddenly grow some common sense or responsibility.

[arayder]

One has to remember that the freeman cult believes that:

- Western governments are nothing more than incorporated businesses with whom freemen may cancel one's contractual obligations.

- Judges, court officials and cops are the evil agents of "corporate governments" who conspire to unlawfully enforce "corporate policy" upon non-consenting freemen.

- All the freemen who have failed to be exonerated by the courts just didn't do "it" right and consequently were railroaded by the evil courts.

- The debunkers of freemanism are paid government shills. Lawyers are the worst shills.

- All western governments have created cash filled corporate accounts for each of it citizens which, freemen, upon removing their consent may access.

- Since banks, mortgage and loan companies don't loan money freemen may pay off their mortgages and loans with carefully worded letters and promissory notes.

- The average men and women who value tradition western democracy are ignorant sheeple.

In light of this insane belief system what makes one think any freeman is going to thoughtfully re-examine what he or she thinks?

[The Observer]

Well our hero is about to spend his second Christmas in jail - do you think the lights might go on in his head?

No, I think it is more likely that if any lights go on, it will be the Christmas lights that the guards put up.

[bmxninja357]

dean gets a mention here. and it gives annett a kick in the pants too.
ITCCS Juror: There was no ITCCS trial of UK Queen & Pope Ratzinger. Trial a Kevin Annett fabrication
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku4kNWHT8rg
peace,
ninj

[Jeffrey]

Some non-updates from the Court registry:

An order to convey prisoner filed December 12th and the Judge filed a pre-trial memo December 22.

Edit: it was interesting to see Kevin's debunkers in Bmx's link take a detour into talking about zionism and denying the holocaust. Good indication of the type of people he appeals to.