Ron Van Dyke : The REAL Man of La Mancha

[LightinDarkness]

So let me ensure I've got things right...

- RVD gets has had not one, but two open heart surgeries over the past 15 or so years. Each one has been successful.
- RVD has been in the hospital this time around more than a month, and despite the fact that he doesn't work or have any money hes been given top quality round-the-clock medical care.
- RVD claims that the medical establishment is a giant conspiracy designed to kill you and/or take all of your money.

Which one of these things is not like the other?

[Gregg]

The fact that neither the Dragon Family, nor Mr Sino of Swissindo stepped forward to give Ron financial assistance when he was in the hospital and asked for financial help does show, I think, that neither of them are for real.

Ya think?




Please don't tell me this was the final straw that convinced you. If you believed, even just for a moment, that it was even possible for ANY of this stuff to be real, then you're the exact kind fo sucker these low level con men are counting on the be around when they come up with the next play.

[Gregg]

So let me ensure I've got things right...

- RVD gets has had not one, but two open heart surgeries over the past 15 or so years. Each one has been successful.
- RVD has been in the hospital this time around more than a month, and despite the fact that he doesn't work or have any money hes been given top quality round-the-clock medical care.
- RVD claims that the medical establishment is a giant conspiracy designed to kill you and/or take all of your money.

Which one of these things is not like the other?

They're keeping him alive just to harvest a secret virus from him. Once they can find a vaccine to cure it and a way to make everyone else get it so they can sell the vaccine, he's a dead man.

[notorial dissent]

Does this mean they're working on a cure for terminal or near terminal stupidity? Somehow, I think the experiment was a failure.

[DailyPlanet]

"If you believed, even just for a moment, that it was even possible for ANY of this stuff to be real, then you're the exact kind fo sucker these low level con men are counting on the be around when they come up with the next play...."

Hey, hold your horses!
Some parts of this story are confirmed to be real:

+ There ARE Gold bonds with huge denominations, which appear to be fake
+ Various people have used these bonds to try to raise money from the unwary, triggering arrests and feeding rumors
+ There are people claiming to be associated with a "Dragon family", who hold bonds, or have been attracted to this story
+ Dr Joseph P Farrell, a former academic, and a respected researcher has discussed the evidence for what he calls "A secret system of finance"

If you haven't seen them already, you may want to watch these two Videos:

1 /Joseph P Farrell at the Secret Space Program Conference, 2014 San Mateo (presentation 1) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1svGIBKaE_0

2 / The Dragon Gold Family may be Lost - & Ben Fulford Summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJGiCrU8Z4A

[Gregg]

"If you believed, even just for a moment, that it was even possible for ANY of this stuff to be real, then you're the exact kind fo sucker these low level con men are counting on the be around when they come up with the next play...."

Hey, hold your horses!
Some parts of this story are confirmed to be real:by certified lunatics and liars

+ There ARE Gold bonds with huge denominations, which appear to be fake
Not appear to be fake, they're fake. Even if they were "gold bonds" all gold terms were rendered moot by the actions of the Treasury in 1933 after Roosevelt called in the gold.. but again, NO SUCH BONDS WERE EVER ISSUED

+ Various people have used these bonds to try to raise money from the unwary, triggering arrests and feeding rumors
SO, crooks latch unto the big lie, where's the story here?


+ There are people claiming to be associated with a "Dragon family", who hold bonds, or have been attracted to this story
Some of them are the same people claiming to be associated with the aliens secretly orbiting earth in Starship Capricorn...really


+ Dr Joseph P Farrell, a former academic, and a respected researcher has discussed the evidence for what he calls "A secret system of finance"

Here, hold my drink while I fall off my chair laughing

If you haven't seen them already, you may want to watch these two Videos:

1 /Joseph P Farrell at the Secret Space Program Conference, 2014 San Mateo (presentation 1) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1svGIBKaE_0

2 / The Dragon Gold Family may be Lost - & Ben Fulford Summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJGiCrU8Z4A

You just made my point, you know that, don't you?

[DailyPlanet]

I think you do not "get" how to investigate cases like this.

You can not start off thinking "this is all fake". If you do that, you get stuck inside the mainstream mindset. That is stupid. The media lies to us about so many things... as Edward Snowden exposed, and so may subsequent stories, like that of Brian Williams and many others have shown. You have to approach the story with an open mind, and look for internal inconsistencies.

Instead, you examine the story and see what the evidence shows. That's why it is worthwhile to listen to someone like Dr Joseph Farrell, who approaches these stories with an open mind, and see what evidence he has come up with. That's a good starting point. Farrell gives his reasons for believing there is a "hidden system of finance." Others, like Catherine Austin-Fitts and Richard Dolan back up parts of Farrell's interpretation. If you are not familiar with these people and their ideas, you should look into it. Or at least keep and open mind until you have time to do that.

You say things like:
"NO SUCH BONDS WERE EVER ISSUED"
Where's your evidence? It is pretty hard to prove a negative.
I think it is possible, even likely, that some people who were pretending to represent the US Treasury, or the Fed, (or a faction inside it) went around Asia, exchanging fraudulent bonds for Gold held by Asians who were nervous that the gold that had would be confiscated by the Japanese, or Chinese communists.

That's the sort of comment that Farrell makes. And he also talks about what the Gold that was taken in such a way might be used for.

[LightinDarkness]

I think you do not "get" how to investigate cases like this
You can not start off thinking "this is all fake". If you do that, you get stuck inside the mainstream mindset. That is stupid. The media lies to us about so many things... as Edward Snowden exposed, and so may subsequent stories, like that of Brian Williams and many others have shown. You have to approach the story with an open mind, and look for internal inconsistencies.

Actually, the problem is you don't understand how to "investigate" things like this. You are engaging in the conspiracy theorist fallacy of giving equal weight to all possibilities. For example, we have two options when it comes to The Ambassador:

(1) The Ambassador is a real representative of a family that controls more wealth than every other nation combined. Despite the fact that with that kind of money they could buy CNN tomorrow and start broadcasting the "truth," the Ambassador spends time talking to thousands of new agers/prosperity cultists who just so happen to want to hear exactly what he is telling them. And even though he could afford to ameliorate the problems of all the people he comes into contact with, because hes got trillions, he instead chooses to ask his followers for money to consider their business plans for "humanitarian projects."

(2) The Ambassador is a role player who gets off on having the new agers/prosperity cult worship him, or is mentally delusional. There is no dragon family, no vast sums of wealth. The Ambassador goes on these small prosperity cult shows because it is the only one stupid enough to listen to him. The Ambassador asks his followers for money because he has no money, and these people are dumb enough to believe if they give him the cash they'll somehow get a funded "humanitarian project" where they can assign themselves a huge salary.

As a conspiracy theorist, you give equal weight to options 1 or 2. But if you engage in critical thinking and skepticism, you actually assign to each option a probability that is supported by the evidence. The evidence is 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% in favor of option 2. The remainder is option 1. From that, we can deduce with a great deal of certainty that this is all fake and made up stuff by insane people.

By the way, all those events you mentioned? None of them were outed by your fellow "truth seekers." All of them were well established by that terrible mainstream media you don't like. The New York Times, for example, had reported for years on the kind of stuff Ed Snowden released.

[Gregg]

I can prove that no such bonds were ever issued, Sparky, because believe it or not all that pesky paperwork that goes into registering bonds is all kept somewhere safe, at the very least until every last penny is paid, and really, forever or as near to is as matters. Every single debt issued by the United States of America including the money the Continental Congress borrowed to finance the American Revolution is recorded at the Treasury. Look it up! Even the mainstream media has it!

As to your theory that "maybe some people went trogging around Asia conning people into giving their gold to them in exchange for US Bonds, hell, that's more than likely true. But the stories of thieves tell their marks is hardly the same thing as those admittedly fake bonds being negotiable now. They're not, because they're FAKE.

Dr Joseph Farrell has a doctorate in Theology and believes the Pyramids at Giza are alien technology, among other, ahem, strange beliefs. Just on general knowledge I don't share his views on bronze age alien weaponry and as far as his banking and financial credentials go, well, my doctorate is in International Business and one of my Master's degrees is in Economics, so I think I'll go with my own background on that. A position I make it a policy to adhere to regarding anyone who is a regular guest on Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey.

Another point I might make is it would take a pretty stupid con man to go trying to get Asians to try to protect their gold from government seizure by moving it to the USA pretty much the months after the US seized the private gold of all US Citizens, a move that pretty much everyone on the planet with more gold than family jewelry would have known in the 1930s.

But, and this you can find out in the mainstream media, too, finally, it is impossible for anyone to have a fraction of the gold these scammers claim to have. No sovereign nation has even a large fraction of that much gold, and in fact all the gold ever mined in human history isn't as much as these guys say that have hidden in (I would guess a pretty large) safety deposit box.

Look it up...all the world's gold would fit in 3 and a half olympic sized swimming pools. The total amount of gold in the world - the gold above ground, that is - could fit into a cube with sides of just 20m (67ft)

You are easily fooled and easily impressed the headlines of stories and never bother to look at the details. Brian Williams "rounding up the truth" isn't the same as NBC being involved in a conspiracy to hide the FEMA death camps from us.

I have an open mind, you, sir, have an empty mind.

[LightinDarkness]

That's why it is worthwhile to listen to someone like Dr Joseph Farrell, who approaches these stories with an open mind, and see what evidence he has come up with. That's a good starting point. Farrell gives his reasons for believing there is a "hidden system of finance."

Again, its kind of funny (sad? tragic?) that you think people like this are "worthwhile to listen to." Farrell has a PhD in THEOLOGY, he has absolutely no expertise on finance. He is hawking his PhD as if it means something because he knows some people are dumb enough to think merely possessing a PhD makes you qualified in everything. The truth is exactly the opposite: PhD training gives you a great deal of expertise in a VERY SMALL subject area. In his case, theology - specifically the theology of the early Christian church fathers.

If he were to be talking about theology in the early Christian church, I could see giving him the benefit of the doubt and listening. But then I would also have to compare what he is saying to other theology experts within the same area. Its the same thing: when 1 million experts say X and 1 expert says Y, giving equal time to Y is a conspiracy theorist fallacy.

[LightinDarkness]

Dr Joseph Farrell has a doctorate in Theology and believes the Pyramids at Giza are alien technology, among other, ahem, strange beliefs. Just on general knowledge I don't share his views on bronze age alien weaponry and as far as his banking and financial credentials go, well, my doctorate is in International Business and one of my Master's degrees is in Economics, so I think I'll go with my own background on that. A position I make it a policy to adhere to regarding anyone who is a regular guest on Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey.

The great irony here is he is going to ignore everything your saying, even though you actually HAVE THE CREDENTIALS to talk about it. And the fact that the consensus is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% on your side.

By the way, what did you do with your PhD? I'm thinking of quitting mine because I am beginning to despise academia's publish or perish treadmill. Im in policy though, so I already have a masters (in this field the masters are considered professional terminal degrees)....I wouldn't even get a consolation prize masters if I quit. But I could then get a public sector job free of the publish or perish treadmill, which is...very appealing right now.

[Gregg]

First, the US Government took all the gold belonging to US Citizens...


And they paid $20.67 / oz for it. Then, the siad it was worth $35 / oz when using it to pay international creditors, a deal they made quite a few dollars on by the way...

And then, they made illegal what was at the time a fairly common clause in contracts that stipulated payment was to be made in gold coin or bullion, converting all said contracts still outstanding payable in "Lawful Money" which gives the Sui Juris and Savings to Suitors crowd chills of excitement to this very day.

[wserra]

By the way, what did you do with your PhD?

He made transmissions. And gezunteh gelt.

[Gregg]

By the way, what did you do with your PhD? I'm thinking of quitting mine because I am beginning to despise academia's publish or perish treadmill..

I'm a transmission mechanic....well and over glorified, but I build cars.

I work for Ford, who paid for my MBA and my doctorate. I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland when I was working on my first Master's. Before that I was in the Army where I severely underused my much lauded Ivy league degree in Mathematics by flying eggbeaters mostly around Central America, "killing commie's for Ron Reagan!"

(think Slim Pickens at the end of Blazing Saddles)

[Gregg]

By the way, what did you do with your PhD?

He made transmissions. And gezunteh gelt.

Okay, I know its Yiddish, but a little help for the goyem?

[wserra]

It's actually a Yiddish pun in the context of this conversation. "Gezunt" means "health", "gezunteh" means "healthy", but is sometimes used to mean "a lot" - as in English ("a healthy amount"). "Gelt" literally means "gold", but is very commonly used to mean "money". So you were posting about gold, but "gezunteh gelt" in this context means "a lot of money".

Impressed?

[wserra]

BTW, I'm the token goy in my office. You just can't be a lawyer in NY for as long as I have and not pick up some Yiddish.

[Gregg]

Yes, both with the yiddish and the context. I have managed to make a little bit more than a sustenance income over the years, a little know how, a little intuition and a fair amount of luck.

I didn't get so much Yiddish in Argillite, Kentucky. Shoes and Jews were kind of rare if you know what I mean.

[noblepa]

First, the US Government took all the gold belonging to US Citizens...


And they paid $20.67 / oz for it. Then, the siad it was worth $35 / oz when using it to pay international creditors, a deal they made quite a few dollars on by the way...

And then, they made illegal what was at the time a fairly common clause in contracts that stipulated payment was to be made in gold coin or bullion, converting all said contracts still outstanding payable in "Lawful Money" which gives the Sui Juris and Savings to Suitors crowd chills of excitement to this very day.

There's an office building here in Cleveland that was built prior to 1933, the Halle Building. (Gregg, you probably know where it is, since you worked for the Fed, which is just a few blocks away). Incidentally, this is the building after which Halle Berry is named. Anyway, the original contract to lease it contained such a "payment in gold coin" clause.

As you say, when FDR made that clause illegal, payment reverted to "lawful money", ie, US dollars.

Apparently, the original lease is still in effect. A few years ago, I read that the current owners were trying to enforce the gold payment option, since gold ownership was legalized in 1977. The contract did not specify a dollar-equivalent amount of gold; it required a specified number of ounces. At today's prices, the amount would be astronomical.

I just googled it, and found this story, from 2008:

http://blog.cleveland.com/pdextra/2008/ ... requi.html

The article says that the tenant was paying $35,000 annualy for the building, while the owners wanted 1693 ounces of gold. At 2008 prices, that came to $1.5 million.

[Gregg]

Of course, I'm secretly connected to a little know Appalachian Illuminati family that controls a cubic mile of platinum, which we use to benefit humanitarian projects and distill untaxed spirits.

Recent family photo... I'm in front, foreground right: