Zeke_the_Meek wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:47 pm
All joking aside, it feels like we're literally watching a manslaughter unfold in real time.
This ^.
Without treatment EWE is going to live, what, 3-6 months? Neeloonie's description when translated into reality sounds like a normal attempt to do a psychiatric and medical assessment of EWE. The health authority will now have to decide whether to Section him on the basis of what happened in that attempted interview IMHO. They can't carry out an assessment with Neeloonie present and joining in either.
"There is something about true madness that goes beyond mere eccentricity." Will Self
exiledscouser wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:11 pm
However, it suits her narrative to claim the test results have been fabricated.
Which is all Neelu cares about. Me, me, me, I, I, I. My house was seized. My sister's baby died. My father died. I did this. I did that. Ellis barely rates a mention in his own obituary.
ArthurWankspittle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:28 pm
Without treatment EWE is going to live, what, 3-6 months?
I don't think it's anywhere near that long if it's acute kidney failure. More like days to weeks.
They can't carry out an assessment with Neeloonie present and joining in either.
I'm 100% certain that will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances and if she kicks off she'll either be thrown out or arrested or sectioned herself or some combination of those. For one thing she's not next of kin and for another there's no right to have a relative present at a Section 135/136 assessment.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
They can't carry out an assessment with Neeloonie present and joining in either.
I'm 100% certain that will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances and if she kicks off she'll either be thrown out or arrested or sectioned herself or some combination of those. For one thing she's not next of kin and for another there's no right to have a relative present at a Section 135/136 assessment.
That is true as far as the assessment is concerned because that is a strict professional interaction, in the same way that not even next of kin has the "right" to be present in the operating theatre during an operation.
However, for every other interaction, Ellis can give permission for anyone to be present. So unless he is sectioned (and I don't think even with the delusion so far displayed he has reached that legal threshold) he can give Neelu permission to be present during all his treatment plan meetings. That we think he is mentally ill does not come into it.
The bottom line is, in the UK if a patient does not want to be treated, they don't have to be and it would be illegal to do so even if it means a negative outcome.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - Hanlon's Razor
AnOwlCalledSage wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:39 pm
The bottom line is, in the UK if a patient does not want to be treated, they don't have to be and it would be illegal to do so even if it means a negative outcome.
That only applies where a person is legally capable of giving or withholding informed consent. I would say that Ellis is clearly not in that category. I would say he is sufficiently delusional that he doesn't understand the consequences of his refusal and he doesn't have the capacity to realise Neelu is insane and leading him down a very short path to destruction.
If the requirement for a section is that somebody is so mentally disturbed that they are a danger to themselves or others then he obviously qualifies.
If 'they' decide to section him and treat him for physical and mental illness to save his life until he is sufficiently competent to refuse dialysis I don't see any legal problem.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
Perhaps I lack the empathy needed to work in medicine, but if I ran into this clownshow my response would be "You don't want treatment? Fine, you're going to die in a month. Now both of you get the fuck out of my examining room, there are other people who want and need my help."
TheNewSaint wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:32 pm
Perhaps I lack the empathy needed to work in medicine, but if I ran into this clownshow my response would be "You don't want treatment? Fine, you're going to die in a month. Now both of you get the fuck out of my examining room, there are other people who want and need my help."
I am of course talking about what our highly trained public health staff should do. My personal attitude would be pretty much the same as yours.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
Does this mean she has several fathers, in different colours?
She got the whole Crayola 64 of dads.
And more voices in her head than that.
Supreme Commander of The Imperial Illuminati Air Force
Your concern is duly noted, filed, folded, stamped, sealed with wax and affixed with a thumbprint in red ink, forgotten, recalled, considered, reconsidered, appealed, denied and quietly ignored.
AnOwlCalledSage wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:39 pm
The bottom line is, in the UK if a patient does not want to be treated, they don't have to be and it would be illegal to do so even if it means a negative outcome.
That only applies where a person is legally capable of giving or withholding informed consent. I would say that Ellis is clearly not in that category. I would say he is sufficiently delusional that he doesn't understand the consequences of his refusal and he doesn't have the capacity to realise Neelu is insane and leading him down a very short path to destruction.
If the requirement for a section is that somebody is so mentally disturbed that they are a danger to themselves or others then he obviously qualifies.
If 'they' decide to section him and treat him for physical and mental illness to save his life until he is sufficiently competent to refuse dialysis I don't see any legal problem.
The 'gimme' here is not whether or not EWE meets a legal threshold. But I can see a very good legal argument that Princess WOOLU has crossed the "dangerous to....others" threshold and its time to section her.
Supreme Commander of The Imperial Illuminati Air Force
Your concern is duly noted, filed, folded, stamped, sealed with wax and affixed with a thumbprint in red ink, forgotten, recalled, considered, reconsidered, appealed, denied and quietly ignored.
Gregg wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:35 pm
The 'gimme' here is not whether or not EWE meets a legal threshold. But I can see a very good legal argument that Princess WOOLU has crossed the "dangerous to....others" threshold and its time to section her.
The problem with that theory is we won't have the resources to apply to identify this until EWE is dead. c.f. Dead abused children and overworked social workers. (Baby P in Haringey is obvious example). Or maybe this is a variant of Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy.
"There is something about true madness that goes beyond mere eccentricity." Will Self
START
I want you to be seen by, I think you should be seen by the psychiatric services here.
I refuse
Yes but at the moment these processes are not absolutely not going to recognise....
They've screwed up
I'm not going to argue with you. I'd rather, What I am saying is, all I want to do...
I am giving Notice to Parliament
I'm not interested, I am saying
I'll finish
Please, I'm saying I'm not interested, I'm not interested
I am saying for you to have a mental health assessment
A decision is being made this week, I will finish the grounds this week
KNOCK KNOCK [Neelu has sneaked into a secure area, before the Secure corridor door closes and overhears "Mental Health Assessment" through the Consultation Room Secure door and turns on to record the consultation then knocks at the door to enter - audio proves a Kill Decision of Mr Ellis in a Mental Health Fraud over a false Kidney Diagnosis]
Sorry, Hi,
Hello
Do Sit down
Who are you
I'm with Edward
This is Neelu Berry
Oh Hello! Hi
She has consent to sit
Hi I'm Dr Lever I am a kidney Consultant
Hi
So what I am saying is, what I am saying to Edward is that he has, so I have received correspondence from his GP, and I've also received correspondence from doctor Madiemet McGordon who was one of his consultants when he was seen at the Royal Sussex County in Brighton in March 2019. Dr Gordon dr Bukhari and myself have concerns
1. About Edwards kidney failure OK
Right
Because Edward does have kidney failure in terms of his kidney function is less than 10% of what it should be. So Edward is at the level where we need to think about starting dialysis treatment
Can you show me the tests that you've done
So I've got all the tests over here.
This is the creatinine level. The creatinine level today is 791
And can I see that it is his blood test and not somebody else's blood test
This is his address Edward Ellis
Ok
Alright
It's been around that time. He's just started a lot of activities with the swimming and walking
I just swam 36 lengths on Friday
His Creatinine was 686 in March and now it's 791. The normal level for someone like Edward would be less than 90
Yeah but He is very fit for his age, he's not a very good drinker, he's been dehydrated because he doesn't drink very well
Right ok so this is going to be very helpful
What I want to do is I would like to admit Edward to hospital today in order for us to review both the requirements and both how we logistically can start dialysis treatment
What he would like is an independent second opinion
So he has been seen by Dr McGordon
Please let us cut to the chase on this
mmm
I need to give priority to the next communications for the lord Bishops I will do that tonight.
Right so he will come back tomorrow
What you need to know is there are many Doctors who are subject to Disclosure restraint frauds
Edward I think we should just walk out of here, we don't require your services
But you do require our services
We don't
Neelu
I am the clinical lead of kidney services in this Hospital
But you are outside your remit with the mental health
No no no no, I know I am, I know I am, absolutely, and I agree with that I agree with that I completely agree with that in terms of the
It's that conflict that you've abused and we are not interested in your services
No please allow me to conduct
Allow me to speak please
What I am saying is what I would like to do in order to deal with this and as you are quite right I am not a mental health specialist at all
And you've got no delusion evidence
No
In which case what are you doing requiring mental services with a delusion deficit
Because of the fact that you've been labelled as having that historically so I would like to
Yes and that has been subject to a blackmail criminal investigation
All I was asking for was
No no no, you have taken crime proceeds and said that you want to use them for medical purposes. That's what you've done
All I'm saying that I would welcome a further assessment by somebody
You are not having, you are enforcing a mental health fraud which itself was crime proceeds, that ends.
I've started a new assessment
That is not a new assessment
It's the first time, I haven't met you before
What you haven't done is asked for any of the evidence to support my position
I am asking simply
No no It is how they run the frauds is they ignore the evidence of the citizen and just decide..
Right I'm going to get somebody else in here
No we are going
Edward lets go
You cannot be trusted with the process. I have to write the next set of Communications to the lord Bishops tonight
Dr LEVER PRESSES AN ALARM BUTTON
Can I have somebody else in here please
Let me have the written evidence on which you rely
Edward Edward
Come back and sit down again
No
Lets go
You are going down for this
Edward stop it
Hi my name is Dr [Irish accent doctor 45 years old 6ft 2"]
I told you they were going to do this to you, Edward, you're not listening to me
Please allow me to conduct
I am fed up
Please stop its just me
We don't require your services
No I don't care who you are
Just stop and talk to me
You don't know what you're letting yourself in to
Just stop and talk to me
No because you're going to lose your job and I don't want you to.
Stop You can walk with me
Just stop and talk to me
No
Go back to Ireland it's a lot safer, its a lot safer
If we could have a chat
Come this way please Edward Edward
Go back to Ireland
Stop and chat to me
Go back to Ireland
Lets get on a bus, they're going to try and catch you
END
Because of the fact that you've been labelled as having [mental health problems] historically so I would like to...
Now that's a new piece of information thanks to Neelu's oversharing!
Note: a section 5(2) detainment does not have to be a mental health specialist. It is a temporary 72 hour hold, but the actual referral would be triggered immediately. As a lawyer , I'm sure EWE knows that.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - Hanlon's Razor
Yes and that has been subject to a blackmail criminal investigation
All I was asking for was
No no no, you have taken crime proceeds and said that you want to use them for medical purposes. That's what you've done
So a previous mental health assessment conducted on Neelu is now part of a 'criminal investigation' due to her calling 'blackmail'. Very interesting oversharing by Neelu...
Yes and that has been subject to a blackmail criminal investigation
All I was asking for was
No no no, you have taken crime proceeds and said that you want to use them for medical purposes. That's what you've done
So a previous mental health assessment conducted on Neelu is now part of a 'criminal investigation' due to her calling 'blackmail'. Very interesting oversharing by Neelu...
If you run that trough a De-Neeluating filter I think it's probably just meaningless jabber.
JULIAN: I recommend we try Per verulium ad camphorum actus injuria linctus est.
SANDY: That's your actual Latin.
HORNE: What does it mean?
JULIAN: I dunno - I got it off a bottle of horse rub, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
I read that as Neelu saying that the "Blackmail Criminal Investigation" is one she filed in order to do advance the cause, expose the conspiracy and make her the hero of the story. I didn't watch the video, is that the Doctor speaking?
Supreme Commander of The Imperial Illuminati Air Force
Your concern is duly noted, filed, folded, stamped, sealed with wax and affixed with a thumbprint in red ink, forgotten, recalled, considered, reconsidered, appealed, denied and quietly ignored.
No, you have that right. The Doctor says the line that EWE has a historical mental competence investigation. Neelu says it is the subject of a blackmail remedy bollocksy load of crap investigation.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity - Hanlon's Razor
exiledscouser wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:11 pm
However, it suits her narrative to claim the test results have been fabricated.
Which is all Neelu cares about. Me, me, me, I, I, I. My house was seized. My sister's baby died. My father died. I did this. I did that. Ellis barely rates a mention in his own obituary.
Indeed. Myself and Hucknall both commented on her post stressing that they postpone the nonsense for just one moment and take Ellis' health emergency with the seriousness that it deserves, but naturally she spouted a load of shite about fake test results and fake doctors and "he just needs to drink more water" and her neice's death etc etc before blocking me. The last thing I saw before the boot was her little acolytes suggesting that my mind was rotted from drinking too much flouride.
Indeed, I haven't been back since she said something about a mental health person posing as a kidney specialist. I think I used the words 'beyond help' in relation to her.
I wonder if Neelu got herself added to Ellis' will, or otherwise stands to benefit financially from his death.
I don't really think that - Neelu seems to have inherited several valuable London properties, and Ellis seems to be skint - but she's so eager to deny him medical treatment that it ought to be suspicious.
, I'm sure EWE knows that.