Tim Turner indicted!

[Prof]

For some reason, I thought these idiots NEVER capitalized "united"????

See above, "the Republic for the United States of America" is used consistently.

[Famspear]

The "press release:"

....the unchartered Municipal Corporation unlawfully detained President James Timothy Turner. The unchartered Municipal Corporation (UNITED STATES) has taken a desperate action through their corporate policies which are clearly outside constitutional governance......

The re-inhabited government of the Republic for the United States of America was accomplished in law and documented with intent and determination to show the world that law is demanded by all peoples of all nations. The international community will condemn this act and reveal much about how the unchartered Municipal Corporation has enslaved, harmed, and stolen all people’s wealth and prosperity worldwide......

James Buchanan Geiger

Senate President pro tempore

The Republic for the United States of America

James Buchanan Geiger...... little Jimmy Geiger.....

Like much of the nonsense we see, this wackadoosterish twaddle reads (to me at least) as though it was written by a pre-adolescent -- someone roughly at the maturity level of L.B. Bork, or Weston White, or Patrick Michael Mooney, or "Harvester/Libre/Nationwide/johnthetaxist/johnnycash/whatever the heck his monikor is this week".

Come to think of it, maybe little Jimmy Geiger should call Weston White! Yeah, just bring in Weston's friends, the members of Weston's imaginary "Tyrannical Response Team," to save the day!

[grixit]

It's one thing to keep things non violent, but that's not the same as non active. Where are the protests? The solidarity marches? This movement seems to attract mainly people who post angry comments online, then feel as if they've joined the Minutemen.

[Doktor Avalanche]

At first glance I thought Tina Turner had been indicted.

[Cathulhu]

Hey, I like Tina! Proof that the abused wife can start over; I relate to that. Wish I had legs as fine as hers, but six knee operations have had their toll.

[David Merrill]

Let's have a closer look!

[wserra]

Turner's bond hearing is tomorrow.

In the interim, various mental midgets have been trying to file the usual nonsense as "next friend to defendant". As a result, the M-J ordered that "the Clerk of Court shall not accept any current or future documents submitted by non-parties in this matter".

But, Judge, that takes the fun out of it.

[David Merrill]

Turner's bond hearing is tomorrow.

In the interim, various mental midgets have been trying to file the usual nonsense as "next friend to defendant". As a result, the M-J ordered that "the Clerk of Court shall not accept any current or future documents submitted by non-parties in this matter".

But, Judge, that takes the fun out of it.

Too bad for Tim I am angry with him and am not abiding in Alabama - or at least am not inclined to buy a State of Alabama great seal.

No motion for leave to file an amicus curiae brief is necessary if the brief is presented on behalf of the United States by the Solicitor General; on behalf of any agency of the United States allowed by law to appear before this Court when submitted by the agency's authorized legal representative; on behalf of a State, Commonwealth, Territory, or Possession when submitted by its Attorney General; or on behalf of a city, county, town, or similar entity when submitted by its authorized law officer.

I however feel that everybody deserves a speedy trial and Tim's has been deferred without his consent because the FBI and CIA have been taking advantage of him as an intelligence mill, gathering the names of disgruntled Americans - what Wserra refers to as mental midgets. From the moment I revealed this intelligence mill to the Tenth Circuit justices, docketed 1/6/2011, that is about when Tim's indictment/trial clock should have been started. There was plenty of evidence and much of the exact same evidence ready and ripe at that time obviously.

It looks as though the CIA and FBI continued to convince Tim they were on his side until people completely quit signing on; until his lies about funding, military and foreign dignitary support became such obvious fabrications that nobody was contributing to the intelligence mill anymore. This effectively deferred Tim's prosecution so that his right to a speedy trial is being violated. There might be a witness or two who could testify to Tim's defense that are no longer available for summoning.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[GlimDropper]

There was a minor kerfuffle in the Republic this week. On a confrence call which I've been unable to locate, Chief Justice of the One Supreme Court of the new Republic Nathan Peachey voiced a need to "clean up" the republic and called for an election to replace President Turner.[Link]

Chief Justice Nathan Peachey will brief on the upcoming elections on November 6th for a new President to replace Mr. James Timothy Turner, Mr. Nathan Peachey tells State of Globe that he does not hide the fact that he is very sorry about what happened to Mr. Turner, however the Republic was never meant to be lawbreakers, not even the laws of an incorporated democracy like Washington DC. The New Republic according to Chief Justice Peachey is all about restoring the original rule of law, pursuant to the original constitution for the United States of America.

But Chief Justice Peachy misunderstands the laws governing the imaginary republic. On a Republic Round Table call a few days later it was revealed that God has not told President Turner to step down at the present time and until he does no elections will be required.

Oh, and on a separate call on the same night that Justice Peachy called for new elections, he told people that the Iraqi Dinar will not "RV," so his credibility is pretty much shot.

[wserra]

Too bad for Tim I am angry with him

Absolutely too bad. Otherwise David could pretend to file an amicus brief. See that page from a document in David's post? We've discussed it before. That's a page from the nonsensical "brief" he attempted to file with the Tenth Circuit in support of his buddy Ron Hoodenpyle's appeal. The Tenth Circuit's response: "Document entitled "Amicus Curiae" and USB "thumb" drive received from David Merrill but not filed". It then, of course, affirmed Hoodenpyle's conviction (filing false liens). Despite David's quote and his various claims to the contrary, it was of course not an amicus brief. It wasn't a brief at all. It was garbage thrown in the appellate trash.

I however feel that everybody deserves a speedy trial and Tim's has been deferred without his consent

Of course everyone has a right to a speedy trial. Once arrested, the govt must move expeditiously to bring a defendant to trial unless the defendant waives it, explicitly or implicitly (by doing something like failing to appear). However, the only right to a speedy arrest is the statute of limitations. Jimmy Hoffa tried to argue that the govt's actions in using an informant to follow him around and tape his conversations after it had probable cause to arrest him violated his rights to due process and a speedy trial. The Supreme Court disagreed. Hoffa v. United States, 385 U.S. 293 (1966).

[Kestrel]

That's a page from the nonsensical "brief" he attempted to file with the Tenth Circuit in support of his buddy Ron Hoodenpyle's appeal. The Tenth Circuit's response: "Document entitled "Amicus Curiae" and USB "thumb" drive received from David Merrill but not filed".

The last part of the last page reads:
Case #10-1457
Trail Court #09-CR-13 USDC Colorado

What in the world is a Trail Court? Is it left over from the days of Conestoga Wagons?

[notorial dissent]

Oh, and on a separate call on the same night that Justice Peachy called for new elections, he told people that the Iraqi Dinar will not "RV," so his credibility is pretty much shot.

Wow, treason and heresy all in one shot, way to go Peachy.

[LightinDarkness]

Hello everyone - I'm a long time lurker that decided to register. I found this site after posting about sovereigns on the JREF forum, and I must say if its possible for debunkers to have a fan club I'm in the fan club for wserra and Demo

Of all the sovereign citizen crazies RuSA and Tim Turner are probably most interesting to me because I've followed them from the get go when they made the news by sending their threatening letters to US governors a few years ago.

And while I can't prove it so I don't offer this as anything but merely my opinion, I think this group will turn violent eventually. I know that seems odd because Turner and the other fake government leaders have always stressed non-violence, but you cant keep telling people not to be violent while concurrently telling them about this giant legal conspiracy that is after them. Especially when your own fake government President gets arrested, which shouldn't be possible if any of their sovereign mythology worked - indeed, the government should be fleeing at first sign of their paper terrorism. Its just to much cognitive dissonance for a group of people who are already predisposed to hate the real government.

Does anyone happen to know if there has been any additional files released in Turners case? Latest I found was the original announcement and motion for detention.

[wserra]

Does anyone happen to know if there has been any additional files released in Turners case? Latest I found was the original announcement and motion for detention.

The only new item (a biggie, if not unexpected) is the decision on the govt's detention motion:

ORAL ORDER as to James Timothy Turner remanding defendant to the custody of the USMS pending trial. Signed by Honorable Judge Wallace Capel, Jr on 10/1/2012

Welcome to Q, LiD. Post enough, and I guarantee we'll put that acronym to good use in finding a title for you.

[Gregg]

I'm usually up for putting a lid to good use, no matter how much he posts.

[LightinDarkness]

LiD is what I'm called on JREF so it fits

I just got done listening to the weekly RuSA call and, as per usual, the sheer level of delusion floors me. I mean, I get why people join these groups on some level. Admitting that you owe your debts, or that the country while not perfect is the best we have, is difficult - it requires work on your part. Its much easier to believe there is a massive legal conspiracy and the government is fake and you can join the "real" government. Plus I imagine for the insane its quite a power rush - now you too can go from a lowly average citizen to being a Senator or Congressmen in the Fake Republic.

But what just amazes me is that no amount of reality seems to phase these guys. They have told all their members that by joining RuSA the "de facto" (real) government couldn't touch them in the "de jure" (fake) RuSA government. And then Tim Turner gets put on trial and we all know he will lose - and yet still this is not enough evidence that perhaps they bought into a mythology.

According to this week's propaganda call they really are delusional enough to put on a sovereign defense - which is only going to make things worse as it always does (I think Turner would still lose with a real lawyer, but maybe they would have mercy if he recanted on sentencing). Yet here they are on the conference call stating that (!) clearly the government is scared because the trial won't start until march and clearly the government is scared because (! again) they didnt release him on bail. The proof..."because its a FACT that you can't escape the de facto government so obviously by holding him they are scared of him." To top it all off they droned on for at least 30 minutes about how Tim Turner was the equivalent to King David and they made such a terrible mistake by letting him pray 24 hours a day because God will bring a "righteous judgement" upon them. I'm sorry, you can't keep telling your delusional members that this RuSA is all real and the real USA government is on the run while all this is going on. You can't expect people not to take up arms when they are this nuts and you one minute say your peaceful and then proclaim "righteous judgements" from God upon their heads.

It just really frustrates me. I struggle to understand how people can be this out of touch with reality. I mean, I know there is lots of crazy stuff in the tax protestor/conspiracy theory/sovereign citizen realm - but I do believe this tops them all. Its the equivalent of starting a Renaissance Fair and dressing up as the King and writing a document that you are now the King of America and then going around and telling the federal government you can't be touched and God will avenge you. There is 0% reality here. Not one ounce of reality in the ENTIRE RuSA group at this point.

When I was considering graduate school I really wanted to get a PhD in Religion, because I think understanding why people believe what they believe (regardless of its truth) gives you an essential insight into who they are. But I can't crack RuSA - its an enigma. If one person acted like this I would called them a paranoid schizophrenic who joined a cult (with Tim Turner being the charismatic leader). But all of the probably 500 or so members of RuSA can't all be paranoid schizophrenics. And yet there is no consistency in their mythology. Having a consistent mythology is key for this sort of thing - it may all be fake but it has to be internally consistent. But they do stuff like proclaim they are sovereign from government and then tell people its all still true when their President gets arrested - they just break their own mythology and make up something else.

I never did a PhD in religion but I did do an undergraduate degree in it along with my other majors...and while that qualifies me for absolutely nothing I do think I know enough to say all signs point RuSA transiting to a full fledged cult. It went from playing fake government with Turner as President to playing fake monarchy with Turner as King, while still retaining the language and trappings of a fake republic government.

[LightinDarkness]

Here is an example of what I mean about the just total delusion from the conference call. One of the call moderators related a story where he was "helping" (heh) his friend in traffic court this week. He stated that his friend did all the sovereign tactics as instructed - declined to contract, did the admiralty dance, etc. basically the full sovereign legal ritual (and thats what these people do essentially in court - legal rituals in gibberish). SURPRISE! Friend lost, state wins. Afterwards they talked to the officer who testified against the defendant outside of the court room and they asked him "Did you understand a thing that we said in there?" and the officer responded "No it all sounded like gibberish."

There was then much agreement on the call that clearly they only lost because the officer and the court did not understand how sovereign law clearly has power over petty US corporation law. Clearly, that was why it didn't work. No alternative was suggested.

Now to people who are not totally insane, this might suggest that perhaps the sovereign legal ritual did not work because it is in fact gibberish. That instead of coming up with a legitimate defense, they essentially showed up to court and spouted legal gibberish and since they had no actual defense were therefore found guilty. But these people are so disconnected from reality that this was not even considered.

[NYGman]

I just don't understand that even if you believe your are a soverign citizen, and not a US citizen, you are still phisically present in this country. Do not the laws of the US apply to non-citizans? It may not be governed by "their" government, but gosh darn it, their police and prisons are very real, as Tim is finding out now.

I just don't understand why citizenship has any effect on the laws of this country. They may not believe the laws are legit, but everyone that matters does (Courts, government, police, prisons, etc.)

I do agree with your opinion though, these sovereign types will end up getting violent, they will start to feel cornered, and think violence is the only way.

[Quixote]

I just don't understand that even if you believe your are a soverign citizen, and not a US citizen, you are still phisically present in this country. Do not the laws of the US apply to non-citizans? It may not be governed by "their" government, but gosh darn it, their police and prisons are very real, as Tim is finding out now.

I just don't understand why citizenship has any effect on the laws of this country. They may not believe the laws are legit, but everyone that matters does (Courts, government, police, prisons, etc.)

I do agree with your opinion though, these sovereign types will end up getting violent, they will start to feel cornered, and think violence is the only way.

The sov'runs believe that the physical United States consists of Washington, DC, military bases and US territories. So US law does not apply outside those areas, except for US citizens. It isn't clear to me how that exempts sov'runs from state laws, such as the requirement to have a driver's license, but ...

[Pottapaug1938]

I just don't understand that even if you believe your are a soverign citizen, and not a US citizen, you are still phisically present in this country. Do not the laws of the US apply to non-citizans? It may not be governed by "their" government, but gosh darn it, their police and prisons are very real, as Tim is finding out now.

I just don't understand why citizenship has any effect on the laws of this country. They may not believe the laws are legit, but everyone that matters does (Courts, government, police, prisons, etc.)

I do agree with your opinion though, these sovereign types will end up getting violent, they will start to feel cornered, and think violence is the only way.

The sov'runs believe that the physical United States consists of Washington, DC, military bases and US territories. So US law does not apply outside those areas, except for US citizens. It isn't clear to me how that exempts sov'runs from state laws, such as the requirement to have a driver's license, but ...

Well, if you follow their illogic, sovrun ideology is probably federal in nature: a sovrun is supreme over any de facto US or state gummint. The Magna Carta says so, I'm sure....