Lets start from the beginning

[Patriotdiscussions]

In an effort to make sure beliefs do not interfer with my information intake, I suggest we start from the beginning and see where our paths diverge.

In that light, what two ways can men govern other men?

[wserra]

Genesis 1:1, except that this thread is not going to turn into the Bible. It's a bad start that PD follows his usual pattern of refusing to state a position.

In fact, depending on the next few posts, it may not last as long as it would take me to become an ordained Pastafarian minister.

[Patriotdiscussions]

Not sure what position I should take while learning, I'm thinking that is called bias and keeps us from learning.

Tell you what, I will start off.

Man can govern other men. thru 1. Force or 2. Consent

Is there another way to govern men?

If you agree with the two ways, what way do we govern here in America?

[littleFred]

We Brits tried to govern you guys by force, a long time ago.

You objected, and overcame our rule, by force.

Since then, you've been governing yourselves. If you don't like it, have another revolution. I suspect you won't.

[Patriotdiscussions]

We Brits tried to govern you guys by force, a long time ago.

You objected, and overcame our rule, by force.

Since then, you've been governing yourselves. If you don't like it, have another revolution. I suspect you won't.

Is it really that hard a question to answer?

Do we govern by consent or force in America?

[Patriotdiscussions]

We Brits tried to govern you guys by force, a long time ago.

You objected, and overcame our rule, by force.

Since then, you've been governing yourselves. If you don't like it, have another revolution. I suspect you won't.

In reality you Brits or serfs I should say governed no one, the king on the other hand governed first by consent and then tried by force.

[arayder]

PD, I think you should go ahead and tell us what you think, rather than pretending to be a student in learning mode.

After all on graigslist you are offering classes during which promise to show prospective students "how the government works" and how they can "beat the banks":

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Classes on law,economics and psychology (central florida)

Patriot discussions holds meetings or one on ones with people looking to understand how the government can do the things it does. want to know more about WHY you have to use obamacare? Having trouble with your mortgage or are you in foreclosure? I can help you beat the banks friends. All my services are donation only (except for mortgage/foreclosure help) and are based on what you think my information is worth. Truly a free market type business. Remember that if we are getting bad information from the government, then our life choices will be based on that bad info, protect your family, know what's going on.

source: http://orlando.craigslist.org/cls/4531347794.html

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PD, as an aside I have to say that in light of your scholarly fails on this forum I question the wisdom of you offering advice, some of which comes close to paid legal advice.

[Pottapaug1938]

I would echo arayder's comment, while noting that you ducked a similar question from me at least three, and probably four, times on a different thread. Until you answer those questions, your posts aren't worth a response.

[wserra]

Someone qualified to offer "classes on law, economics and psychology" should understand the phrase "false dichotomy".

Which is probably why you don't.

[Judge Roy Bean]

We Brits tried to govern you guys by force, a long time ago.

You objected, and overcame our rule, by force.

Since then, you've been governing yourselves. If you don't like it, have another revolution. I suspect you won't.

Is it really that hard a question to answer?

Do we govern by consent or force in America?

Both. Some consent, others require force.

[JamesVincent]

Genesis 1:1, except that this thread is not going to turn into the Bible. It's a bad start that PD follows his usual pattern of refusing to state a position.

In fact, depending on the next few posts, it may not last as long as it would take me to become an ordained Pastafarian minister.

Kudos for beating me to it.

What type of government do we have? If you can answer that question honestly then the question you asked is answered.

[Famspear]

Ah, PD has created another thread. He entitles this one: "Lets [sic] start from the beginning".

In an effort to make sure beliefs do not interfer [sic] with my information intake, I suggest we start from the beginning and see where our paths diverge.

In that light, what two ways can men govern other men?

Our paths diverge over the concept of where "the beginning" is located.

On September 7, 2014 "Patriotdiscussions" started a thread here -- entitled "Let me start my questions from the beginning" -- with these questions:

Does being born automatically submit you to the social contract?

Does not every male citizen have to sign up for selective service?

Does the constitution not outlaw involuntary servitude?

Would being born, forced into the social contract and thus selective service be voluntary servitude?

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10197&p=175743#p175743

Now, there is a common theme here. The theme is PD's problem coping with Authority and Authority Figures and with being forced to do various things.

The "beginning" of all this is better understood by trying to answer the question: "Exactly which relationship that was important to 'Patriotdiscussions' in his early childhood is he still trying to resolve?". But, that's a question that (probably) only "Patriotdiscussions" can answer. His ability to answer that question correctly would be an indicator of how far along in his mental journey he has come.

I posit that "PD" is still trying to cope with being forced to do various things when he was a tyke. The source of the problem is some unknown aspect of PD's relationship with someone (very probably Mommie or Daddy) back when PD was just a "leetle feller."

Something in that early childhood relationship is the beginning.

[Famspear]

Look at the language he uses:

.....govern.....

.....submit.....

.....have to.....

.....involuntary.....

...,.forced into.....

.....voluntary.....

.....servitude.....

[Famspear]

....Tell you what, I will start off.

Man can govern other men. thru 1. Force or 2. Consent....

The rule of course, PD, is that you have to do it -- because your Mommie says so.

[Famspear]

Along this line:

The tax protester's typical train of thought:

''1. They are making me do it.''

''2. I don't want to do it.''

''3. I don't understand whey they are making me do it.''

''4. This is a free country, so I shouldn't have to do it.''

''5. If they are still trying to make me do it, I have to find some explanation as to why they are doing all this to me.''

''6. They use fancy lawyer-talk to make me do it.''

''7. I need to find some fancy lawyer-talk of my own to make them stop.''

--by '''Pottapaug1938''', June 24, 2011, at:

viewtopic.php?f=8&p=122584&sid=4f63d0ff ... 4d#p122584

[Famspear]

With respect to PD's cowardice -- evidenced in thread after thread in the form of his aversion to stating his position -- the down side for him is that we get to state his positions for him.

That's a rule I just made up.

I forced the rule upon him.

And, I get to make the rules. Because I'm the Famspear.

[arayder]

I posit that "PD" is still trying to cope with being forced to do various things when he was a tyke. The source of the problem is some unknown aspect of PD's relationship with someone (very probably Mommie or Daddy) back when PD was just a "leetle feller."

Something in that early childhood relationship is the beginning.

I think you are on the right track, Farmspear.

There are those who love to rewrite American history to make it seem that the Founding Fathers and the Framers of the Constitution opted for a government free of coercion. This exercise in history revision ignores the well documented employment of force by the Founders to enforce the law, the most notable case being Washington's use of the federal militia to suppress the Whiskey Rebellion.

I theorize that many of this "the Framers were coercion free" crowd are substituting their mythic, but inaccurate, nation of American history, law and custom for the mommies and daddies who used a belt to get them to clean up their rooms.

[LPC]

Do we govern by consent or force in America?

Both.

By the consent of the majority, and by force against the law-breaking minority.

Two other options:

1. By the consent of the minority, and by force against the majority; or

2. No government at all.

If you could fabricate a fourth option, you might or might not explain it, but since you lack both the imagination to fabricate such a fourth option and the intelligence to understand the truth of what I've written, I'm sure that what will follow next is your usual evasive and incoherent blather.

[Patriotdiscussions]

So we govern by consent then, I think Jefferson said it best. Governing by force would be North Korea type government.

Is anyone seriously suggesting we govern by force?

Btw in both types you have law breakers, that in no way means we govern by force.

[Patriotdiscussions]

PD, I think you should go ahead and tell us what you think, rather than pretending to be a student in learning mode.

After all on graigslist you are offering classes during which promise to show prospective students "how the government works" and how they can "beat the banks":

-----------------------
Classes on law,economics and psychology (central florida)

Patriot discussions holds meetings or one on ones with people looking to understand how the government can do the things it does. want to know more about WHY you have to use obamacare? Having trouble with your mortgage or are you in foreclosure? I can help you beat the banks friends. All my services are donation only (except for mortgage/foreclosure help) and are based on what you think my information is worth. Truly a free market type business. Remember that if we are getting bad information from the government, then our life choices will be based on that bad info, protect your family, know what's going on.

source: http://orlando.craigslist.org/cls/4531347794.html

----------------------

PD, as an aside I have to say that in light of your scholarly fails on this forum I question the wisdom of you offering advice, some of which comes close to paid legal advice.

Thanks for your concern friend, sadly the florida bar has a very informative post on what is paid legal advice and what is legal information.