UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by letissier14 »

Bones wrote:
I do mean this with no disrespect. However, if Jon really wanted to calm things down and really wanted to appeal for common sense, he should firstly address Ceylon's posts, video's and his banning of anyone that does not agree with him.

Ceylon causes a lot of the problems on GOODF. Look at the fallout from his judgement explained video's - he has made everyone involved a laughing stock.

Jon should ban Ceylon with his multiple accounts for a week and see how much things calm down.

Just why ceylon posts from different accounts within moments is very strange. If a post comes from ceylon does if have less weight than a post from srilankac ?

Is Cpt.Kirk on goodf his son by any chance ?
I've no idea who Cpt.Kirk on goodf is.....

Maybe once things calm down things might start to change on goodf, but I have no idea if they will or not!

It certainly isn't easy running a forum with so many members and so few mods.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by midjit-gems »

wanglepin wrote:I am looking back on this headline published PUBLISHED: 14:48, 24 July 2014 and wondering how many of these "strangers" would actually supported Crawford had they known how devious Crawford was? Or had they known who was the driving force behind his campaign? And what kind of people they were all being manipulated by?
It’s A Wonderful Life! Heartwarming moment 200 strangers joined forces to stop cancer sufferer, 63, being evicted by bank after he lost battle over mortgage payments
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ments.html

Have you noticed in this one, I've read it previously and was shocked at the time, that tc says he was first alerted to the lack of ep in 2007!!!! More lies

I know many are now saying they wouldn't have gotten involved, myself being one. I went along now had I known the truth I most certainly wouldn't have
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by midjit-gems »

letissier14 wrote:
Bones wrote:
I do mean this with no disrespect. However, if Jon really wanted to calm things down and really wanted to appeal for common sense, he should firstly address Ceylon's posts, video's and his banning of anyone that does not agree with him.

Ceylon causes a lot of the problems on GOODF. Look at the fallout from his judgement explained video's - he has made everyone involved a laughing stock.

Jon should ban Ceylon with his multiple accounts for a week and see how much things calm down.

Just why ceylon posts from different accounts within moments is very strange. If a post comes from ceylon does if have less weight than a post from srilankac ?

Is Cpt.Kirk on goodf his son by any chance ?
I've no idea who Cpt.Kirk on goodf is.....

Maybe once things calm down things might start to change on goodf, but I have no idea if they will or not!

It certainly isn't easy running a forum with so many members and so few mods.

It's ripped apart many sites and many pages a lot now having a blanket ban on any posts regarding the subject. At least with the threads locked it's a happy medium??? I don't think anything will really help or be satisfactory to everyone right now. At least they are doing something I guess
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by littleFred »

Ceylon is in a difficult position. He lied when he said that Tom had won in court. After a swift U-turn, Ceylon then lied that it wasn't a real court at all.

I rarely accuse people of lying because there is always the possibility that they are mistaken or deluded or totally stupid. But I am convinced that Ceylon knew, and still knows, that a real court found against Tom.

I think even GOOFers can see this. They can see that the two videos "explaining" the court judgement were junk. Ceylon won't say, "Sorry, I got it wrong. Tom's house can now be repossessed." He can't refute anyone who says he got it wrong. So he has to suppress them. Unless he is online 24 hours a day, he can't cull off-dogma posts without some people seeing them.

He is effectively in charge of GOODF. So the obvious solution to his problem is to lock the forums. But the solution is temporary. GOOFers will ask why they are not allowed to discuss these important topics.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by NYGman »

midjit-gems wrote:It's ripped apart many sites and many pages a lot now having a blanket ban on any posts regarding the subject. At least with the threads locked it's a happy medium??? I don't think anything will really help or be satisfactory to everyone right now. At least they are doing something I guess
Something more idiotic that is. Locking the forum on TC and Were shows that they are unable to rebut even the simplest of questions with actual facts, logic or law. The fact that they choose the route of terminating free discussion to sustain their truth should be evidence that their positions are unsustainable. The truth, and the right answers can always sand up to critical review. If you can not convince a few doubters on a board, how will you ever convince a court or public opinion at large. Answer, you can't. Peer review is an important part of validating a theory. Let's take another area of study, Science.

If a Scientist said the earth was flat, and published a paper on that, you can bet other scientists would challenge this notion. There would be a debate, evidence would come out in support of both sides, and ultimately the field will come to a consensus, and additional papers on this will be issued, presenting this evidence.

GOOFy is telling everyone the earth is flat, and will not allow anyone to post a contrary position even if that post wold include data and photographs from satellites, earth bound measurement of curvature, or a paper from the scientific community stating the earth is round. How idiotic is that???

If the crew over there really believe they are correct, they should allow people to challenge them, in order to improve their position. Their policy to delete posts, and ban users ho disagree, does them no favors, and only serves to dumb down the conversations, and results in what I can only describe as a self-serving masturbatory fantasy, designed for the self-gratification of the posters on that site.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by rumpelstilzchen »

Like most sites of that nature they are run by control freaks.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by exiledscouser »

The reason both forums are locked down is that the end is in sight for both protagonists.

Tom will be out on his ear before too long which will blow all the previous posturing and nonsense out of the water. There will be some pretty angry folk who will realise it's less "A Wonderful Life" and more "True Lies".

The sound of the size tens striding down the corridor of a Travel Tavern "somewhere in the UK" is nigh as plod finally decide to feel Peter's collar for fraud. The WeRe bank seems to be pretty much a one man band and with him "assisting with enquiries" that'll be game over.

The thought of the two flagship Goodf promotions failing and failing hard will be difficult to recover from, reputationaly, even within the "alternative" fringe.

They know it's over - locking the forums is, in their parlance, acquiescence by silence.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by letissier14 »

rumpelstilzchen wrote:Like most sites of that nature they are run by control freaks.
Whilst I would agree with you in regards to lots of forums, I can assure you that Jon who owns GOODF is certainly not a control freak by any measure! Jon is pretty decent guy and it is obvious to me that he is simply trying to calm things down and if his decision is to lock the posts in question to calm things down, then that is his choice, whether it is right or wrong.

Not everyone on GOODF agrees with what everything is said and posted in the forum and there are plenty of educated people on the forum who are very knowledgeable and helpful.

I think people are concentrating so much on the "Ceylon bashing", that anyone who uses GOODF is being tarred with the same brush as Ceylon, which in my opinion is very unfair.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by rumpelstilzchen »

I can only go by what I have seen. Sure, disagreement is allowed on GOOFs but the one thing they will not tolerate is an attempt by a poster to debunk the GOOF rubbish. If what they promote is correct they should not fear debunkers. But they do. They ban them. That would not happen here.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by NYGman »

letissier14 wrote:
rumpelstilzchen wrote:Like most sites of that nature they are run by control freaks.
Whilst I would agree with you in regards to lots of forums, I can assure you that Jon who owns GOODF is certainly not a control freak by any measure! Jon is pretty decent guy and it is obvious to me that he is simply trying to calm things down and if his decision is to lock the posts in question to calm things down, then that is his choice, whether it is right or wrong.

Not everyone on GOODF agrees with what everything is said and posted in the forum and there are plenty of educated people on the forum who are very knowledgeable and helpful.

I think people are concentrating so much on the "Ceylon bashing", that anyone who uses GOODF is being tarred with the same brush as Ceylon, which in my opinion is very unfair.
While Ceylon is a major promoter there, many ideas promoted there have no legal basis and do not work. While I am sure debts have been written off as noncollectable, I can assure you it was not because of the 3/5 letter ploy, that the site is most known for. The Direct Debt Charge back scheme is another dubious idea, that while may result in cash returned, opens up exposure t the party you had originally paid. At the end of the day, many of the people who do these things have no money to start with, and you can't get blood from a stone as they say. They don;t mind the trade off, debt erased, credit in tatters.

In my mind, to make a causal connection between the advice given on GOOFy and the release of liability is tenuous at best. Can anyone point out any scheme on GOOFy that actually has a basis in law, and actually works (ie. debt deemed repaid, no credit impact). There are legitimate mistakes lenders and banks make, that can invalidate their claims, and that is a leal avenue to explore, but these issues are few and far between, they are the exception not the norm.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by PeanutGallery »

I actually can see it being entirely possible that Jon Witterick is not a control freak, in fact it may well be the case that he is in effect being controlled by Ceylon and to a certain extent allowing Ceylon too much latitude to promote the beliefs Ceylon has rather than to look at matters from an objective perspective.

I would also say that Jon is misguided as to how to deal with Debt and while I believe he may have started the site with good intentions and in a good faith attempt to help people deal with debt, the current format of the site is overly reliant on promoting various scams and schemes that have no basis in law.

Take a4v, it's a scam. It has a subforum dedicated to it on GOODF, that says if you don't know what you are doing don't try this, I believe that was authored by Ceylon, I would suggest that Ceylon doesn't really know what he is doing either.

Take the letters process, it doesn't lead to creditors erasing the debt, the debt still exists the damage to the credit rating still exists, however the use of them can up the stakes and leave a creditor questioning whether to pursue the amount owed and asking that if they do, will they recover anything or will they be throwing good money after bad.

The direct debit clawback could leave a lot of people in very serious trouble, with a possibility of fraud or even theft convictions.

You also have a thread posted by JimmyW in which he openly admits to perjury and encourages others to do the same.

The problem is that these posts and these practices have the same level of credence and significance (if not moreso) than other parts of the site. I am sure if someone suggested on GOODF that you could deal with debt by agreeing a repayment plan with your creditors and offering them an amount you could afford, it would be shouted down by someone claiming that you didn't need to pay them anything if you followed magic incantation number 39. That is the problem with the site. At times it seems the crazier the idea, the more passionately it is promoted and the more the vehement is the reaction to any critic of it.

Jon Witterick seems to have little to no active involvement or control over the site, it's pretty much the Ceylon show and I would suggest that he had more than a hand in the recent appointments of new moderators. Dealing with debt isn't a bed of roses, it's much more thorny, and uncomfortable especially because it seems the norm that the person you owe money to has considerably more than you may ever hope to amass.

However dealing with debt is part of being responsible in society. Yes, sometimes loans companies, banks and other organisations take advantage of people at the low income end of the scale and yes these practices should be curtailed or stopped and yes, to an extent the attitude of a modern consumer society is in part to blame for creating a societal pressure that almost demands people enter into debt.

But while that recognises that debt is a problem, it doesn't lead to a solution other than to offer the simple advice of try to pay it, if you can't talk to the person you owe and see what can be agreed, they might be more helpful than you think and might even be willing to write off portions of a debt or even the totality if you approach them and the problem sensibly.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by letissier14 »

NYGman wrote:While Ceylon is a major promoter there, many ideas promoted there have no legal basis and do not work. While I am sure debts have been written off as noncollectable, I can assure you it was not because of the 3/5 letter ploy, that the site is most known for. The Direct Debt Charge back scheme is another dubious idea, that while may result in cash returned, opens up exposure t the party you had originally paid. At the end of the day, many of the people who do these things have no money to start with, and you can't get blood from a stone as they say. They don;t mind the trade off, debt erased, credit in tatters.

In my mind, to make a causal connection between the advice given on GOOFy and the release of liability is tenuous at best. Can anyone point out any scheme on GOOFy that actually has a basis in law, and actually works (ie. debt deemed repaid, no credit impact). There are legitimate mistakes lenders and banks make, that can invalidate their claims, and that is a leal avenue to explore, but these issues are few and far between, they are the exception not the norm.
The 3 letters: Asking a debt collector to prove they have the legal right to collect on a debt certainly does a have a legal basis and does work. Whilst I agree that many of the debts are simply written off as noncollectable, there are also many debts that they are unable to chase because they have no right to chase them in law.

As for people's credit being left in tatters, this can be sorted especially if the debt collector or original creditor has failed to provide evidence that they can collect on the debt or have failed to follow procedures. I personally have removed 9 defaults from my credit file.

Another reason why so many people find sites like GOODF is because they are so fed up in the way that the banks are run and how they abuse their positions. One simple mistake (often not even your own fault) can lead to a default being placed on your credit file which could effect your ability to get any future credit for 6 years, or worse still, stop you being able to find a certain job or even rent privately. There have been so many cases of wrong credit reporting by financial institutions it is quite scary. You can visit places like CAB etc but they wont show you how to try and repair your credit file.

Direct Debit Chargeback: Whilst I have seen this abused on one particular site and people claiming back money when they shouldn't, the whole point of the chargeback is to be able to claim back your money when it has been taken wrongly, which happens far too much and often leaves people worse off and sometimes overdrawn, resulting in bank charges which then creates a chain reaction that can result in other bills not being paid and charges added to those bills, and then even more bank charges added to that, so it is hardly a dubious idea.

Everything is not black and white and without sites like GOODF etc, so many more people would be in dire situations. You might not agree with what GOODF stands for, but I have seen how it has changed people's lives, people who were on the verge of suicide, people who were afraid to answer the door, people who were scared to open letters or to answer the phone, people who were giving up. GOODF has changed peoples lives for the better and yes there have been loses and stupid cases like Tom Crawford, but there is a bigger picture to be seen.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by letissier14 »

PeanutGallery wrote:
However dealing with debt is part of being responsible in society. Yes, sometimes loans companies, banks and other organisations take advantage of people at the low income end of the scale and yes these practices should be curtailed or stopped and yes, to an extent the attitude of a modern consumer society is in part to blame for creating a societal pressure that almost demands people enter into debt.

I agree with you there. My mum had money thrown at her by Barclays Bank to such an extent that she owed them £39k despite being a pensioner with only a basic pension and no other income and no assets whatsoever! Virtually 75% of her pension was going on paying them back, which resulted in me having to pay for her to go bankrupt. She actually phoned them up one month to say she couldn't afford her monthly card payment, and what did they do? They increased her limit - utter madness


But while that recognises that debt is a problem, it doesn't lead to a solution other than to offer the simple advice of try to pay it, if you can't talk to the person you owe and see what can be agreed, they might be more helpful than you think and might even be willing to write off portions of a debt or even the totality if you approach them and the problem sensibly.

That seems to be a big problem in my experience. Many creditors, especially debt collectors are not interested in coming to an agreement with you especially if it is only for a few pound per month. They want as much as possible and don't really care about your circumstances. They harass people and abuse their positions, preying on the vulnerable and peoples lack of knowledge!


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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by Normal Wisdom »

Just before we complete the sanctification of Jon Witterick, it's worth remembering that he is responsible for some of the core lunacy that drove the development of FoTL thinking in this country (see links below). He may not have much involvement in the GOODF site now but he chose the leave it in the hands of Mark "Ceylon" Haining and I am sure still benefits from it.

However, well meaning some of the individual GOODF moderators or members are they are supporting something that positively advocates strategies that could cause people to end up in greater debt, in the street and in prison. That is to say nothing of blatant and routine anti-semitism which goes completely unchallenged (and is even encouraged) by the moderators and owners of the site. And all the time it is run on a day to day basis by Ceylon it is forever linked to the myriad of stupid, offensive and downright lunatic ideas that he espouses in his YouTube videos and which he uses GOODF to promote.

I get really tired of the idea that people turn to GOODF because they have nowhere else to go to with their debt problems. There are plenty of reputable strategies and resources available. However, unlike GOODF they won't tell people that they can easily shirk all responsibilities which seems to me to be it's main attraction.

I'm certainly not going to soften my opinion on GOODF. I don't think "well maybe they have a point". If they (very) occasionally touch on a useful fact it is by accident rather than design. It is a dangerous site, run by dangerous people and offering dangerous advice.

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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by longdog »

letissier14 wrote:The 3 letters: Asking a debt collector to prove they have the legal right to collect on a debt certainly does a have a legal basis and does work. Whilst I agree that many of the debts are simply written off as noncollectable, there are also many debts that they are unable to chase because they have no right to chase them in law.
But that's not what the '3 letters' process as pushed on goofy does. Their letters are full of bullshit demands which the creditor can largely ignore.

Direct Debit Chargeback: Whilst I have seen this abused on one particular site and people claiming back money when they shouldn't, the whole point of the chargeback is to be able to claim back your money when it has been taken wrongly, which happens far too much and often leaves people worse off and sometimes overdrawn, resulting in bank charges which then creates a chain reaction that can result in other bills not being paid and charges added to those bills, and then even more bank charges added to that, so it is hardly a dubious idea.
I've seen it being abused too. On goofy where people are being egged on to fraudulently reclaim money that has not been wrongly paid.


Everything is not black and white and without sites like GOODF etc, so many more people would be in dire situations. You might not agree with what GOODF stands for, but I have seen how it has changed people's lives, people who were on the verge of suicide, people who were afraid to answer the door, people who were scared to open letters or to answer the phone, people who were giving up. GOODF has changed peoples lives for the better and yes there have been loses and stupid cases like Tom Crawford, but there is a bigger picture to be seen.
The whole tone of goofy is that you can avoid / wipe out debts by using arcane methods which are idiotic, often illegal and quite simply don't work. Any site which promotes A4V, copyrighting your name and the WeRe bank cannot be trusted on anything.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by rumpelstilzchen »

One thing I would like to know is why do the GOOFs believe they have the right to an unlimited supply of electricity, gas and water piped directly into their homes free of charge? Do they think the thousands of people who work in those industries should be made to work full-time providing a service with no pay?
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by #six »

longdog wrote:
letissier14 wrote:The 3 letters: Asking a debt collector to prove they have the legal right to collect on a debt certainly does a have a legal basis and does work. Whilst I agree that many of the debts are simply written off as noncollectable, there are also many debts that they are unable to chase because they have no right to chase them in law.
But that's not what the '3 letters' process as pushed on goofy does. Their letters are full of bullshit demands which the creditor can largely ignore.

Direct Debit Chargeback: Whilst I have seen this abused on one particular site and people claiming back money when they shouldn't, the whole point of the chargeback is to be able to claim back your money when it has been taken wrongly, which happens far too much and often leaves people worse off and sometimes overdrawn, resulting in bank charges which then creates a chain reaction that can result in other bills not being paid and charges added to those bills, and then even more bank charges added to that, so it is hardly a dubious idea.
I've seen it being abused too. On goofy where people are being egged on to fraudulently reclaim money that has not been wrongly paid.


Everything is not black and white and without sites like GOODF etc, so many more people would be in dire situations. You might not agree with what GOODF stands for, but I have seen how it has changed people's lives, people who were on the verge of suicide, people who were afraid to answer the door, people who were scared to open letters or to answer the phone, people who were giving up. GOODF has changed peoples lives for the better and yes there have been loses and stupid cases like Tom Crawford, but there is a bigger picture to be seen.
The whole tone of goofy is that you can avoid / wipe out debts by using arcane methods which are idiotic, often illegal and quite simply don't work. Any site which promotes A4V, copyrighting your name and the WeRe bank cannot be trusted on anything.
You're 100% right. There is a big difference between someone trying to stop collection of invalid debts or someone trying to legally get them self out of a hole caused by debts and those who try and get out of paying their debts that they legally owe.

The latter are just thieving scum IMO
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by wanglepin »

letissier14 wrote:Not everyone on GOODF agrees with what everything is said and posted in the forum
Platinum starred mods you mean. Yes they seem to be the only one's who survive when going against the grain.
letissier14 wrote:I think people are concentrating so much on the "Ceylon bashing", that anyone who uses GOODF is being tarred with the same brush as Ceylon, which in my opinion is very unfair.
We don't really get to read anything from those "being tarred with the same brush" do we?
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by JonnyL »

I've got to say I do know people who've been successful with the 3 letters and 'zero balance', interestingly though most of them have been with Lowells who've purchased the debt, and they've had defaults removed from their credit rating too. As for anything else A4V etc I think it's pure pie in the sky stuff. The DD clawbacks are morally wrong unless there is a just reason to do it, but I've seen scores of people last year just wading into that scheme because it put money in their bank regardless of the consequences, TVL is the main one for it. There's been a few who've had their bank accounts frozen for suspected fraud because od DD clawbacks too. BTBATB is a terrible FB page, the amount of people who advise people to ignore parking tickets, ignore claim forms from northampton etc is frightening, and ignoring stuff is how dear old Tom got into his mess.
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Re: UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

Post by TrialbySocialMedia »

letissier14 wrote:
I think people are concentrating so much on the "Ceylon bashing", that anyone who uses GOODF is being tarred with the same brush as Ceylon, which in my opinion is very unfair.
I personally think that Ceylon has overstepped the Mark by sharing the delusion crap that Watson posted. I have commented my disgust on his channels over the last two days too.

I don't know the guy personally other than to say hi to but he has surprised me just lately with his attacks on those who disagree with their delusional understanding of the judgement.