Snow removal ticket

[Tsubodai]

Greetings to everyone,
I’m a new member but a long time lurker. My interest in FMOTL started with the misadventures of my, at the time, brother in law trying to fight a speeding ticket with the name game. It was hilarious to watch him fail and almost get into far more trouble due to his court room shenanigans. Although I thought his antics were idiotic, being a libertarian at heart, I was interested in some of the questions about authority. I realized then as I do now that this is fundamentally a philosophical question and really has very little place in a discussion of modern practical law. I’ve lurked on pretty much every freeman site out there and always enjoy reading the well thought out rebuttals on good forums like this one.

With the intro out of the way I have a question to the forum. I have a specific ticket that I received that I think is unfair and touches on so many of the freeman core values that I’m curious what “they” have to say about how I should deal with it. I was hoping that intelligent folks here could help me out getting a better understanding of things in reality before I go poke the bear (maybe TPUC lol).

The ticket is for not shoveling “my” sidewalk. I live on a corner lot and there is no direct access from my yard to this stretch of sidewalk. My question to you fine folks is this, is there any reasonable legal recourse for me to fight this ticket due to the ownership of said land? That question or something along those lines is what I’m thinking of posing to the fmotl gurus and wanna be’s out there.

Too be clear I will be paying the fine as I know it will just be added to my property taxes if I don’t pay it and I don’t have the time to play games with the system. I’ll be more than happy to give more information or answer any relevant questions.


p.s. Sorry forgot to mention I live in Edmonton.

[wserra]

What is the ordinance or statute that makes you responsible for snow clearance?

[Jeffrey]

Isn't that usually for pushing the snow onto the street?

[Tsubodai]

bylaw 14600 community standards

[Chaos]

there is no direct access from my yard to this stretch of sidewalk.

what exactly does this mean? Either it's on your property (10' easements not withstanding) and your responsibility as deemed by the town (rightly or wrongly) or not.
It may also be your responsibility to repair it since you are allegedly held responsible to clear it.
Usually a 'bylaw' is in reference to a homeowners association.

[Wake Up! Productions]

What is the ordinance or statute that makes you responsible for snow clearance?

http://www.edmonton.ca/bylaws_licences/C14600.pdf

SIDEWALKS 7
A person shall maintain any sidewalk adjacent to land they own or
occupy clear of all snow and ice.

[AndyK]

Many communities have ordinances in place mandating snow removal.

In Rockville, MD, sidewalks must be cleared within 24 hours of the end of the snowfall -- 48 hours if it is over xxx inches deep. There are exceptions for disabled residents.

The intent of the law is to enhance public safety.

However, the fines are so nominal that many businesses choose to pay the fine rather than pay for snow removal.

I, too, owned a corner lot. Clearing five-foot drifts off a couple of hundred feet of sidewalk is not fun. But, I did my civic duty -- I paid a neighbor's children to do it.

[Wake Up! Productions]

But, I did my civic duty -- I paid a neighbor's children to do it.

I think you just hit the nail on the head. I don't know how much the ticket is for, but surely paying a neighbor's kid to do it would be cheaper than the ticket.

[Tsubodai]

What I meant by having no access was that my yard is fenced and this sidewalk is on the side of my house beyond the fence.

I do understand that there is a bylaw and according to it I'm totally at fault. I guess my point was how does the city get away with forcing me to maintain their property?

Also I do shovel this section regularly but it was over x-mas and I was out of town. I've got 100 other excuses too but thats not really the point.

[Wake Up! Productions]

I guess my point was how does the city get away with forcing me to maintain their property?

The same way they can "get away" with tearing up your beautiful front garden (that you worked all spring on perfecting) in order to replace sewer pipes. In Ontario it is called "The Land Titles Act".

In my opinion, you will be hard pressed to find anyone here that will come up with some legal theory to assist you.

[Jeffrey]

Here's a better question. Did you know you had to shovel the snow and chose not to do it?

[BBFlatt]

About 20 years ago a neighbor of mine, an attorney, received a notice from the city that the sidewalk on his property was in disrepair and that he was responsible for correcting the situation. A short time later he hosted a garden party, during the course of which picks and sledgehammers were provided to the guests and we proceeded to break up the walkway and turn the rubble into planters. Sod was planted in the former path of the sidewalk and so his responsibility for sidewalk maintenance was ended.

[Burnaby49]

there is no direct access from my yard to this stretch of sidewalk.

what exactly does this mean? Either it's on your property (10' easements not withstanding) and your responsibility as deemed by the town (rightly or wrongly) or not.
It may also be your responsibility to repair it since you are allegedly held responsible to clear it.
Usually a 'bylaw' is in reference to a homeowners association.

Not correct, at least in Vancouver. The sidewalk in front of my house is public land exactly the same as the street itself is public land. My property line stops perhaps ten feet from the curb but I am responsible for some of the maintenance of that ten feet. Actual repairs (broken sidewalk, water damage) are the municipality's responsibility. However clearing the sidewalk of snow and ice are legally my responsibility even though I don't own the land. Rarely enforced here in Vancouver but I have seen it done.

The homeowners on my street even had to pay directly for the installation of the sidewalk. When the street was put in neither side had sidewalks. Eventually the homeowners complained enough that the city said it would put them in if the property owners paid for it. Enough agreed so they were put in. Instead of the hassle of getting individuals to pay and having some homeowner contest it on the basis they hadn't agreed to the installation the city just added the cost to the property tax bills as an additional levy. Before my time but it was still on my taxes when I bought the house.

Bylaws are just the name given to municipal laws. If Burnaby bans or regulated parking it's done through a municipal bylaw.

As far as Tsubodai is concerned he can fight it but he won't win. I'm not aware that sidewalk clearing bylaws have ever been successfully challenged.

[Hyrion]

I realized then as I do now that this is fundamentally a philosophical question

I guess my point was how does the city get away with forcing me to maintain their property?

Consider the alternative.

One must ask who "they" are: "they" are the citizens of the Town - public property after all. So... you are part of "they" when you say "maintain their property".

And how does a Town pay for services to which they are responsible for maintaining such as clearing main roadways of snow? Through Taxes.

So.... would you rather be directly responsible for clearing the snow off the sidewalk adjacent to your property covering the costs as you see fit in your own ways (such as shoveling the snow yourself or paying the neighbors kid)....

or....

Would you rather have another hidden cost in your property taxes and control of how the sidewalks are cleared is up to politicians?

One way or t'other: "they" - the town society of which you are a member, including you, which is lead by elected representatives - will see to it you pay your fair share of the snow removal.

[Tsubodai]

Thanks for all the replies. I know I wouldn't win and have no real plans of fighting the fine.

I'm was aware that the city says this is my responsibility and I guess it could be said I chose not to do it, out of town, but where is the line the city can't cross. There are street lights and curbs on the same property, could the city pass a bylaw that those were also my job and force me to get a long ladder and change the bulbs?

[Jeffrey]

Think the line is drawn by the voters in this situation.

[Tsubodai]

Sorry about the lack of quotes in my replies still getting the hang of things.

Hyrion
I realize it is "our" property and one way or the other I'm paying. I pay my taxes just like my neighbor with the difference being he does not have 100 feet of volunteer labor to do.

[wserra]

Sorry about the lack of quotes in my replies still getting the hang of things.

No problem. But our resident tech guru, webhick, has prepared a basic BBCode tutorial which you might find very helpful. Welcome to Q.

[Burnaby49]

Thanks for all the replies. I know I wouldn't win and have no real plans of fighting the fine.

I'm was aware that the city says this is my responsibility and I guess it could be said I chose not to do it, out of town, but where is the line the city can't cross. There are street lights and curbs on the same property, could the city pass a bylaw that those were also my job and force me to get a long ladder and change the bulbs?

The homeowner requirements, at least in the greater Vancouver area, are pretty minimal. Keep the sidewalks clear and keep the land itself maintained. Generally this just means mowing the grass and stopping plants like blackberries from overrunning the sidewalk. We took out the grass and put in broken stone with shrubbery. City doesn't care as long as it's maintained. You can theorize about a red line that has you changing streetlights but in real life the bylaws regarding your boulevard responsibility aren't going to change. Probably the only reason sidewalk snow-shoveling is standard in Canada is that it's just too impractical for a municipality to clear al the sidewalks so they pass the responsibility down to those most affected by the snow.

[Wake Up! Productions]

Perhaps the only lesson to be learned here is ... never buy a corner lot !!!