Suprised we haven't seen this before

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Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by LPC »

From a website I was just looking at:
The United States Supreme Court in a 1941 case, District of Columbia v Murphy, 314 U.S. 441 (1941), restated the comments of Senator Overton, Chairman of the Senate conferees, “Mr. President, I now call your attention to the fact that the individual income tax is imposed only on those domiciled in the District of Columbia….”
It's a great quote, and I'm surprised we haven't seen it before.

Of course, the income tax that the Senator is talking about is not the income tax imposed by the Internal Revenue Code, but the income tax imposed under the "District of Columbia Income Tax Act" which is (as the name suggests) limited to individuals domiciled in the District of Columbia.

But it's still a great quote, and I'm sure we'll see it again.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Unidyne »

More than likely this will be taken out of context as "proof" of the supposed unconstitutionalilty and/or illegality of the Federal Income Tax.

Personally, I'm surprised Irwin Shiff didn't trot this out during his last trial. :lol:
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

Unidyne wrote:More than likely this will be taken out of context as "proof" of the supposed unconstitutionalilty and/or illegality of the Federal Income Tax.

Personally, I'm surprised Irwin Shiff didn't trot this out during his last trial. :lol:
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Noah »

LPC wrote:From a website I was just looking at:
The United States Supreme Court in a 1941 case, District of Columbia v Murphy, 314 U.S. 441 (1941), restated the comments of Senator Overton, Chairman of the Senate conferees, “Mr. President, I now call your attention to the fact that the individual income tax is imposed only on those domiciled in the District of Columbia….”
It's a great quote, and I'm surprised we haven't seen it before.

Of course, the income tax that the Senator is talking about is not the income tax imposed by the Internal Revenue Code, but the income tax imposed under the "District of Columbia Income Tax Act" which is (as the name suggests) limited to individuals domiciled in the District of Columbia.

But it's still a great quote, and I'm sure we'll see it again.
In 1941 District of Columbia had both a D C income tax and the Internal Revenue Code income tax like some States today have both a State income tax and the tax imposed by the Internal Revenue Code ?
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by The Operative »

Noah wrote:In 1941 District of Columbia had both a D C income tax and the Internal Revenue Code income tax like some States today have both a State income tax and the tax imposed by the Internal Revenue Code ?
Yes. See District of Columbia Revenue Act of 1939 (Pub. L. 76-225, 53 Stat. 1085) which was amended in 1940.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by fortinbras »

The decision is District of Columbia v. Murphy (Dec. 15, 1941) 314 U.S. 441, 62 S.Ct. 303, 86 L.Ed. 329.

It has already been quoted out of context as if it applied to the federal income tax:

http://lexlori.wordpress.com/2010/03/30 ... sumptions/

and several similar sites, all of them apparently within the past year.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Cathulhu »

I'm pretty sure I've seen it quoted (out of context, duh) previously, but can't recall the case. Betcha IRS customer service people in DC have a passing familiarity with it.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by LPC »

fortinbras wrote:It has already been quoted out of context as if it applied to the federal income tax:

http://lexlori.wordpress.com/2010/03/30 ... sumptions/

and several similar sites, all of them apparently within the past year.
The site above is where I got it from.

The author, Larry Bradshaw, is currently appealing to the 11th Circuit an adverse decision from the tax court, and the order and decision make interesting reading. An excerpt:
Instead of substantiating deductions or otherwise showing
any error in the statutory notice, petitioner embarked on a
course of frivolous motions and arguments continuing the
contentions set out in the petition . He pursued discovery based
on his frivolous contentions and attacked those who refused to
play his semantic games . He served subpoenas on Federal
employees who had no relevant factual information with respect to
the issues before the Court . His pretrial memorandum failed to
identify any factual disputes with respect to his income o r
deductions and merely repeated his frivolous claims and his
vitriolic attacks on respondent's employees and agents .
When the case was called for trial, petitioner failed to identify
any nonfrivolous issue or to present evidence .

Petitioner has concocted multiple theories, based in part on
the Internal Revenue Manual, to support his premise that the
determination of tax liability on his earnings has not been and
cannot be accomplished . In other words, he would draw a
"conjurer's circle" around his tax liability . See United States
v . Sullivan , 274 U .S . 259, 264 (1927) . The Internal Revenue
Manual, however, does not have the force of law and is not
binding against respondent in litigation ; it does not confer any
rights on the taxpayer . See, e .g ., Fargo v . Commissioner , 447
F .3d 706, 713 (9th Cir . 2006), . affg . T .C . Memo . 2004-13 ; Carlson
v . United States , 126 F .3d 915, 922 (7th Cir . 1997) ; Tavano v .
Commissioner , 986 F .2d 1389, 1390 (11th Cir . 1993), affg . T .C .
Memo . 1991-237 ; Barnes v . Commissioner , 130 T .C . 248, 255-256
(2008) .

Moreover, petitioner's arguments take items out of context
and assert that inclusion of certain persons, activities or
locales as subject to taxing provisions excludes others or that
use of a particular form for one purpose means that it can only
be used for that purpose, to the exclusion of others . Such
interpretative arguments have been consistently rejected and
referred to by terms such as "inane" and "preposterous" . United
States v . Latham , 754 F .2d 747, 750 (7th Cir . '1985) . See also
United States v . Morse , 532 F .3d 1130, 1132-1133 (11th Cir .
2008) ; United States v . Ward , 833 F .2d 1538, 1539 (11th Cir .
1987)(interpreting "includes" as a term of limitation is "utterly
without merit") ; United States v . Rice , 659 F .2d 524 (5th Cir .,
1980) (describing the defendant's argument as a "frivolous nonsequitur")

Challenges to the authority of the Internal Revenue Service
to enforce the tax laws have been consistently rejected for
decades, and frivolous arguments have been the basis for
sanctions by all courts that have reviewed them . See, e .g .,
United States v . Morse , supra ; Madison v . United States , 758 F .2d
573 (11th Cir . 1985) . Petitioner's contentions are merely stale
and recycled versions of unsuccessful arguments from decades
past . As the Court of Appeals described the situation in
Lonsdale v . United States , 919 F .2d 1440, 1448 (7th Cir . . 1990),
"we are confronted here with taxpayers who simply refuse to
accept the judgments of the courts . "

Petitioner's egregious conduct here has extended beyond
making frivolous arguments . He has abused the processes of the
Court and made implausible and .spurious accusations against and
attempted to intimidate Federal employees performing their
official duties . He has declined the opportunity to identify any
items that would reduce the amounts determined in the notice of
deficiency . The Court denied respondent's motion to impose a
penalty under Internal Revenue Code section 667 .3 because the only
warning in the record was set forth in respondent's pretrial
memorandum . Petitioner, however, is now on notice that any such
claims in the future may result in a penalty in an amount not in
excess of $25,000 under Internal Revenue Code section 6673 .
Larry R. Bradshaw v. Commissioner, No. 13462-09 (U.S.T.C. 4/16/2010).
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Gregg »

Sounds like the best summation of CTC I've ever seen, even if the guy's not a CTC idiot.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by fortinbras »

Larry R. Bradshaw actually brags about being the follower of some of the most flamboyant, least successful, scofflaws:

http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Larry_R_Bradshaw


I have not been able to find the quoted Bradshaw decision on WestLaw, Lexis, or the US Tax Court website. I'd appreciate a link to the complete text.

(However I found another case in which many of the same phrases were used: Wm. R. Tinnerman v. CIR (7/13/2010) TC Memo 2010-150.)
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by LPC »

fortinbras wrote:I have not been able to find the quoted Bradshaw decision on WestLaw, Lexis, or the US Tax Court website. I'd appreciate a link to the complete text.
It's not a published opinion, so you have to do a Tax Court docket search, and then click on the "View" link for the 4/16/2010 docket entry. (The url generated for the opinion is a temporary one, so the url I got won't work now.)

I looked up the appeal on PACER and I've put a copy of the government's brief to the 11th Circuit here, if you want to see it. It provides additional details into some of the nutty discovery requests and motions made by Bradshaw.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by LaVidaRoja »

Since the case was dismissed by the Tax Court, there is no published decision. You can find it by the name (Bradshaw) on the docket inquiry section of the Tax Court web site.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Famspear »

From the material linked above:
......Larry engaged in a private study of law and Administrative procedures including the Internal Revenue Manual ten years ago. As an interior finish-out contractor in the housing construction business, Larry was introduced to theirs [sic] abuse. In 1996, Larry was called into the IRS office where he was interrogated and de-humanized. Upon leaving that audit, Larry determined that no one should have to endure such abuse. As a result of that audit Larry began studying the inter [sic] working of the IRS. Two years later he closed up his business, went into his office and embarked on a quest to discover the truth.....
http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Larry_R_Bradshaw

(bolding added)

What a load of familiar, trite, clichéd horses**t......
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Famspear »

Here's a you tube video from the master legal researcher, Larry Bradshaw:

http://www.youtube.com/user/everybodyknows1000
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by notorial dissent »

And obviously still hasn't found IT yet. I wasn’t aware that being an “interior finish-out contractor” was a qualifikation for being an administrative law expert, gee, you learn something new every day, or maybe NOT. At this point, I would say our “expert’s” track record is still a solid 0 for all.

I wonder if knowledge of ten year old administrative and tax law is any more useful than knowledge of a 100 year old legal dictionary?

The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by johnnyrie »

LPC wrote:From a website I was just looking at:
The United States Supreme Court in a 1941 case, District of Columbia v Murphy, 314 U.S. 441 (1941), restated the comments of Senator Overton, Chairman of the Senate conferees, “Mr. President, I now call your attention to the fact that the individual income tax is imposed only on those domiciled in the District of Columbia….”
It's a great quote, and I'm surprised we haven't seen it before.

Of course, the income tax that the Senator is talking about is not the income tax imposed by the Internal Revenue Code, but the income tax imposed under the "District of Columbia Income Tax Act" which is (as the name suggests) limited to individuals domiciled in the District of Columbia.

But it's still a great quote, and I'm sure we'll see it again.

Let me preface this with the fact that I'm on your side. However, must we not have a life to the point of finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments? While I'm pretty sure that the previous sentence was not 100% grammatically correct, I think it conveys the point that Dan-E might need something else to occupy his mind. Is Dan attached? I have many friends that are similarly misguided that have had considerable success on internet dating sites. It's just a thought.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Famspear »

johnnyrie wrote:Let me preface this with the fact that I'm on your side. However, must we not have a life to the point of finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments? While I'm pretty sure that the previous sentence was not 100% grammatically correct, I think it conveys the point that Dan-E might need something else to occupy his mind. Is Dan attached? I have many friends that are similarly misguided that have had considerable success on internet dating sites. It's just a thought.
I'm convinced that there is no meaning or purpose in life beyond finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments. That's why I spend 100% of my time here on this web site, to the extent that I have no outside interests, and indeed no ability to support myself and my family spiritually, financially, or emotionally. I'm a physical and emotional wreck as a result of my obsession. I'm sure that it's the same for Dan and everyone else here, right? I mean, what other possibility could there be?

:Axe:
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by LPC »

johnnyrie wrote:must we not have a life to the point of finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments? While I'm pretty sure that the previous sentence was not 100% grammatically correct, I think it conveys the point that Dan-E might need something else to occupy his mind. Is Dan attached? I have many friends that are similarly misguided that have had considerable success on internet dating sites. It's just a thought.
I once called someone in the Treasury Department about a particular pleading, and I said that I was curious because my hobby was collecting crazy tax arguments. He said, "Have you considered matchbook covers?"

I have to admit, he had a point.

As far as the other things that "occupy his mind," I think that your concern says as much about you as it says about me.
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(And author of the Tax Protester FAQ: evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html)
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by Quixote »

Famspear wrote:
johnnyrie wrote:Let me preface this with the fact that I'm on your side. However, must we not have a life to the point of finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments? While I'm pretty sure that the previous sentence was not 100% grammatically correct, I think it conveys the point that Dan-E might need something else to occupy his mind. Is Dan attached? I have many friends that are similarly misguided that have had considerable success on internet dating sites. It's just a thought.
I'm convinced that there is no meaning or purpose in life beyond finding the ways that d-bags can further stupid arguments. That's why I spend 100% of my time here on this web site, to the extent that I have no outside interests, and indeed no ability to support myself and my family spiritually, financially, or emotionally. I'm a physical and emotional wreck as a result of my obsession. I'm sure that it's the same for Dan and everyone else here, right? I mean, what other possibility could there be?

:Axe:
Thank you for sharing that, Famspear. I thought I was alone. Between Quatloos and my passion for porcelain penguins, I have depleted the fortune left to me by my grandfather, the pretzel king of Waxachie.
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Re: Suprised we haven't seen this before

Post by webhick »

Quixote wrote:Thank you for sharing that, Famspear. I thought I was alone. Between Quatloos and my passion for porcelain penguins, I have depleted the fortune left to me by my grandfather, the pretzel king of Waxachie.
Well, at least you can eat the penguins.
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