EFT Only for Discharge of Debt

[Still_Smilin]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone on here can tell me about the scam of writing "EFT ONLY for Discharge of Debt" on the front of a check. On the back is written "Not for deposit EFT Only for discharge of Debt". I have done a little bit of research and I see the FBI has identified this as a scam, however, I'm just curious if anyone has any firsthand knowledge of what this is supposed to do? The check itself appears valid, but I'm guessing the account is probably closed? I'm wondering if that's the idea, that if you try to cash the check, then the account will be closed and the individual would argue that you accepted it as payment?

Any help would be appreciated!

[The Observer]

EFT stands for Electronic Transfer of Funds. This scam appears to rely on the old UCC-1 filing scam that claims by filing the promoter's magical documents, you can discharge all debts from parking tickets to mortgages. One website claims:

Every December 'xxxx.com ' faces financial needs that keep us Hosted on the Internet and Live on the Radio. We pray that God may lay it on your heart – to send a donation in support of ' xxxxx.com '

[Promoter's name and address] is where you may send a donation. For over 22 years we go forward with Faith and Prayer to perform our work to shine the light on the darkness and to take a stand for freedoms.

Even $20 donations make a difference.

On Dec Dec 17th a gathering is organized that may teach you the steps to take to put a stop to Foreclosurres [sic]. [Two promoters' names] are prepared to share some of their secrets that a few Americans are using to discharge debts. People are paying over $500 to attend Seminars like this, in order to learn these tactics for liberty.

You may pay just $25 to attend this " Checkmate, the Sovereign Wins, " Seminar. This fee is very affordable. How much is your freedom worth? DeFacto Judges don't appreciate the principles [two promoters' names] are teaching.

[two promoters' names] teach how you may
1 – Eliminate Traffic Tickets
2 – Travel Freely Without Persecution
3 – Stop Bill Collector and Attorney Harassment
4 – Stop Foreclosures even if your house has been sold
5 – Lawfully Protect Youself from the IRS
6 – Learn Your Rights and How to Protect them.

One of [promoter's names] students has discharged over $30Million in debts. What is the price for your freedom?

Our rights do not come from the constitution. Our Rights Come from God, but if we don't exercise our rights then do we really have them? All over America Occupy Protestors are complaining about their loss of jobs and about foreclosure issues, but [two promoters' names]teach what you can do to solve these problems.

Of course the site doesn't come out and give all the details of how their scheme works. For that you gotta pay the seminar fee and attend. Even then, I'm sure that the $25 fee won't provide the entire "instruction" set, the attendees will have to pay a higher amount for the package - which will be totally useless to them when they try to implement it.

Hopefully, one of the regulars here has more knowledge of how the check cashing issue works here or else the Hard Drive o' Demo, an ancient and powerful Quatloosian artifact, will reveal more. I tend to think your theory about the check being issued on a closed or minimally funded account is the first step. The second step must involve sending out copies of the bogus UCC-1 filings in response to the complaints that come in when the checks bounce. These will probably state something to the effect that the debt in question has been satisfied by the UCC-1 filings and that either the creditor needs to apply to the government to receive the funds or that the debt has been fully discharged by operation of law and that they cannot pursue the debtor anymore.

[Gregg]

The Oracle of Doom, at The Hard Drive of Demo



Bringing the destruction down on you since AL Gore invented the internet!

[Kestrel]

On the back is written "Not for deposit EFT Only for discharge of Debt". I have done a little bit of research and I see the FBI has identified this as a scam, however, I'm just curious if anyone has any firsthand knowledge of what this is supposed to do? The check itself appears valid, but I'm guessing the account is probably closed? I'm wondering if that's the idea, that if you try to cash the check, then the account will be closed and the individual would argue that you accepted it as payment?

Any help would be appreciated!

I would refuse or return for reissue any check which came to me with "Not For Deposit" written on it. (But I'd photocopy it first - I might need it when I sue him for nonpayment.) As a Holder in Due Course, I get to decide when, where and how I will negotiate the payment. I'm not going to let some tricksy sov'run scam artist claim that partial payment means the debt is paid in full just because he has invoked some crazy interpretation of the UCC.

This scam says that if someone's creditor accepts such an instrument and negotiates it as an EFT, regardless of the amount of the payment, the underlying debt is paid in full. It takes the fact that the "debt" represented by the EFT (meaning the face amount of the check) clears the bank (gets "extinguished") immediately, and fraudulently extends that definition of "debt extinguished" to mean the entire unpaid balance of the account. So the scam artist tries to pay off his $20,000 car loan, for instance, with one $500 EFT.

Here's a link to A Sov'run Gobbledygook Explanation of how they try twisting the law to use EFTs to cheat honest people like you. WARNING! Little, if any, of their explanation is true.

[The Observer]

EFT’s----- Work 100% of the Time-------10-15% of the time upfront.
The remaining 85-90% require a little work. Remember this is a game. It really comes
down to how much you know and how far you will push the banks and financial
institutions into discharging your debt. All [sic] you willing to go “all the way” and do you
have the intestinal fortitude to go to court and stand your ground. They cannot win in
court and they don’t want you to go to court because then they have to explain line-byline
as to what happens when an EFT is affected. Especially when you are willing to
depose the witnesses through discovery and “everything “ is reveled step by step.

I suspect this is how the promoters deal with complaints when the "EFT" doesn't work. They will simply tell the victim, "Well, you weren't willing to go all the way and you let the bank push you around until they won. Not our fault."

Thanks for finding that source, Kestrel.

[Still_Smilin]

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it! You guys are a great resource for information and always so quick (not that I've posted much)!!

[Demosthenes]

The harddrive o'demo has about 35 pages of an ongoing battle between sovereign EFT scammers Fred and Nina Guttierez and sovrun debt elimination scammers Jack and Margy Flynn.

It's big fun.

EFT, as pitched by Fred and Nina, was simply an another debt elimination scam that didn't work.

[Demosthenes]

FROM: “Anonymous” by request
TO: Jack and Margy Flynn

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:31 PM

Hi Jack and Margy,

I have just finished studying your 13 1/2 hour DVD. Again, excellent information. However, after watching it, I have very real cause for 'alarm' in regard to Fred G and Nina. I suspect they may be moles trying to build your trust and ruin the Constitutional movements with disinformation. I would like your opinion and I can give many facts and evidence as to why I supsect this. I will give some here, but to keep it short, since you get so many e-mails and I can always answer farther questions in any area in particular.

Ok . . . so here it goes. . . I have been working with "Fred" (if that is even who he is, I do know the government can 'install' multiple personalities into one person . . .that is another topic per say) for over a year now.
How long has he been in contact and working with you both?
My journey in working with Fred started when my parents and I attended a meeting held in NV around September of 2010 (might have been a month or two earlier) and I told him I wanted to make the materials for people to easily be able to understand and do the processes. He "agreed" and said he wanted to talk farther with me on that. Yet, now about a year later, he has avoided every attempt I have made to move that forward.
Now, after watching your DVD, I have seen and learned that the way he has been having me do multiple processes is wrong from notary protest processes to court processes. Fred was helping my family with my brothers court case that started from an unlawful arrest, jail time and theft of my brothers car since Dec of 2010. He flew out here a variety of times (at my parents' expense to 'assist' with things. Though when here, he did not really do very much. He was to be counsel for my brother, but he would just go and sit down once the judge told him to. From your video perhaps this is proper? However, he never once had us file any counter claims. We never filed any Judicial Notice. Fred indicated that the local county court could not be an Article III court and that we had to be in a main Federal court to be in an Article III court. Which you explicitely say DO NOT GO TO! During the process of working my brother's court case on this end with serving and filing things, I learned during the second phase when Aaron's (my brother's) case got moved to another branch of the court in our county, that all our paperwork was not in the right format for them to 'file' them. they told me they could 'receive' them. But, not file them because the format was wrong. At that stage I asked the court clerk where I could find the rules for that and she gave me the location in the code where it was. I wrote it down and was going to look into it . . . I spoke with Fred later on about it and he got mad at me and told me his format was the way it was supposed to be and (indicated you both) that, that was how is was supposed to be and that he'd done all this before and that format was what worked and that they have to accept the format I was giving it in. Things dragged on over the months with Fred flying out here and going to court with us when he could make it. While also making passes at me on the visits and leading me to believe he wanted to be with me (another part of the story) and with me foolishly trusting him, though never quite entirely because of my former expereinces with my daughter's biological father. Fred, told us pretty consistently that "we will press charges on these guys". But, he indicated that it would come "AFTER" we finished everything in the court here and it would happen once in an 'Article III' (Federal) court. Months went by with us expecting to file some kind of charges, but not having any idea how to really go about it. So we were left just waiting and me regularly asking him to do it . . . and him saying OVER and over again . . . yes, "Its done" and I will send it tonight.

This has been an ongoing pattern with Fred since the day I met him. He says he will help and pretty much when he realizes I am going to go somewhere else to find the answers (or he realized I had found something) he would give me something else to keep me 'trusting' in him. He did mention filing summons and complaints and one point mentioned the illusive presumptive letters. Yet, he never gave any direction on how to do it, what it was, who it went to, or for what purpose. Finally, my brother about a month ago (because the Constitution is not in him to uphold or be responsible for or having the cahones to do what he needs to do) he let the judges bully him into signing a thing because Fred would not give us the tools we needed to fight these guys properly. During the process, I had discovered on my own the REQUEST FOR ADMISSIONS and I wrote one . . . and I served it . . . and Fred got down on me for it. I don't think it was out of sequence, either.

Now, lets move to the houses situtations . . . we did the EFTs for multiple homes (none of which worked fully). We started that process on one in particular in November. Fred again was directing what we should do and how we should respond. While some of the things he had I think were good, they again seemed to miss the mark. I actually flew out to Vegas to meet up with Fred, to find out about the Notary Protest process and how to do it correctly. Though for someone as well versed in it (as he claims) he could barely spit out the process and it literally took me about three to four hours to get it out of him. He was beating around the bush most of the time. Now, he has not had us EVER send any presumptive letters . . . and had I not watched your DVD, I still would not know exactly what it is. Though he has used your varbage on a variety of things. Though things have been 'incorrect' enough to render it ineffective. He recently (about August 2, 2011) told me to just trust him for two more months . . . in regard to the houses . . . in October and illegal foreclosure sale is set to commence on the courthouse steps for some friends I am repping as their attorney in fact and for my own parents' and I's home one month after that. Fred told me, we would start on that stuff within 2-3 days of August 2 . . . to this date he has helped with literally NOTHING. In fact, I have not even heard from him in about a month now, as I sent him an e-mail calling into question a lot of things. To which he has never responded and in this instance he has a duty to respond as it is similar to the instances created with the government officials not responding to your presumptive notices. Also, at the start he said specifically to NOT get an attorney (knowing what I know now there is no way in heck I would want one to rep me...unless I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt their character was honorable..unlikely) and now near the end he wanted us to pay 2,000 for an attorney to take over. One to which he never gives us their name or contact information.
In addition, while working my brothers case, he told me to get a copy of the judges and etc. Oath of Office. Yet, he never told me where to go to get it. I spent at least 2 days asking around from place to place, Sheriffs offices, court offices, county records office and etc . . . till finally I located them in the County Recorder office. I am guessing he knew exactly where they were filed at but wanted to make me waste time searching for them.

Prior to the Vegas meeting you spoke at (and to which I could hardly understand a single word of what you both said because the sound quality was so poor when you spoke), I was not given your contact info. During that meeting they intentionally kept me away from you both. At one point, they sent Michelle (the heavy set Hawaiian gal) over to the table I was at and had all 6-7 other people at that table get up and come sit at your table to speak with you. Specifically, and intentionally telling me to stay there at the table as there was no room for me at your table. I was left sitting there alone and quite frankly felt like crying because it was really mean! While I do know that synchronicity has its timing, it was still very awkward. That was when a nice young man by the name of Azrael came over and sat down with me. He could both see and feel what was going on. He teaches the Bronnikov Method. I have remained in touch with him and various others from Fred's meetings and I am not alone in my suspicions (based on facts, evidence and truth) of him being a con man. I wound up getting your website info from Nina as she told me your web address when in the van on the way to the airport. Fred also promised me that he would send me a copy of your DVD...on at least 3 different occassions and never did. I waited up till the point I contacted you and mailed off for it. He indicated that you were ok with him making me a copy when I asked him if that would be ok (as I wanted to be honorable and get your permission first...though he 'indicated' it was ok and for me to now worry about it, I think his intentions were that I never truly get in contact with you, as he knows I am serious on doing this stuff and nailing people).

Well, this is enough for now. But, I can related story after story of promises by Fred and his failure to come through or when he does "come through: how its been incorrectly done and I keep finding things that are wrong that have made my work to this point weak and or useless.

I want to nail 2 jurisdictions. We have homes in two counties. El Dorado and Sacramento. I also recently had Homeland Security (my ass)steal my organic green coffee that I ordered from Australia claiming it is an illegal drug and want me to give them permission to steal it and destroy it! I say "NO WAY IN HELL. . . you don't steal a woman's coffee!!!" lol I will do whatever it takes to take these fraudulent fools down. I recognize the risks and I also recognize the truth and the truth must be made to shine and to prevail.

I also want you to know that I know Peter Dorsett and I have recenlty re-connected with him because of seeing him in your DVD and he is also friends with a couple we trust, who are in contact with ETs regularly.


I am sorry this is such a long e-mail, but I felt it important to give you examples of facts so you can look at things and make decisions for yourselves. I have great respect for both of you and if I were the government and I wanted to F-things up for you . . . I would send in someone like Fred to give the illusion of being a key forerunner in things and would gain your trust by picking fights (on an island away from the masses) and having victories to impress you against the government and to convice you I am legit. I would then do as he is doing and tell people this stuff works and tell them of all the people that are succeeding and proceed to only give 1/3 of the information and processed needed and required, all the while keeping the person hopeful until the government has effectly stole everything and then somehow blaim it on the person executing the process like there was something wrong with them. I can tell you are both the real deal. So if nothing else, the journey has not only shown me I MUST defend and protect not only my rights but the rights of everyone in the fashion I can and to have met you. I am very serious about making this stuff easy to follow for those with heart. It is my destiny. I am a worker, I am a doer, all I have needed to this point is the RIGHT information to go after these bastards. . . pardon my american . . . before everything that happened to me...I used to be a toosie frootsie too! lol. But, I recognize the folly in that now. I am here and ready to do battle. Help me fill in the blanks with the rest of the tools and I will go after everyone who want to perpetuate fraud.

Thank you for your work . . . it is truly a gift and I am extremely greatful. I can see you both are legit and I have had (sadly) bad experiences with slick narcissistic con men who pretend to be honorable while knifing you in the back claiming they are doing you a favor. I want you both to be very careful at the very least conscious and alert) in your dealing with Fred (take note of even the smallest of details...I have noted a pattern with Fred is to avoid helping one person in favor of claiming he is helping 'someone' else). I have a feeling what you are being shown is very different than what he is showing the people he "helps". Since you have an 80%+ success rate and have had death threats and then some . . . I think another method is being applied to try to thwart you. I am here to thwart that.

I am going to be writing letters this week per your DVD instructions with some of my own flavor to 'government' officials. I want to ensure I am doing this CORRECTLY. I am very meticulous and extremely good at following directions. I am in this for the long haul, I will sue, write to and notice anyone I have to. I will do what is needed to suceed. With the right help, and tools, I can do this. Will you help me?

[Demosthenes]

Fred and Nina's EFT scam website:

http://www.setoffdebt.com/

[Kestrel]

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate it! You guys are a great resource for information and always so quick (not that I've posted much)!!

Glad to help!

EFT’s----- Work 100% of the Time-------10-15% of the time upfront.
The remaining 85-90% require a little work. Remember this is a game. It really comes
down to how much you know and how far you will push the banks and financial
institutions into discharging your debt. All [sic] you willing to go “all the way” and do you
have the intestinal fortitude to go to court and stand your ground. They cannot win in
court and they don’t want you to go to court because then they have to explain line-byline
as to what happens when an EFT is affected. Especially when you are willing to
depose the witnesses through discovery and “everything “ is reveled step by step.

I suspect this is how the promoters deal with complaints when the "EFT" doesn't work. They will simply tell the victim, "Well, you weren't willing to go all the way and you let the bank push you around until they won. Not our fault."

Thanks for finding that source, Kestrel.

I loved reading the idjut's instructions on how to deal with an officer during a traffic stop:

TRAFFIC COP PULLOVER (page 17)
They must produce their “oath of office” and good-faith Bond Attached. Once decided
means “always decided” State to State. This applies everywhere. They are in fact
imposters and trespassers of law and their position is vacated under their corporate veil. Do not need drivers license. Here is my private id that has been notarized. Car is not in
my name. You do not have to leave the vehicle. If you do not sign they cannot take you
to jail. Print you name and write “under duress”. The ticket is an invitation to appear. Do
not be combative or argumentative. Stress that we no the law. What was the felony
probable cause that caused you to stop me under the 4th Amendment of the Federal
Constitution. Case law regarding the “oath of office” and what these people are required
to produce. Without a drivers license they cannot do anything!!! Since my ID was not
issued by the state. The car is registered in someone else’s name. He had no authority or
jurisdiction. Get his name and badge number. Appellate Court Supreme Court ruling that
a traffic or debt citation is only an invitation to appear it is not a requirement. The charge
itself is not an arrestable offense and they would have to prepare a criminal complaint
supported by an affidavit and file it in the court BEFORE they could issue a bench
warrant. Which means all these bench warrants are completely done in fraud!!!

Yeah, that'll work.

The website which posted the above sov'run document under the name "Gary's Notes" also links to pages for "Strawman," "Dinar Banker" and "Daily (Ron) Paul." And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Fortunately, their link has been disabled for "Top Secret Illuminati Video Leaked - The Illuminati's Plan for 2012." We wouldn't want that getting out.

[wserra]

Fortunately, their link has been disabled for "Top Secret Illuminati Video Leaked - The Illuminati's Plan for 2012." We wouldn't want that getting out.

But mental midgets like those guys don't even realize that they're part of it.

[ArthurWankspittle]

I suspect that driving a known drug route plus winding up a cop with this BS, plus some sudden movement and you won't ever be getting out of the car, at least not under your own power.
I particularly like this:

Stress that we no the law.

"We no the law
and the law won"

[Pottapaug1938]

"...we no the law."

You can "no" the law all you want; but "yes", you are still subject to it, no matter how fervently you believe otherwise.

[Kestrel]

Here's one from the same document for James Vincent. Enjoy.

CHILD SUPPORT

A garnishment against your bank account or paycheck is unlawful unless you have had a “trial by jury” and the judge signed the order authorizing to do so via culminating “trial by jury.” This is NOT due process of law and it is unlawfull. This is in accordance to Article 7 of the FEDERAL CONSTITUTION-You were DENIED the substitive due process of law as pursuant to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 14th amendments. The employer, accountant, comptroller, etc, can be held “liable” for stealing your money. This is also known as “theft by deception.” It does NOT matter who is doing it, including the STATE.

Send them a Lawful Notification Letter with a copy of your Status Affidavit, and please provide “bonefide” proof by residing specific law that grants you lawful authority to take my property which is a complete violation of the 4th, 5th, 7th, & 14th amendment protections. When they can’t answer that question and they refer to a State Statute then they have admitted that they customary do this as part of standard procedure. Immediately slap them with a lawsuit and prepare an affidavit and have them arrested. This is BOTH the company representative and the STATE employee. A Writ of Garnishment is NOT permissible due to the fact that you were NOT given your day in court and the court has NO jurisdiction in this matter.

[notorial dissent]

I hadn't seen this particular bit of nonsense until the other day when I came across a ranting screed by one of the ignoricenti screaming about how he was going to sue Wells Fargo for having refused to process his EFT, and how they couldn’t refuse to accept his restrictive endorsement and so on. At the time I couldn’t make any real sense out of what he was going on about except that it sounded like he was trying to use the very very old check on a closed account routine to settle some debt he had. I still don’t really get how that is supposed to work, other than that it is based on a very intentionally bad misreading of a UCC item. At least in this incidence, they have just updated the old write a bad check idea to using an EFT transaction and that it is supposed to make it all magically go away. Wonders of modern technology coupled with wilful pig ignorance. I very much suspect that what Demo has is the original versions of the scam, and this is just the trickle down to the ones who could only get a little of the whole thing to play with, and then took it and ran with it and came up with this new wrinkle.

[Gregg]

I have seen sites that tell you to write "accepted as payment in full"along with your signature on a check when you send in the payment, and if they cash it DOUBLE BONUS, your $5 check with the right magic phrase just paid off your $12,000 car loan!

Too bad it doesn't work. Back in the day when people really handled them it would havelikely been returned and they'd slap a late fee on you if the due date passed, but nowdays when I don't think humans actually handle the check (hell, I don't even use checks anymore, it's all online) you might get away with that crap most of the time.

[notorial dissent]

Well, the check would most likely get cashed, but as I recall there have been several court cases in recent times that tossed that particular little game on the dustpile of history for precisely the reason that so much of that is handled in automated fashion these days, that the old memo line statement or special endorsement just doesn't apply any more.