National Liberty Alliance - Citizen Grand Juries

[notorial dissent]

I don't think I would want my name on any list associated with these folks. I suspect it would come back to bite me at some point.

Understatement of the finest kind!!!! And probably all too true.

You could, of course, always just make up a name, and then pretend you've been sending out all their junk and that you have been roundly ignored by the common law ignorant court flunkies. If they're dumb enough to get hooked up in this to begin with and believe, I would say their fact discriminators have long been off line, so what's one more fantasy more or less?

[Lambkin]

Looked up NLA's website:
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/

Intense SovCit stuff, with a liberal dose of religious conservatism.
I wonder .... should I sign up with them? It seems that will assure that I get assigned to one of their grand juries. So far, I have had to rely on secondhand descriptions of the zealots in action, that would be a definite change!

Yes you should definitely sign up. But use a false name. Bernard Goetz. Surely they cannot ask for state-issued ID.

[LightinDarkness]

I missed this, the "Grand Jury of New York" issued a gibberish writ of mandamus on April 10:
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... ndamus.pdf

Now, I don't expect a fake grand jury to send the correct writs, because they are operating from made up law to begin with. But a writ of mandamus is something I remember from my law school elective classes since its very relevant to my field.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this writ can only be issued by a judge to compel a government official to act upon one of his or her ministerial duties. A ministerial duty being something that a government official must as a matter of law do anyways, but which he/she was refusing to do for some reason before the writ was issued. That is different from a discretionary duty, which is an action performed by a government official which they must choose to do and is not commanded by existing law.

That was the whole Marbury v Madison thing - Marbury had been appointed as a justice of the peace by John Adams (discretionary duty) but Madison was refusing to deliver his commission which had been created already (ministerial duty). They didn't end up issuing the writ because they held Marbury was barred from bringing the claim to begin with (no jurisdiction), but the point was had the claim been eligible a writ would have been issued I think.

Given all that, (surprise!) the gibberish writ of mandamus makes no sense. Even if the "grand jury" was a real grand jury they couldn't issue such an order, and even if they could all the insane stuff they are asking for is not a ministerial duty of the court system. The sov'runs here are mad because when they last sent gibberish paperwork to a new york court the clerk removed it from the file and mailed it back to them. You can't compel the clerk to insert something in a court record which is gibberish.

I know, I know, its all made up stuff anyways...but if your going to give yourself special uber-grand jury powers, at least use writs that make sense...How EXACTLY are they getting a court hearing about this stuff anyways?

[notorial dissent]

Grand Juries have never had the power or function of issuing writs, or anything else for that matter that intrudes in to the court's authority. This is as you say the veriest of nonsense.

I think they have strayed in to the realm where they need to have a meeting with the country sheriff as he brings them in to have a real one on one with a real court.

These people are flat out loons.

[grixit]

Yeah, but the mask and decoder ring are really cool.

[Lambkin]

Wackadoodle-doo! Holy crap, what a collection of angry idiots. It's sad to contemplate the guaranteed failure that lies ahead of them. What a waste of time and energy.

[LPC]

I missed this, the "Grand Jury of New York" issued a gibberish writ of mandamus on April 10:
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... ndamus.pdf

The named defendants are, I assume, the clerks who rejected the "Grand Jury of New York"'s previous gibberish.

The "writ" completely wrong because, as already noted, a writ of mandamus is used to order an official to perform an act which the official has wrongfully refused to perform. (And it requires a judge sitting in a court of equity, which is a civil court and not a criminal court.) So a writ of mandamus *could* be used (in theory) to order a clerk to accept a document for filing which the clerk has wrongfully refused to accept.

But that's not what these whackadoodles are trying to do. They haven't ordered the clerks to accept the filings, but are instead accusing them of criminal conduct and ordering them to "show cause by what authority they acted upon and why a true bill should not be presented and warrants for their immediate arrest should not be executed." So it's more like an criminal indictment than a civil writ.

But it doesn't read like an indictment either, because it orders the defendants to show cause why they should *not* be indicted. Which is backwards, because the burden of proof is on the prosecution and not the defendants. And it's procedurally whacked up because grand juries either indict or they don't indict, but they don't threaten people with indictment if they don't do what the grand jury wants.

So the whole thing is FUBAR (fouled up beyond all recognition).

[notorial dissent]

Which should come as a surprise to no one, since these idjits haven't a clue about what they are doing, or trying to do. They are just angry, jumped up little sovruns who are looking to see how much trouble they can get themselves in to, and ultimately they will. About the time they really issue arrest warrants for some court clerk and the judge gets ticked off and sends the county sheriff out with real warrants for them I don't know if NY has a counterfeit of legal process statutes, but I do bet they have ones for interfering with court operations and threatening court personnel that can be brought to bear.

[grixit]

Worse, the whole story is going to show up on a procedural drama, where they will be portrayed in a mercilessly clear light, because it will not be possible for the writers to exaggerate.

[davids]

Why is it that sov citizen types, who barely understand English, know more obscure latin phrasecrapology than anyone who has actually been to law school? Obstaa principiis? What the heck? Aren't these the same types who show up in Court demanding that "no legalese" be spoken since their poor little edumcayshun-deprived pro se litigant minds cannot possibly comprehend it all?

[Pottapaug1938]

Why is it that sov citizen types, who barely understand English, know more obscure latin phrasecrapology than anyone who has actually been to law school? Obstaa principiis? What the heck? Aren't these the same types who show up in Court demanding that "no legalese" be spoken since their poor little edumcayshun-deprived pro se litigant minds cannot possibly comprehend it all?

It's because they are unable to indulge in proper legal scholarship; so they turn to Black's Law Dictionary, with its endless pages of outdated legal phrases, or to Bouvier's 1856 tome. Besides, Latin sounds so much more "legal" -- indeed, I've seen more than one sovrun assert that you HAVE to use the Latin phrase, not its English translation, or else it isn't really "legal".

[LightinDarkness]

This just keeps getting better, I haven't had this much entertainment since the hey day of RuSA. The people involved in these grand juries are just at a level of insanity that you really have to wonder at them.

It turns out the big court date for the New York "Common Law Grand Jury" on Thursday was a no go. Apparently they filed a bunch of gibberish paperwork commanding the court to give them access to the court house/offices/place the sheriff under their command, and the clerk sent it back. They then filed a gibberish writ of mandamus, which the court found bizarre.

In its very brief decision, which has been hilariously stamped "rescinded" by the Grand Jury crazies and sent back to the court, Judge Raymond Elliott found (1) there was no cause of action and (2) there is no such thing as a common law grand jury. Short and sweet, read it here:
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... cinded.pdf

So what was the response of our grand jury crazies? Well, file more gibberish paperwork of course! If it didn't work last time SURELY if we make up some more fancy sounding writs it will work this time, right guys? So now we have a "writ of error" and "notice of fraud upon the court":
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... cinded.pdf
http://www.nationallibertyalliance.org/ ... 0Court.pdf

Of course even a real grand jury can't issue a writ of error, and certainly a fake one cannot do so, but of note the fruitcakes have in their gibberish documents now impeached the judge, found the judge in contempt of court ( ), and fined him 100 silver dollars. I am sure the judge will be stepping down and bringing them those silver dollars any day now!

[JamesVincent]

... writ of mandamus....

Everytime I see this in relation to sov's the little voice in my head that actually reads everything pronounces it man-dumb-ass, can't help it.....

[Fmotlgroupie]

A small point: the document above is stamped "resinded" not "rescinded". They went to the trouble of going out and bought themselves a custom stamp without having enough of a clue to spell check it.

[notorial dissent]

I have a feeling that what they may be getting shortly is a special invitation from the judge delivered by the sheriff to show them to their deluxe suits at the county hoosegow before they are brought up on contempt charges at the very least. Most judges have very little sense of humor about this sort of thing, and I think it is about time that these yahoos find out what real court process looks like.

[Kestrel]

A small point: the document above is stamped "resinded" not "rescinded". They went to the trouble of going out and bought themselves a custom stamp without having enough of a clue to spell check it.

So instead of cancelling anything, they sinned again. Twice.

[ArthurWankspittle]

A small point: the document above is stamped "resinded" not "rescinded". They went to the trouble of going out and bought themselves a custom stamp without having enough of a clue to spell check it.

They only had enough money for 8 characters not 9, obviously.

[LightinDarkness]

Updated from the National Liberty Fruitcake Alliance! When we last tuned in, our valiant white knights against the evil Powers That Be has filed numerous (hysterically stupid) writs and "rescinded" the NY judge's order stating there is no such thing as common law grand juries and thus dismissing their case. Not at all phased by this, our valiant heroes yet AGAIN filed more random writs and this time around the clerk sent them back within days.

Not phased by that, next our heroes tried to order the sheriff to serve the judge with the gibberish paperwork, which the sheriff refused, and now they are absolutely enraged. I mean, literally, frothing at the mouth angry at this one - insisting the sheriff has a "duty" to serve papers (only valid papers of course, the problem is gibberish sov'run papers aren't valid!).

The next step? The NLA leader guy John is going to "visit" the sheriff in question and tell him his actions are illegal, and if he doesn't serve the papers he will be next. This is going to end in someone's arrest or a large fine though, I am pretty sure harassing judges and sheriffs like this is illegal.

They are convinced all these judges and sheriffs are going to jail for 20 years

[notorial dissent]

I would suspect that the visit to the sheriff won't go well, or at all as planned. I would expect that the official patience is fast eroding and that more tangible displeasure should shortly be coming.

Query, does NY have a counterfeit of judicial process statute??

[Famspear]

... writ of mandamus....

Everytime I see this in relation to sov's the little voice in my head that actually reads everything pronounces it man-dumb-ass, can't help it.....

This is what you get for participating in the Quatloos forum for so long.....