Two of these bright people threatened the judge in their federal tax case. I am sure that will help them a lot.
![bang head :brickwall:](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif)
Moderators: Prof, Judge Roy Bean
Only a sovrun could claim death threats as being a peace initiative.In a lengthy courtroom speech last year, Cox said he does not intend to cooperate with the court system, but he sees himself as a peacemaker between his supporters and the government.
The FBI describes the Sovereign Citizen Movement as a domestic terrorism group.
If you lose your case at the Denny's, can you appeal to the IHOP restaurant?Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.
What a piker - he isn't even a Republic Ranger.He is a leader of the Alaska Peacemakers Militia and the Second Amendment Task Force
Well, I'm afraid that because the United States never ratified the Rome Statute the International House of Pancakes might lack jurisdiction in this case. Do we have an extradition treaty with Tim Horton's?The Observer wrote:
If you lose your case at the Denny's, can you appeal to the IHOP restaurant?
Please tell me he's not gonna plead double jepardy because he was aquitted of all charges at Denny's.Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.
He was convicted. His punishment was he had to pay for dinner.Gregg wrote:Please tell me he's not gonna plead double jepardy because he was aquitted of all charges at Denny's.Members of the movement do not believe U.S. laws apply to them and sometimes make their own license plates or create their own legal trials, according to the FBI. A group of Fairbanks residents recently conducted their own trial of Cox at Denny’s Restaurant.
ashlynne39 wrote:
He looks like a little boy.
I got 5 pages in, you owe me something for the wasted time. From what I got in those first five pages, they are arguing, among other things, that The United States of America is an anonymous party because they don't know who the United States of America is, that courts have defined the word "The United States of America" at least three different ways, and they can't tell which one they mean. Furthermore, they spend several pages showing where courts have tossed decisions because one party was listed as "Doe" and was for some reason or another not entitled to the privacy of doing so.wserra wrote:In the underlying tax lien foreclosure case, the Vernons had counterclaimed some nonsense against the govt. The govt moved to dismiss the counterclaim. Here is the Vernons' response. It's 51 pages of gibberish - but that's not the point. Note how similar it is to the stuff we discuss here every day.
There may be a lot of dangerous wackos around.
Could this be where Marc Stevens was trying to go with his "Who is the US?" question during his brief, unlamented sojourn here?they are arguing, among other things, that The United States of America is an anonymous party because they don't know who the United States of America is
My money would be on Michael Anderson. I haven't found a copy of his indictment but he is being charged separately though the link Demosthenes posted described the charges he's facing as being similar. In the Cox et. al. indictment Anderson is mentioned as being the guy in charge of surveillance and who made a list of the home addresses for people on the target list and with acquiring photographs of the targets etc. The indictment mentions Cox telling militia members to contact Anderson to get a copy of the list but several times Anderson refuses. He's quoted as telling a militia member that he's "not sure what sort of mess Cox is trying to get me into." Later Lonnie Vernon was quoted as telling Anderson that "you can go your own way but you have to give up the list."CaptainKickback wrote:Any bets on who rolls over first?
The State indictment makes mention of eight grenades, four of which were described by Cox as "the real deal" as in military issue while four were "grenade hulls filled with black powder and capped." What I'm wondering is if the four grenades the federal indictment described as "inert" were the ones Cox believed were the "real deal" or if they were the empty hulls they filled with their own explosive.j. On March 10, 2011, COX and BARNEY met with the person with whom
they had placed their order for a pistol equipped with a silencer and grenades so that they
could purchase these items. COX and BARNEY each received a pistol with a silencer.
They also received four hand grenades, not knowing that the grenades were inert.
BARNEY carried $6,000 in cash on his person for the purpose of purchasing additional
guns and destructive devices.
And in today's Anchorage Press we find this article:To all,
Did a recon of DZ today.
Bill was last seen Last Monday, he met with his attorney at the store and signed over ownership of the store and all his assets to another person.
He has not been heard from since. I assume he bugged out to a safer climate due to the number of threats he has received.He had to have received a credible threat to just vanish.
I hope he is doing ok.
Spenard being a neighborhood of Anchorage. The article bares reading, there is some background info there but more to point:Missing in action
Cops raid a Fairbanks militia and Spenard shop owner goes missing
The same day Cox was ducking authorities and preparing for armed conflict outside of Fairbanks, a warning about him was posted up on the online forums of Alaska Citizen's Militia. "I have not spoken to Cox since this whole thing happened, but I do know that his inability to stop saying stupid shit will contribute greatly to the mess this has become..." a poster named "Bill" writes to two Cox defenders who post under the names Ray and John.
Bill is William F. Fulton, also known as "DropZone Bill," the man who founded a military surplus supplier in Spenard called DropZone and who was briefly famous for providing security for the U.S. Senate campaign of Joe Miller. (His guards once handcuffed journalist Tony Hopfinger, the editor of Alaska Dispatch who doggedly pursued answers from Miller about his previous career as a government attorney in Fairbanks.) DropZone Bill has since disappeared and so have his postings at the militia forum.
None of the documents filed in federal or state courts mention Fulton's full name, but the state's felony complaint against Cox and five of his Peacemaker comrades allege they were negotiating the purchase of weapons from a dealer named "Bill" based in Anchorage. Five days after the Fairbanks-based Peacemakers were arrested, Fulton disappeared. His former employee, who gave only the surname "Giles" when interviewed, said he now is the owner of DropZone, and has tried everything he can think of to find his friend.
Interesting to note that if the indictments are correct, Bill opens this post with a lie about not having spoken with Cox recently.Ray and John
Not everything is always as black and white as we would like it to be. I have not spoken to Cox since this whole thing happened, but I do know that his inability to stop saying stupid shit will contribute greatly to the mess this has become (telling the troopers you've got more guns, and men than they do and you can have them all dead in one night)(telling the judge better to meet in the courthouse during the day than there house at night). I am not condemning him here I am just shinning a light on why I may be reluctant to jump in when somebody has purposefully stirred the bee hive. Schaffer has placed himself in a very dangerous and potential violent position not because of his failure to appear but because he has directly/ and indirectly threatened the safety of other human beings add on top of that his standing in the militia and his refusal to submit to the court and you have the trifecta of circumstances that make his violent demise that much more plausible.
I like Schaffer, I believe in much of what he stands for ( not all but a lot). I will support him to a point, but I will not leave my family fatherless because he likes to poke rattlesnakes. Most of you are unaware that this almost happened last summer too and was defused by quite a few of us. The road that this could lead one down is not the road of a reactive Militia, but that of a proactive one ......................That is a huge leap to take. The moral, legal and personal repercussions of becoming an armed proactive group are not to be taken lightly. We are not talking about going to see a judge here or paying a fine. We are talking about real death, and real bloodshed is this the cause you are willing to die for is this the person you are willing to fallow through the gates of oblivion? Were not talking about putting on some camouflage and going out in the woods to play war with your buddies here or debating the ins and outs of one constitutional view vs another. The corner that Schaffer has backed himself into here is of his own making mostly due to some very stupid self-important very public threats against people, when they come they will come heavy believe you me and if him or any of his guys tries anything they will all die.
Stand with him if you wish but as of yet I haven't seen any of you stand with em guys packing your crap and heading up there to do it. So sit on your computers ramble about how you stand with him, support him, believe in him all you want but at this point your all full of shit.................( I will retract that when either Ray or John give me a call from Fairbanks)........You guys want to go Rambo then fine do it but don't sit here and play the holier than though card Ray while your still sitting behind your computer instead of behind a scope.
I for one will not be tossing my life away because Schaffer cant keep his mouth shut. I will be ready if an unprovoked attack comes at any one of you but Schaffer purposefully messed with the Bull (as my dad use to say) and is probably going to end up with the horns, pretty much due to his own stupidity.
Bill