Schaeffer Cox trial underway in Alaska

[akbill]

Thats funny as hell.


I am so happy to have found this group aside from myself and a few Agents I work with I've never run into anybody that knows anything about SC's

[davids]

Thats funny as hell.


I am so happy to have found this group aside from myself and a few Agents I work with I've never run into anybody that knows anything about SC's

Yeah, they're good comic material to some of us, it sounds like you know far more about them.

[akbill]

I don't know if I know more about them I have defiantly spent a lot of time with them it seems that every time I think I have a handle on what there doing something comes out of left field like the the whole Postmaster General thing still trying to understand that one

[davids]

I don't know if I know more about them I have defiantly spent a lot of time with them it seems that every time I think I have a handle on what there doing something comes out of left field like the the whole Postmaster General thing still trying to understand that one

That's a new one on me. Why would someone want to pretend to be a "postmaster general." That's sort of like appointing one's self the assistant vice dog catcher. How does that equate to free money, not needing a driver's license, and bad interpretation of the Constitution?

[Jeffrey]

I been immersing myself in some :David-Wynn: Miller recently and I believe he may be the current father of this theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL0TX_Kazo

Essentially it boils down to his belief that Courts are actually vessels in drydock, which means they are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Transit Administration, which is in turn under the control of the Postmaster General, the Post Office and at a higher level the Universal Postal Union.

Although Postal conspiracy theories predate the internet, I think we all remember the Seinfeld episode on that one.

[fortinbras]

David-Winn: Miller is the "father" of something so schizo that only he can understand it. That hasn't deterred him from scamming a bunch of gullible and/or desperate people.
He has come up with an impenetrable version of English that sounds a bit like South Sea Pidgin English, which he sometimes calls "truth language" but which the courts have repeatedly called gibberish. Miller is convinced that, somehow, statutes and court decisions are written - or can be deciphered - using this patois to show their "true" meaning, which (when he explains it) seems always to be the opposite of what it says, what the legislators said it says, and what the courts said it says.

In his lingo most sentences begin with "FOR-THE" with almost everything in capitals and many hyphens. He also calls himself a Postmaster and a Plenipotentiary Judge.

For a while he was traveling the country spouting this stuff. Once, about 20 years ago, he was on one of those shortwave programs and I phoned up and asked him directly what evidence there was that this language was used, or even known, before he started peddling it, and he was completely stumped. About ten years ago he was in Hawaii, associating with other clowns who were calling themselves Hawaiian royalty of an independent nation of Hawaii. Then he tried the same crap in Canada, where they really do speak English, and the Canadians, in the meanest thing they've done since they invaded in 1812, sent him back to us.

I know this will come as a great surprise but his courtroom successes, in both the US and Canada, come to zero.

[grixit]

I heard about another language conspiracy theory some years ago. In this one, the break point came during the Congress of Vienna. That was the pan-european get together intended to clean up after Napoleon (though, wisely, they left the HRE abolished). Anyway, according to the conspiricists, the nations were so economically messed up, they had to borrow money from the usual jews, in this case the Rothchilds.

And part of the price of this loan was that henceforth, all legal papers must be parsed as if written in Hebrew, ie right to left. Judges, government lawyers, and high ranking bureaucrats all know this. Poor slobs who are just looking for justice don't, and never understand why they get shafted in court because they don't know how to properly read even their own filings.

I think this is actually one step crazier than TRUTH-LANGUAGE.

[davids]

Sometimes I feel guilty about laughing so hard at these guys...

[akbill]

I swear the rabbit hole has no end

[akbill]

Hey I don't know if this is allowed but I just started my own Blog. I have a book coming out about the Alaska Militia/ Schaeffer Cox case and my agent felt it would be a good idea to do a blog . So if you want to stop by www.williamfulton.net Its just me talking about crazy domestic terrorist but its fun

[grixit]

Fair enough. Please ignore the chorus of groans that you'll be hearing every time you use the words "book" and "publish" in the same sentence.

[akbill]

Its been a hell of a process and dealing with the publisher has been pure hell but I got a good Agent from LGI and it seems to be moving along I just want it done at this point its been a two year process

[GlimDropper]

So if you want to stop by http://www.williamfulton.net Its just me talking about crazy domestic terrorist but its fun

So you are William "Dropzone Bill" Fulton? Interesting.

If so I'm sure a lot of questions could follow. One that spring to mind, owing to the nature of this forum would be the relationship between "sovereign citizen" beliefs and Schaeffer Cox's malitia activities. Prior to his arrest and trial Scaeffer was something of an up and coming personality in the "sovosphere." Videos of him applying sovcit tactics in court hearings over his misdemeanor firearms charge drew many views on YouTube yet when he was facing federal charges he (wisely) dropped all the mythology and got a real lawyer.

What role did sovereign citizen mythology play in Schaeffer's social circle (in so far as you know)? How prevalent are those ideas among Alaska's wider militia membership in general?

I'll thank you for any insights you can share with us.

[akbill]

Good questions and I'l answer them as best as I can

Yeh I'm that Bill figured I said it before but if not let me confirm.

On the Question of Schaeffer Cox and his SC beliefs and how that worked with the militia its a little complicated.

Cox's road to SC belief was fast I witnessed the whole debacle from him trying to run on the republican ticket ticket in 2008 to his arrest in 2011

One of the scariest things I witnessed was the gradual acceptance of SC philosophy by the nationwide Militia movement. Cox was not a rarity it is amazing how many times I'll be looking into a militia member and low and behold there active with RuSA, or some other group of idiots. Once you've convinced yourself the governments out to get you its not a far leap to convince oneself that the government doesn't matter.

Funny thing Schaeffer is now using the fact that his lawyer didn't use a lot of SC Bullshit in his defense as grounds for his appeal.

[notorial dissent]

akbill, congratulations.

I hadn't realized that Cox was quite that much of a phenomenon, but, I can see it.

I got in to an argument about Cox a while back, my position being that he was a true classic full on sociopath of the charming and ingratiating variety, and that he used his innate charm and boyish innocence to lull his victims in to a state of vulnerability and then outright compliance with his fantasies. I think he worked most of what he did by getting in to his victims fantasies and fears and playing to them and then pretending to present a solution to them that went along with their fantasies, and by doing that they were suddenly part of a group and were no longer on the fringe, except in reality.

My suspicion is that he started out in the GOP looking for adherents(too organized and set in there ways and not open to the young and upcoming with new ideas), and didn't find any that would suit his purposes and had to look further afield, and found his natural home with the sovcit or proto-sovcit crowd you have in AK, of the disaffected, disenfranchised, dissatisfied, disorganized, marginalized, militia crowd you have up there, seemed to have no difficulty finding followers and a hard core cadre of "true believers" he could mold to his purposes, and did.

I am not sure exactly where he was heading, but I have noticed that along the way he pretty much went out of the way to keep his hands for the most part clean, and that if anything nasty happened it would lead back to his presumably dead by then victims rather than his guiding hand. My personal suspicion is that none of his action teams or whatever they were calling themselves were really meant to actually survive their planned attacks on the enemy for any one of a number of reasons. It just seems in keeping with the mind set i saw that in sending his minions out to carry out his plans he would also be sending them out to die for the "glorious revolution/him". My feeling is that there are/were some really nasty demons lurking in the back of his psyche just waiting for an opportunity to get out, and I think we are all very lucky that he wasn't as smart and charming and innocent as he thought he was, and that it all fell apart before anyone really got hurt. I did feel a little, very teensy tiny itty bit, sorry about his co-conspirators, as under other circumstances I don't think they would ever have done anything remotely like they did, but the fact that they could sit there while discussing what were effectively a string of very cold blooded brutal murders and not even bat an eye pretty well puts paid to any sympathy that might exist.

I'm just really glad he is not loose to be plotting anything else, and hopefully not likely to be loose any time soon.

[akbill]

That is incredibly intuitive coming from somebody who wast present.

Now I am not a doctor but I agree with you on the sociopath statement and your spot on about his willingness and outright encouragement of his followers to die for him.

He made statement's like
"I'm to important to the movement to risk killing myself thats where you guys come in" and "I can't be held responsible for what the free men who believe in my cause choose to do" I have always thought of him as more Manson than McVeigh.

His start in the GOP was a direct rout through the Ron Paul campaign where he was a paid staffer he found his willing converts in the early Ron Paul arm of the party and it was almost like he was a spiritual head or pastor when he spoke I felt like I was back in church as a kid. Schaeffer Cox didn't talk to people he preached to them.

He found more than enough converts in the Ron Paul/Tea Party side after loosing the election he started the Interior Alaska Conservative Coalition that is still a force in Alaska politics today, thats the same time he started the Liberty Bell group (were his initial weapons charge stemmed from), The Alaska Peacemakers Militia, and the Assembly Post he had his own little fiefdom going along up there at the top were the really crazy SC's in the Assembly post then some of those guys were officers in the Peacemakers with the remainder being guys who the Liberty bell just wasn't enough, then all the 2nd Amendment Bullets and God people in the Liberty bell, with the loosely associated conservatives in the IACC at the bottom. He was smart the large majority numbers wise of his supports in the IACC at the bottom had no idea of what was going on or even that the assembly post even existed. He was able for about two years to cherry pick folks from those groups for inclusion in the next one and so on. His eventual down fall was when he started to believe his own BS if he had just stayed a snake oil sales man that knew his product was bunk he would have been fine. About 9 months before his arrest was when he had gone full on SC and convinced himself of his "God given responsibility to lead this nation against the government aggressors" that happened in direct relation to his trips to the lower 48 where he met some real SC gurus (Tim Turner) etc

The Militia connection is interesting because Schaeffer Cox was one of the first we saw it in and now SC beliefs are wide spread in almost every militia group we encounter. I think that all started from his speeches in MT once he had exposed those guys to it it spread. Where violent SC's use to be the exception we are encountering more and more violence in dealing with them. The threat goes largely unnoticed due to the lack of Media reporting on it When a militia guySC gets into a shootout with a traffic cop 9 times out of ten its reported as a standard police shooting etc

[notorial dissent]

He would have found very fertile fields in the groups he was working to grow his band of misfits and which is why he would have chosen those groups to hunt from, they were a perfect accompaniement to his purpose. Mind you, I am postulating that this was in fact the victim field he was hunting and grooming for his later efforts. He was looking for proxies to carry out the nastiness in his head, and the intended murder victims, while desirable targets/prizes to the the proxies were nothing but window dressing to his machinations.

I don't know, but would suspect that Cox was of well above average intelligence, I don't feel or have the impression that he was ever properly schooled or educated or had ever been challenged by much. It would seem that his charisma and charm came naturally and he learned his "preacher" talent at his father's knee, and used it to very good extent. I would also suspect that he went out of his way to hide his intelligence from his followers lest they become suspicious and realize he was using them, and that he consciously felt superior and infinitely more important than any of his followers.

Your report of his statement confirms this in my mind,

"I'm to important to the movement to risk killing myself thats where you guys come in"
and
"I can't be held responsible for what the free men who believe in my cause choose to do"

There speaks a true user of patsies and not a leader of men, and goes back to my prior sociopath commentary, the only thing important in his life was him, him, him.

I think you are right in the militia connection, as they were basically little unorganized free range lunatics, most of them with a gripe of one kind or another and a serious chip on their shoulders, but far too disorganized, disassociated, and small to come to any kind of collective agreement. Cox was the catalyst, the infection point if you will, in that he provided them something they couldn't do themselves, and that was to form something of a coherent collective, at least as long as he was at the head of it. I don't remember their being mention of anyone being groomed as a second in command, and will in fact bet that anyone even remotely fitting that description was rather ruthlessly and quickly excised from the group. This was Schaeffer's hunting ground and he wasn't the kind that shared.

[akbill]

Interesting you would post about his second in command he had two both of them were very introverted type B personalities that showed absolutely zero threat to Schaeffers leadership. I never understood why somebody would put those guys in a leadership position it does make sense now.

I really hate it when I have all the information to figure out a puzzle and it just takes someday rearranging the pieces to figure it out. Thanks for the insight

[notorial dissent]

That explains a question I'd had buzzing around. They'd do EXACTLY as he told them, as their status would depend entirely upon him, he would protect them, and encourage them, and raise their group and individual status, they would be a strong protection personal protection for him, which would be another strong turn on for him as well, and they would be no threat as they simply weren't capable of it.

[akbill]

That is dead on Point