Does anyone know

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Patriotdiscussions
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Does anyone know

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

What contract they are talking about in this case? I have a hard time reading law so any help would be great.


Pg 576 FEDERAL REPORTER, vol 56.
CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS v. REUM.
(Circuit Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit. May 29, 1893.)
Before this plaintiff could become a naturalized citizen, the contract of allegiance and protection that the relation of a citizen to his nation implies must be made between him and the United States. The United States have prescribed the conditions under which such an alien may make this contract, the place where, and the manner in which, it shall be made, and have declared that it can be made on those conditions, and in that manner, and not otherwise. Rev. St. § 2165. The conditions are that he shall declare on oath, that he will support the Constitution; that he does renounce all allegiance to every foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, and particularly to that one of which he was a subject; that it shall be made to appear to the court that he has resided in the United States five years, and in the state where the court is held one year; that he has behaved as a man of good moral character during all of this time, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the same. The place where these conditions must be complied with is in one of the courts of record named in the acts of Congress, and the method by which the contract is to be made is by plenary proof to that court of a compliance with these conditions, which must be evidenced by its judgment. The plaintiff has complied with none of these terms. He has not even applied to any court to be admitted to citizenship. He has not consented to become a citizen of the United States on the terms they offer to him, or on any terms, but he still insists he is not a citizen, and that he is still a subject of the king of Saxony. On the other hand, the United States have not consented to accept the plaintiff as a citizen, on any terms, much less to waive all the essential conditions without a compliance with which Congress has declared an alien cannot be naturalized. The minds of both parties must meet to make a contract, and, where neither party consents, there can surely be no agreement.
davids
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by davids »

Excellent point. You do have a hard time reading law. They are talking about the contact they are talking about.
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

Which is a contract for what exactly?
Jeffrey
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Jeffrey »

the contract of allegiance and protection that the relation of a citizen to his nation implies
the contract ... that the relation ... implies
Can you not read?
Patriotdiscussions
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

What are the terms of this contract and where can I find more info on it?
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Patriotdiscussions »

Jeffrey wrote:
the contract of allegiance and protection that the relation of a citizen to his nation implies
the contract ... that the relation ... implies
Can you not read?
What contract exactly is a citizen under to his government?
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Jeffrey »

There's no contract, that's why the quote you referred to says implies.

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case/re ... 1.0576.pdf

And do yourself a favor and read the whole thing and not the excerpt. The case you're quoting is about a guy who immigrated to the United States from Saxony (before it joined Germany in 1871), pledged allegiance to the United States and argued that therefore he was a citizen. The judges decided that that wasn't sufficient for him to become a citizen and that he had to fulfill all the requirements necessary for naturalization before he becomes a citizen.
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by LPC »

Patriotdiscussions wrote:What contract they are talking about in this case?
It's all about zip codes.
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by fortinbras »

This is actually a fairly simple case. The federal govt has its laws that specify the steps that an immigrant must take to apply for and obtain US citizenship. Reum was German, but had lived in Minnesota for many years and had even, under that state's generous laws, been allowed to vote in elections. But he had not completed the process set forth in federal law to become a naturalized citizen. Part of this process involved filing various papers by which he pledged his loyalty and allegiance to the US, and renounced any previous nationality or loyalty to another country; this process the court refers to as "the contract of allegiance". Actually "contract" might not be the precise term because there is no negotiation involved, either the applicant does it or else his application isn't moving forward.

As I said, Reum had been living, even voting, in Minn. for many years, but he had not yet followed through with the naturalization process spelled out in federal law, and the court held that he was, therefore, not yet a US citizen. A state govt could not make him a US citizen, only the terms of federal law could do that. Minnesota might count him as a state citizen and let him vote in state elections, but he was not yet a US citizen because the only laws that could accomplish that were federal laws. Therefore, if he was involved in a court case, he would have to be regarded as a non-citizen of the US.

The case is cited as [City of] Minneapolis v. Reum (8th Cir. 1893) 56 Fed 576. There were also parallel printings in CCA and US App but you cannot find those in law libraries nowadays.
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case/re ... 1.0576.pdf
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Re: Does anyone know

Post by Gregg »

Patriotdiscussions wrote:What are the terms of this contract and where can I find more info on it?

It has since been supplanted by the Oath of Allegiance, for more information go here http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/file ... M-1051.pdf.

But I think where you want to lead the discussion is how YOU became a US Citizen if you never consented to or entered into a similar contract.

The answer is, you were born here, you have no other citizenship to renounce and if you want to NOT be a US Citizen, you are free to go outside of the United States, go to a US Consulate and renounce your US Citizenship. To do so, you have to be outside of the USA (and you pretty much can count on never being allowed to return here) pay your taxes before you go and oh, have a destination in mind because your US Passport is taken from you or if you don't produce it its invalidated and your stateless ass is going to need to find a place to settle down. Might I suggest Somalia, where the central national government will not likely bother you much (being more theoretical than actual functioning) and the income tax is either not present or not enforced (see above about non functioning government).
Not my area of expertise but I'm guessing a brand new Ex-American setting up shop in Mogadishu's stylish suburbs will last on average about 30 minutes after sunset on the first night. You won't be missed. Feel free to call the US Embassy for help if you need it though, they'll get one helluva laugh out of that.

So there, your question is answered, your "real" question is also addressed and you've been sufficiently mocked for general stupidity once again. The purpose of the thread is therefore fulfilled, and to keep you from moving it all over your scattered mind I'm going to lock it.
Thanks for playing!

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