UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by wanglepin »

How's this for sitting on the fence. from what I can make out, according to this platinum starred idiot both the judge are wrong and is Ebert a waste of space. And oddly he has only just seen the judge’s decision.
I haven't copied it all, because it’s more tripe.
by handle » Tue May 26, 2015 4:24 am
Unfortunately i feel the waters have been muddied by an ebert approach to concentrating on claim fees.
Under para 22 the judge talks about the original mortgage being a "capital advance". This is a core issue of what is being advanced. The judge needs to specify what has been advanced, particularly as the bank has been bailed out and has had nothing to lend. We now know that the charge on the property creates the cash when the mortgagor signs the charge. We know that the money is created by tom when he charges the property. The bank has not lent anything.
Further, in para 82 the judge talks about capitalisation of interest arrears. Where did that money come from? It does not exist. It is created as profit so how can t be born. That is why the judge is constantly saying why he us troubled that tom s arrears are greater than the mortgage he took out.
http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/v ... WQYjDTF98E
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by wanglepin »

IDIOT wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPVy74LPa_4

Other than this guy saying Tom has paid Guy Taylor to help him he's spot on in his video. Is there any evidence of payments between TC and GT? If so TC has pissed his money up the wall when it should have gone towards paying the bills.

Evidence of TC paying GT and the GOOF'ers please?
There is, I believe a very recent interview (may have been with Vin?) where Taylor admits to charging for his "services". And so does Ebert by all accounts.
Edit: here ya go,I think it is this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGSJA3OOOuo
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by daveBeeston »

I know this might be from left field but im starting to think that its not Ceylon,Ebert and others leading Tom but he who is leading them(not that they are without blame for the situation that is unfolding).
Im starting to think that Tom knowing full well he was snookered decided to seak out those who could help get his message of woe out to the public,those who would without question blame the banks and the establishement for him loosing his family home and would put so much public pressure on B&B that they would simply walk away instead of stand their ground and take the negative publicity.

Once this is all over and the house is gone he can them claim that he was just following the advice of so called "professionals" and that he actually wanted to work with B&B to solve the problem but was persuaded by the "professionals" to cry fraud and take them to court and its not his fault but those who advised him who caused the loss of his home.

Just a thought. :thinking:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by guilty »

daveBeeston wrote:I know this might be from left field but im starting to think that its not Ceylon,Ebert and others leading Tom but he who is leading them(not that they are without blame for the situation that is unfolding).
Im starting to think that Tom knowing full well he was snookered decided to seak out those who could help get his message of woe out to the public,those who would without question blame the banks and the establishement for him loosing his family home and would put so much public pressure on B&B that they would simply walk away instead of stand their ground and take the negative publicity.

Once this is all over and the house is gone he can them claim that he was just following the advice of so called "professionals" and that he actually wanted to work with B&B to solve the problem but was persuaded by the "professionals" to cry fraud and take them to court and its not his fault but those who advised him who caused the loss of his home.

Just a thought. :thinking:
Yes, a bit left field. I don't see Tom as being that devious. Why spend all that time and energy on creating the situation, when with less effort he could have sorted it out satisfactorily with B&B? No, he is just a gullible dupe who has been infected by the nonsense spouted by Taylor and co. Taylor and co see it as an opportunity to be further noticed by the FOTLers and GOOFers and put themselves at the top of the SovCit hierarchy.
I still believe it started with Craig Crawford.
Most grown children, seeing their mum and dad in financial difficulties, would be helping them in their dealings with the bank, talking to lawyers, seeking proper solutions to their problems - even assisting financially. My parents brought me up, provided for me, and have helped me on my journey through life. I would go into debt myself if it would secure their quiet enjoyment of their autumn years.
Craig and Amanda have, it seems, done none of this. They have conspired with Taylor to create even more difficulties for their parents. I would be totally ashamed of myself if I had pushed this situation upon my mum and dad.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

guilty wrote:
daveBeeston wrote:I know this might be from left field but im starting to think that its not Ceylon,Ebert and others leading Tom but he who is leading them(not that they are without blame for the situation that is unfolding).
Im starting to think that Tom knowing full well he was snookered decided to seak out those who could help get his message of woe out to the public,those who would without question blame the banks and the establishement for him loosing his family home and would put so much public pressure on B&B that they would simply walk away instead of stand their ground and take the negative publicity.

Once this is all over and the house is gone he can them claim that he was just following the advice of so called "professionals" and that he actually wanted to work with B&B to solve the problem but was persuaded by the "professionals" to cry fraud and take them to court and its not his fault but those who advised him who caused the loss of his home.

Just a thought. :thinking:
Yes, a bit left field. I don't see Tom as being that devious. Why spend all that time and energy on creating the situation, when with less effort he could have sorted it out satisfactorily with B&B? No, he is just a gullible dupe who has been infected by the nonsense spouted by Taylor and co. Taylor and co see it as an opportunity to be further noticed by the FOTLers and GOOFers and put themselves at the top of the SovCit hierarchy.
I still believe it started with Craig Crawford.
Most grown children, seeing their mum and dad in financial difficulties, would be helping them in their dealings with the bank, talking to lawyers, seeking proper solutions to their problems - even assisting financially. My parents brought me up, provided for me, and have helped me on my journey through life. I would go into debt myself if it would secure their quiet enjoyment of their autumn years.
Craig and Amanda have, it seems, done none of this. They have conspired with Taylor to create even more difficulties for their parents. I would be totally ashamed of myself if I had pushed this situation upon my mum and dad.
Sorry but Tom Crawford is a grown man and responsible for his own finances. Financial difficulties happen to us all from time to time, we just have to deal with it. Not opening letters or burying your head in the sand is not the solution and Tom Crawford is old enough to know this especially when its the family home at risk.

I think that when this all started, when he decided to ignore B&B and not to accept proper financial advice given to him at the time to safeguard their future nor to seek independent advice, both Craig and his sister were both children anyway.

No, I'm afraid the blame lies squarely at the feet of Tom Crawford as does this ongoing nonsense. Have these people no shame, talk about washing your dirty linen in public!

Tom, do the right thing and walk away from the clowns, come to terms with what's happening and start making some plans. Being constantly in denial will not help. :brickwall:

As a family the Crawford's need to get a grip. :brickwall:

I just can't believe the brass neck of these people.
If it was me and my family I'd be mortified, shamed, embarrassed, humiliated, etc, etc, etc...
They really do need a lesson in dignity in defeat.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Normal Wisdom »

Tom Carter wrote:Sorry but Tom Crawford is a grown man and responsible for his own finances. Financial difficulties happen to us all from time to time, we just have to deal with it. Not opening letters or burying your head in the sand is not the solution and Tom Crawford is old enough to know this especially when its the family home at risk.

I think that when this all started, when he decided to ignore B&B and not to accept proper financial advice given to him at the time to safeguard their future nor to seek independent advice, both Craig and his sister were both children anyway.

No, I'm afraid the blame lies squarely at the feet of Tom Crawford as does this ongoing nonsense. Have these people no shame, talk about washing your dirty linen in public!

Tom, do the right thing and walk away from the clowns, come to terms with what's happening and start making some plans. Being constantly in denial will not help. :brickwall:

As a family the Crawford's need to get a grip. :brickwall:

I just can't believe the brass neck of these people.
If it was me and my family I'd be mortified, shamed, embarrassed, humiliated, etc, etc, etc...
They really do need a lesson in dignity in defeat.
It would be hard to argue with any of this. There is reasonable evidence that Tom or at least Mrs C had explored the option of changing to a repayment mortgage only a few years into the mortgage period but for some reason this wasn't followed up. Mrs C raised the issue again in 1999 and so B&B formerly offered it to Tom on a plate and with a cherry on top. It was his choice to reject the offer then, well before they had incurred significant arrears and long before his brush with cancer and to reject it again when it was offered in 2006 when the problems started to mount.

Over recent months many people, including myself by personal message, have begged Tom to seek professional advice at least to get a second opinion before deciding whether to carry on with his current course. Again he has steadfastly refused and in my case not even had the courtesy to respond. Instead he insults people who want him to keep his house (or at least did once) but cannot agree with his methods by calling them trolls, "dark forces" and asking what they have done to help people while patting himself on the back for leading others down the path he has followed and failed with.

So I agree, he is the author of his own downfall. I also agree that he has been let down badly by his family. I can imagine what my kids and my wife would be saying if I embarked on such a reckless campaign.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by daveBeeston »

I'm not doubting that Tom has been the architect of his and his families downfall, his reluctance to accept the situation and genuine help offered is well known.
I am questioning whether the involvement of the GOODF movement was by Tom's design or theirs, from what I've read of the Crawford both Tom and Craig seem to be chances Craig with his get rich quick online marketing scheme and Tom with the whole claim fraud and pay nothing approach.
I'm not entirely convinced that he and Craig have not orchestrated the involvement of the GOODF's and the public so he can claim foul(or even fraud again) against them for their "advice" costing him his home.

Either way my sympathy for him has completely gone, and I would hope that should I ever find myself doing something like this my family and friends would take me out back and beat some sense into me....
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

daveBeeston wrote:I'm not doubting that Tom has been the architect of his and his families downfall, his reluctance to accept the situation and genuine help offered is well known.
I am questioning whether the involvement of the GOODF movement was by Tom's design or theirs, from what I've read of the Crawford both Tom and Craig seem to be chances Craig with his get rich quick online marketing scheme and Tom with the whole claim fraud and pay nothing approach.
I'm not entirely convinced that he and Craig have not orchestrated the involvement of the GOODF's and the public so he can claim foul(or even fraud again) against them for their "advice" costing him his home.

Either way my sympathy for him has completely gone, and I would hope that should I ever find myself doing something like this my family and friends would take me out back and beat some sense into me....
Soz, my fault, speed reading again, will I never learn!

If your scenario is the case, which it may well be, Tom as a husband and father with all the responsibilities that go with that should know better than to be lead up the garden path by an insignificant little no mark chav like Craig.

If I'd tried any of this crap with my old man when I was Craig's age I would have got my ass kicked, that's for sure! :cry:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by IDIOT »

Team Crawford have gone very quiet the last few days.

No videos declaring the crushing defeat of B&B. Or are they keeping their cards close to their chests?
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by daveBeeston »

Tom Carter wrote:
daveBeeston wrote:I'm not doubting that Tom has been the architect of his and his families downfall, his reluctance to accept the situation and genuine help offered is well known.
I am questioning whether the involvement of the GOODF movement was by Tom's design or theirs, from what I've read of the Crawford both Tom and Craig seem to be chances Craig with his get rich quick online marketing scheme and Tom with the whole claim fraud and pay nothing approach.
I'm not entirely convinced that he and Craig have not orchestrated the involvement of the GOODF's and the public so he can claim foul(or even fraud again) against them for their "advice" costing him his home.

Either way my sympathy for him has completely gone, and I would hope that should I ever find myself doing something like this my family and friends would take me out back and beat some sense into me....
Soz, my fault, speed reading again, will I never learn!

If your scenario is the case, which it may well be, Tom as a husband and father with all the responsibilities that go with that should know better than to be lead up the garden path by an insignificant little no mark chav like Craig.

If I'd tried any of this crap with my old man when I was Craig's age I would have got my ass kicked, that's for sure! :cry:
Its just a theory I've had over the past few days as a result of discussing the case at work and with friends of course it could just be that as I've read so much of the waffle online from the supporters that my IQ has dropped to such a level that I'm indulging in a conspiracy angle....

Maybe I should go buy some tinfoil I could do with a new hat and not a Panama one I couldn't pull that off :)
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

daveBeeston wrote:
Tom Carter wrote:
daveBeeston wrote:I'm not doubting that Tom has been the architect of his and his families downfall, his reluctance to accept the situation and genuine help offered is well known.
I am questioning whether the involvement of the GOODF movement was by Tom's design or theirs, from what I've read of the Crawford both Tom and Craig seem to be chances Craig with his get rich quick online marketing scheme and Tom with the whole claim fraud and pay nothing approach.
I'm not entirely convinced that he and Craig have not orchestrated the involvement of the GOODF's and the public so he can claim foul(or even fraud again) against them for their "advice" costing him his home.

Either way my sympathy for him has completely gone, and I would hope that should I ever find myself doing something like this my family and friends would take me out back and beat some sense into me....
Soz, my fault, speed reading again, will I never learn!

If your scenario is the case, which it may well be, Tom as a husband and father with all the responsibilities that go with that should know better than to be lead up the garden path by an insignificant little no mark chav like Craig.

If I'd tried any of this crap with my old man when I was Craig's age I would have got my ass kicked, that's for sure! :cry:
Its just a theory I've had over the past few days as a result of discussing the case at work and with friends of course it could just be that as I've read so much of the waffle online from the supporters that my IQ has dropped to such a level that I'm indulging in a conspiracy angle....

Maybe I should go buy some tinfoil I could do with a new hat and not a Panama one I couldn't pull that off :)
There ya go...lol Protected from all the brainwashing & bullsh*t now!
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by PeanutGallery »

I think that ultimately Tom is responsible for what is happening to him. He's not mentally incompetent and to a certain extent people have to be responsible for their actions both good and bad. It's the simple concept of accountability. I think both of them are trying to use each other, but each side have different goals.

I think Tom went down the GOOFY path simply because he was being told what he wanted to hear and not what he needed to hear. He chose to do that. He decided not to get objective advice but instead to go to people who were quite willing to use him and use his scenario to test out their theories, knowing they had nothing to lose if Tom failed. If their theory doesn't work, they can find another Tom Crawford. If it does work, they can package and sell it.

Tom probably swallowed some of the woo kool-aid and likely ingratiated himself amongst the leaders and promoted his issue to where it became national news. This encouraged the guru's to jump on board the Crawford bandwagon and use his popularity to promote their wares. Is it any surprise that on the day of the Nottingham Post protest, Peter of England had a talk in Nottingham? Peter likely anticipated a larger crowd and thought he could huck his 'bank' to those attending the March for Crawford's Trooth.

But at the same time that Tom thought he was using the Guru's to help save his house and promote his beliefs, they were using him. They used his popularity to espouse their own theories, on the corruption of the banks and their perception of endemic fraud in the financial system, they came up with a hundred reasons as to why they thought he didn't owe the money, they never mentioned the one reason why he did (which was that when he took the money he agreed to make interest payments and then after a period repay the whole amount).

Tom didn't help the situation, he obfuscated the truth and made claims that weren't backed up by the documents in his possession. He and his helpers created a new fantasy, that of the man who paid his mortgage in full and now at the end was about to be repossessed because the bank had lost the documents. It evoked a memory of a case in America, where a woman returned home one day to find her house stripped of her possessions, because a bank had foreclosed on her neighbour and the bailiffs had gone to the wrong address.

But that wasn't true. Tom knew it wasn't true, Guy knew it wasn't true, Ebert probably wouldn't know the truth if it hit him square in the face with a big stick that said THIS IS THE TRUTH on it and Ceylon didn't care what the truth was so long as he got to make a video and the mob wanted to help this poor old man who seemed a victim out. The mob seemed to be the only people their with the genuine intention of helping Tom. It says a lot that at the second protest Roger Hayes turned up to force himself into the limelight.

Here's the thing, we would have wanted to help too. On another forum, dealing with landlord and tenant law I post advice on how a tenant should deal with eviction and suggest methods by which they can deal with that circumstance in a legal manner that respects their rights and also recognises the rights of the landlord. Had Tom posted on that site he would have received advice on where he stood, the best he could hope for and the options available to him (it likely would have been try to clear the arrears and look to downsize/move into a retirement property, talk with the bank and see if you can come to a voluntary arrangement where they agree not to repossess and you agree to sell, explain that this will result in them getting their money sooner and with less costs than legal action).

Tom likely made the mistake that cost him house before he met any of the GOODF Guru's who have given him bad advice, but until he met them he could have recovered that mistake and corrected his action. He didn't. Ultimately Tom is where he is because he made bad choices, but he wasn't helped by the Guru's.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by wanglepin »

Tom or someone in his family sought an easy way out via goodf. Along came Celon (local boy) Mark Haining. Tom made his first plea for assistance on Goodf. Ceylon introduced him to Taylor who in turn introduced him to Ebert. True, Tom could have taken a better route, but once Haining had spent a few hours with Tom it was game over for Tom and more notoriety for Mark Haining Ceylon, goodf and Guy Taylor. It was not until Tom's case went national did that other status seeker Roger Hayes jump on the Tom Crawford bandwagon and began to take over proceedings at 3 Fern Close ("if the bailiffs attempt an eviction we will arrest them") and down at the courthouse where the rabble were told "it has been a good day, Bradford and Bingley have now opened a door". I am sorry it was not a cell door for Hayes and Ceylon.

Tom was loving being center of attention and feeling important right up until the court verdict last week. I notice now, he is looking worn down and disengaged. He seems to want to put some distance between himself and this whole sorry debacle that he has caused, but there isn't much chance of that. People won't forget the lies and deceit.
The quicker the house goes the better. That should make the court decision plain enough for everyone on the planet to understand that Tom Crawford lost his case.

Yes, I can see that hat just blowing in the wind down Fern Close like a ball of tumbleweed.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by rumpelstilzchen »

In my opinion Crawford, Taylor, Ebert, Waugh and Haining are all as bad as each other. You can't believe anything that comes out of any of their mouths. Ditch the sympathy for Crawford. He is no different to the rest of them.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

rumpelstilzchen wrote:In my opinion Crawford, Taylor, Ebert, Waugh and Haining are all as bad as each other. You can't believe anything that comes out of any of their mouths. Ditch the sympathy for Crawford. He is no different to the rest of them.
Wow, I'm obviously missing something here. I would love to have the standard of background knowledge of these clowns to be able to make a sweeping statement like that!

All I know of these people is what has become apparent throughout this case, any further back or depth of connections between them is beyond me.

My charitable side tends to lean towards ignorance & stupidity together with plenty of cunning on Tom's behalf, my not so charitable side agrees entirely with 'rumpelstilzchen' , either way Tom Crawford is 100% at fault, whoever the preverbal stuff sticks too is yet another matter. There's only one person ultimately responsible for Tom and his circumstances and that's himself.

It's not so much a matter of who's at fault, more a matter of by what degree and in my opinion motives like deception, selfishness & self-promotion come top of list therefore with nothing to lose themselves it has to be Taylor 1st closely followed by Haining.
In my opinion both nasty, vile creatures, the pair of them. :evil:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by JonnyL »

Tom Carter wrote:
rumpelstilzchen wrote:In my opinion Crawford, Taylor, Ebert, Waugh and Haining are all as bad as each other. You can't believe anything that comes out of any of their mouths. Ditch the sympathy for Crawford. He is no different to the rest of them.
Wow, I'm obviously missing something here. I would love to have the standard of background knowledge of these clowns to be able to make a sweeping statement like that!

All I know of these people is what has become apparent throughout this case, any further back or depth of connections between them is beyond me.

My charitable side tends to lean towards ignorance & stupidity together with plenty of cunning on Tom's behalf, my not so charitable side agrees entirely with 'rumpelstilzchen' , either way Tom Crawford is 100% at fault, whoever the preverbal stuff sticks too is yet another matter. There's only one person ultimately responsible for Tom and his circumstances and that's himself.

It's not so much a matter of who's at fault, more a matter of by what degree and in my opinion motives like deception, selfishness & self-promotion come top of list therefore with nothing to lose themselves it has to be Taylor 1st closely followed by Haining.
In my opinion both nasty, vile creatures, the pair of them. :evil:
Someone posted me a link a while back showing Tom was well into this freetard GOODF long before he called for help re his pending stuff eviction.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Tom Carter »

JonnyL wrote:
Tom Carter wrote:
rumpelstilzchen wrote:In my opinion Crawford, Taylor, Ebert, Waugh and Haining are all as bad as each other. You can't believe anything that comes out of any of their mouths. Ditch the sympathy for Crawford. He is no different to the rest of them.
Wow, I'm obviously missing something here. I would love to have the standard of background knowledge of these clowns to be able to make a sweeping statement like that!

All I know of these people is what has become apparent throughout this case, any further back or depth of connections between them is beyond me.

My charitable side tends to lean towards ignorance & stupidity together with plenty of cunning on Tom's behalf, my not so charitable side agrees entirely with 'rumpelstilzchen' , either way Tom Crawford is 100% at fault, whoever the preverbal stuff sticks too is yet another matter. There's only one person ultimately responsible for Tom and his circumstances and that's himself.

It's not so much a matter of who's at fault, more a matter of by what degree and in my opinion motives like deception, selfishness & self-promotion come top of list therefore with nothing to lose themselves it has to be Taylor 1st closely followed by Haining.
In my opinion both nasty, vile creatures, the pair of them. :evil:
Someone posted me a link a while back showing Tom was well into this freetard GOODF long before he called for help re his pending stuff eviction.
Any chance if digging it out? I'd love to know the proper backstory to all this.
Much more than meets the eye going on here then! :?:
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by vampireLOREN »

rumpelstilzchen wrote:In my opinion Crawford, Taylor, Ebert, Waugh and Haining are all as bad as each other. You can't believe anything that comes out of any of their mouths. Ditch the sympathy for Crawford. He is no different to the rest of them.
That should be the epitaph for this sorry arsed bunch of Lunatics.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by vampireLOREN »

wanglepin wrote:Tom or someone in his family sought an easy way out via goodf. Along came Celon (local boy) Mark Haining. Tom made his first plea for assistance on Goodf. Ceylon introduced him to Taylor who in turn introduced him to Ebert. True, Tom could have taken a better route, but once Haining had spent a few hours with Tom it was game over for Tom and more notoriety for Mark Haining Ceylon, goodf and Guy Taylor. It was not until Tom's case went national did that other status seeker Roger Hayes jump on the Tom Crawford bandwagon and began to take over proceedings at 3 Fern Close ("if the bailiffs attempt an eviction we will arrest them") and down at the courthouse where the rabble were told "it has been a good day, Bradford and Bingley have now opened a door". I am sorry it was not a cell door for Hayes and Ceylon.

Tom was loving being center of attention and feeling important right up until the court verdict last week. I notice now, he is looking worn down and disengaged. He seems to want to put some distance between himself and this whole sorry debacle that he has caused, but there isn't much chance of that. People won't forget the lies and deceit.
The quicker the house goes the better. That should make the court decision plain enough for everyone on the planet to understand that Tom Crawford lost his case.

Yes, I can see that hat just blowing in the wind down Fern Close like a ball of tumbleweed.
This old panama hatted rat bag has had his 15mins, and loved every minute of the limelight.He might have encouraged others to follow him and still might. He is a Huckster , a mountebank and a danger to the weak minded. He was shown compassion and a degree of understanding by the Judge. He received patience from the Lender, deep down I doubt he thinks or really cares for those he now advises ....Nothing ! beyond his own door.
I detest the man and have formed a low opinion of his family too.
ps now I feel better :wink: .
If people from Poland are called Poles Why are aren't people from Holland called Holes?