ATM LEASEBACK SCHEMES-- any insight?

[snookered]

Thank you Snookered
My wife and I are retired and we have a wonderful life. Fourteen months ago I was approached about this investment opportunity by good friends. My wife was against it. But. I cashed in an investment paying 4% interest and bought 8 machines; then against my wife's wish I bought another 10 and then 5 more. I got checks for 10 months and I almost had my wife convinced I did the right thing. I feel like a failure and I let the love of my life down. Fortunately we will still get by but I am so interested in what is going on and what my next move should be. This site helps me to calm down and know I am not alone. This is real to me...thanks to everyone who provides insight and speculative information. It helps.
Jroger

Jroger... we are in this together. Be calm. Breath. I know it sounds trite, but that is all we can do right now. Sometimes it helps to hear that from someone else... so here I am. Be calm. Breathe. It will be what it will be. Live your life and find joy. This is not the end all. Be strong.

[grimreaper]

Thank you Snookered
My wife and I are retired and we have a wonderful life. Fourteen months ago I was approached about this investment opportunity by good friends. My wife was against it. But. I cashed in an investment paying 4% interest and bought 8 machines; then against my wife's wish I bought another 10 and then 5 more. I got checks for 10 months and I almost had my wife convinced I did the right thing. I feel like a failure and I let the love of my life down. Fortunately we will still get by but I am so interested in what is going on and what my next move should be. This site helps me to calm down and know I am not alone. This is real to me...thanks to everyone who provides insight and speculative information. It helps.

Sorry. I know how compelling this is and I have seen VERY intelligent and cautious family and friends fall for this. You have family and friends telling you they have made 20% for the last 10 years! That a very potent elixir and why this scheme spreads like WILD FIRE! Keep in mind , you will be able to get significant TAX relief if you are subject to a clawback.

[snookered]

If you are not already decimated and have the fortunate position of having to pay taxes in the future... the tax relief will be a welcome reprise.

However, I fear that many will not be able to take advantage of this advantage, because their income has now decreased substantially and will now have a much lower tax bracket. Am I wrong?

Simple, logical responses please.

[grimreaper]

If you are not already decimated and have the fortunate position of having to pay taxes in the future... the tax relief will be a welcome reprise.

However, I fear that many will not be able to take advantage of this advantage, because their income has now decreased substantially and will now have a much lower tax bracket. Am I wrong?

Simple, logical responses please.

You will have the option of GOING BACK and amending previous returns as well. You will get a CHECK for exessive tax paid in that year. Also, you be able to carry forward any losses from the clawback. You'll need to consult tax accountant to assist.

[Tednewsom]

That's interesting. What happens then? Do you have inside info or what it this?

Based only on what I've read here and simple logic, I expect the three victims and their attorney to appear, and the attorney for NAS to appear minus Gillis and Wisher. The victims' attorney will lay out the reasons for the request for bankruptcy & outside stewardship. The defendants' attorney will either argue against the motion, or simply shrug and agree with it.

I doubt Messrs. Gillis and Wisher will dare to be present.

[Lost Income]

As a victim I couldn't agree more with the above posts. Joel & Ed have disappeared, we need help, and currently this site seems to be our best source for hard info. Bantering and speculations were helpful in the beginning, but now the most helpful info to us is hard info from the SEC, FBI or Courts.

[Judge Roy Bean]

... Fortunately we will still get by but I am so interested in what is going on and what my next move should be. ...

At the risk of being redundant, anyone touched by this mess should not rely on the advice of what amount to be strangers on a web site - no matter how much expertise there might be (and there is from time to time). Consider the fact that in almost all legal matters, there can be multiple opinions; if there weren't, we wouldn't need the judicial system.

Commiserating with other victims can be comforting; no one wants to be the lone victim - it's always nice to know you're not the only one who fell for a scheme and telling your story can be cathartic. But when it comes to getting advice, you're getting what you pay for here and although it may be some solace to see what others think will happen and watch the interplay among people who seem to know a lot more about things than you do, I still contend your best next step is to consult with a professional - and not just the one somebody you know happens to know. You need specialized expertise in investment, estate and tax practice and you don't want to go looking for it after the men in dark suits with no sense of humor they're aware of come calling.

And please, please, please do not share personal information here. If you drop enough clues it will be relatively simple for someone to identify you.

Be careful out here, folks.

Your mileage may vary; objects in mirror are closer than they appear; close cover before striking; use protective eyewear, etc., etc.

[Nationwideinvestor]

1. One Investor group includes the petitioner for the involuntary bankruptcy and therefore are be expected to have reliable information that promoted them to act. That group is not asking for money or even reimbursement for their legal costs and have stated they will not. The group is verifying legitimate investors by attestation from others and has had one meetings. There are now has over 50 investors. Their internal notices have inappropriately been posted on the WEB. The group is not asking for any information other than attestation that applicants are legitimate owners and are asking everyone to maintain privacy.
2. All individuals should seek professional assistance. However at this time experts’ advice from multiple specialist indicates there is no avenue for independent legal action at this time. The next step is to wait for the bankruptcy filing holding period or the Company has the option to stipulate to the involuntary bankruptcy earlier.
3. Each person is advised to deal with the tax and downstream consequences of this investment related to their personal situation. As recommended on this blog that should include professional lawyers, CPA and advisors.
4. Many of the comments on this blog are not accurate. We hope this notice is helpful and we agree be very cautious and please only post facts not speculation, especially if you are not expert in the area. it has to the confusion and pain that all are feeling. The stories of harm done are of biblical and seismic proportions.

[dawnth]

Can you tell me how to contact this group of investors who had the meeting you mentioned in earlier email? I would like to provide this info to other investors. Thank you.. IM not sure if I am using the board correctly, but if this is private information IM me.
Thank you

I'm not afraid to share. Will eventually have to do so anyway, right?

I have been an investor since 2007. I started with 10 machines, and have added another 18 over the years. According to what I have read in this thread, and what I have researched on my own, I will indeed have clawbacks on my first 10 machines. I was paid back for those machines in 2012, and I reckon every penny that I have made after that is dust. I have done meticulous math, and up to the date that that my machines started operating until I got my last check, I figure that I have made exactly $49,500 in profits from those 10 machines.

My question is, what about the other 18 machines that have yet to return a profit, (I bought some as early as last year), will that wipe out the $49,500 that I earned in profit?

[AndyK]

AGAIN; whatever has been posted here to have allegedly transpired is complete hearsay. It might even be intentionally misleading.

Any investor who is interested in staying on top of the situation and in the possibility of recovering any money should not rely on in formation posted here or on information received from any Quatloos member, myself included.

The only authoritative sources of information are the various governmental entities involved in whatever case there is.

Your local US Attorney's office might be able to provide accurate information regarding appropriate contacts.

Alternatively, assuming a bankruptcy action has actually been initiated, the staff of the appropriate district's Bankruptcy Court will be able to provide information as to the existence and status of the case.

[webhick]

This bankruptcy case in connection with the investment group bothers me. Really bothers me. Firstly because the second NASI got in trouble with the Feds, these guys filed suit almost as if to say, "The ship is sinking! Quick! Let's try to get our money before the government has a chance to stop us!" I mean, they only met the minimum requirement of creditors listed, so it's quite clear they had to file rightnow as opposed to setting up a web page and reaching out to existing NASI victims or even just sitting outside NASI's office for a week and telling anyone with a pissed off expression, "Dude, we're planning to file bankruptcy against NASI. Interested?" It would still smell of a reload scam, but it would smell different than this. And it would certainly mean not using this forum to solicit victims.

Then I guess it's more of a confusion as to how this would even work. Let's assume for a moment that the SEC doesn't grind this to a halt. The petition, filed as such, only benefits three investors. If that's not good enough for the judge, and it may not be when you say that you've got 47 more investors on the line who are not in the petition, then it could get thrown out or the investors may need to be added. I smell added legal fees. Is this lawyer being paid hourly or is he working on contingency (assuming that's even legal in an involuntary bankruptcy)? If the case goes through to actual bankruptcy, I'm assuming that it will run like a normal bankruptcy and the investors can then contact the court system to get tacked on as a creditor. In this case, the investor doesn't need the lawyer or the investor group, only knowledge of how the case turns out - which we are obviously going to post here (with dockets and court documents so people can see for themselves). If it doesn't go through to actual bankruptcy, then this group concept has been an exercise in futility and false hope.

But then there's this whole other problem. Unless you were only looking for your net losses from the court, then why would a judge award you anything? A fraud was perpetrated, and sure you didn't know that money was poison, but that doesn't make any profits over and above your investments magically cool. It's still Ponzi money and I can't fathom how you're entitled to it, morally speaking. You're absolutely entitled to recover as much of your net losses as legally allowable, but I don't see why a judge would go "Sure, I'll be more than happy to take money away from those who came out at a deficit and award it to you, where you've already profited. I'll totally sleep better at night having done that." I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I hope I'm wrong about the creditors trying to recover pure profit, but I've not heard anything that opposes that theory yet.

And why shouldn't the SEC stop this before it really starts? Folks involved with the bankruptcy are basically trying to remove assets from the company before the SEC has a chance to locate and contact all the victims, much less try to make them whole. The bankruptcy cannot possibly reach all the victims, since they don't even have access to NASI's records. Only a small subset of the victims would be made whole using this method, with the others (like without internet access) would be left to rot. It's like preferential treatment and it feels so very wrong.

If you guys are looking more for a support group, I'll start up a private Yahoo group (or something) tonight and patrol it to keep the reload scammers out, but please for the love of all things good and right in this world, don't join this investor group with the belief that they can jump your payouts to the head of the pack, get you more than the SEC would, or help your financial situation in any way. And unlike those running the investor group, I have no horse in this race. News about the bankruptcy, SEC, and FBI cases would be posted here as well as the group. I don't want to leave out anyone.

[snookered]

Words of Wisdom, Webhick. Thank you.

I have no intention of joining that group, or getting involved with any attorneys until all of the facts are divulged. Only then, will I have the information needed to move forward in the most practical way.

[dawnth]

Can anyone give me some insight on whom I should contact about this ATM investment as my IRA?
I have contacted the custodial company, and they can't give me any advice or information? I even now have asked them "Entrust Group", how they handle issues such as fraud. I want to close my account, because they are going to charge me fees up the wazoo for an investment that doesn't really exist, even though it shows the value of one machine, it doesn't really exist does it? I asked them to send me the docs to close account and to answer some questions. No response... What responsibilities do the custodial companies have? Thanks again.

[grimreaper]

This bankruptcy case in connection with the investment group bothers me. Really bothers me. Firstly because the second NASI got in trouble with the Feds, these guys filed suit almost as if to say, "The ship is sinking! Quick! Let's try to get our money before the government has a chance to stop us!" I mean, they only met the minimum requirement of creditors listed, so it's quite clear they had to file rightnow as opposed to setting up a web page and reaching out to existing NASI victims or even just sitting outside NASI's office for a week and telling anyone with a pissed off expression, "Dude, we're planning to file bankruptcy against NASI. Interested?" It would still smell of a reload scam, but it would smell different than this. And it would certainly mean not using this forum to solicit victims.

Then I guess it's more of a confusion as to how this would even work. Let's assume for a moment that the SEC doesn't grind this to a halt. The petition, filed as such, only benefits three investors. If that's not good enough for the judge, and it may not be when you say that you've got 47 more investors on the line who are not in the petition, then it could get thrown out or the investors may need to be added. I smell added legal fees. Is this lawyer being paid hourly or is he working on contingency (assuming that's even legal in an involuntary bankruptcy)? If the case goes through to actual bankruptcy, I'm assuming that it will run like a normal bankruptcy and the investors can then contact the court system to get tacked on as a creditor. In this case, the investor doesn't need the lawyer or the investor group, only knowledge of how the case turns out - which we are obviously going to post here (with dockets and court documents so people can see for themselves). If it doesn't go through to actual bankruptcy, then this group concept has been an exercise in futility and false hope.

But then there's this whole other problem. Unless you were only looking for your net losses from the court, then why would a judge award you anything? A fraud was perpetrated, and sure you didn't know that money was poison, but that doesn't make any profits over and above your investments magically cool. It's still Ponzi money and I can't fathom how you're entitled to it, morally speaking. You're absolutely entitled to recover as much of your net losses as legally allowable, but I don't see why a judge would go "Sure, I'll be more than happy to take money away from those who came out at a deficit and award it to you, where you've already profited. I'll totally sleep better at night having done that." I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I hope I'm wrong about the creditors trying to recover pure profit, but I've not heard anything that opposes that theory yet.

And why shouldn't the SEC stop this before it really starts? Folks involved with the bankruptcy are basically trying to remove assets from the company before the SEC has a chance to locate and contact all the victims, much less try to make them whole. The bankruptcy cannot possibly reach all the victims, since they don't even have access to NASI's records. Only a small subset of the victims would be made whole using this method, with the others (like without internet access) would be left to rot. It's like preferential treatment and it feels so very wrong.

If you guys are looking more for a support group, I'll start up a private Yahoo group (or something) tonight and patrol it to keep the reload scammers out, but please for the love of all things good and right in this world, don't join this investor group with the belief that they can jump your payouts to the head of the pack, get you more than the SEC would, or help your financial situation in any way. And unlike those running the investor group, I have no horse in this race. News about the bankruptcy, SEC, and FBI cases would be posted here as well as the group. I don't want to leave out anyone.

It's not uncommon for investors to take preemptive action with an involuntary BK. This will not prevent the SEC enjoining the BK with an injunction if required. No doubt they were prepared for this.

[Tednewsom]

webhick: the caution note is understandable, but there's also a simple explanation that's hardly the devious set-up you're describing.

First, I should think anyone with any damned sense at all, reading this thread at any point from January of this year onward, could see that this thing was a scam and would come to no good end. And if your own money was at stake, you would want to do something to protect yourself.

As of today we know only when the request for involuntary bankruptcy was filed, not when the three victims coordinated their efforts and found a lawyer. Maybe it was immediately after the official notice of SEC involvement, and maybe it predated it. (And to me, neither is particularly suspicious.)

As for your worry that these three acted unilaterally in a big hurry rather than wait and round up 20 or 50 or 100 other scan victims--- the longer anyone waited to act, the worse the situation became. And the more people who knew about the bankruptcy petition, the more likely word would get back to Wisher & Gillis, giving them time for countermoves. There was a legal mandatory minimum of three complainants, they met the minimum, they took action. I don't see dark motives, just desperate action.

As I understand it as it's been explained here, the SEC involvement is simply an investigation in which the government subpoenas information because it suspects wrongdoing. It does not interfere with the company doing business-- like gathering new sucker money, paying out "dividends," bouncing checks, destroying documents and wiping hard drives, booking flights to the Cayman Islands or paying the company officers an unexpected "nice guy" bonus. None of that. It can all continue just jim-dandy while the SEC pores over 10 years' worth of check stubs and tries to figure out IF they should take action.

In the other hand, the request for involuntary bankruptcy (again, as I understand it here) basically jams a crowbar into the crooked machine and brings it to a halt, until someone (the court, the SEC or both.) places a neutral, acceptable custodian in charge instead of the grifters who own the enterprise. I beg your pardon. Alleged grifters.

I do understand the concern about some second scam aimed at the victims of the con. I didn't know this was a common thing, but there's a bunch of crookedness I don't know.

I don't see any indication of deviousness-- and I'm as suspicious as any of you. The three victims who filed for the enforced bankruptcy and their lawyer are the only people in this entire thread who have made their identities public. The only ones! That would be awfully goddamned stupid for people running a con or trying to snake people, now... wouldn't it?

[grimreaper]

Can anyone give me some insight on whom I should contact about this ATM investment as my IRA?
I have contacted the custodial company, and they can't give me any advice or information? I even now have asked them "Entrust Group", how they handle issues such as fraud. I want to close my account, because they are going to charge me fees up the wazoo for an investment that doesn't really exist, even though it shows the value of one machine, it doesn't really exist does it? I asked them to send me the docs to close account and to answer some questions. No response... What responsibilities do the custodial companies have? Thanks again.

You need to consult a tax attorney or CPA. I did find this though>>

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/10-0234.pdf

It looks like with a ROTH you will be able to get tax relief. If it was a standard one, then no.


For investments held in tax-deferred vehicles such as IRAs, the Code limits a loss or
other deduction to the taxpayer’s cost of other “basis” to prevent multiple deductions or
exclusions for the same amount. If taxpayers have basis in a tax-favored retirement
plan or IRA (for example, because they made after-tax contributions to an IRA), they
can take a miscellaneous itemized deduction to the extent they have unrecovered basis
after the distribution of their entire interest in the plan or IRA.

If taxpayers have no basis in the retirement plan or IRA (for example, because they
claimed a deduction for IRA contributions or because we have not taxed the growth in
value in the IRA), they cannot take a deduction for the economic loss in the plan or IRA.
In this situation, we will not tax now or in the future economic income that we never
taxed, or that we taxed but an IRA deduction offset. Allowing taxpayers with no basis in
a retirement plan or IRA to take a loss deduction for amounts that they deducted or
excluded from gross income would provide those taxpayers two deductions, or both a
deduction and an exclusion, for the same dollars. Two deductions also would put those
taxpayers in a more favorable tax position than other taxpayers who contributed to a
retirement plan or IRA on an after-tax basis and sustained a Ponzi scheme economic
loss of the same or a similar amount (and thus received only one tax deduction).

[Nationwideinvestor]

This bankruptcy case in connection with the investment group bothers me. Really bothers me. Firstly because the second NASI got in trouble with the Feds, these guys filed suit almost as if to say, "The ship is sinking! Quick! Let's try to get our money before the government has a chance to stop us!" I mean, they only met the minimum requirement of creditors listed, so it's quite clear they had to file rightnow as opposed to setting up a web page and reaching out to existing NASI victims or even just sitting outside NASI's office for a week and telling anyone with a pissed off expression, "Dude, we're planning to file bankruptcy against NASI. Interested?" It would still smell of a reload scam, but it would smell different than this. And it would certainly mean not using this forum to solicit victims.

Then I guess it's more of a confusion as to how this would even work. Let's assume for a moment that the SEC doesn't grind this to a halt. The petition, filed as such, only benefits three investors. If that's not good enough for the judge, and it may not be when you say that you've got 47 more investors on the line who are not in the petition, then it could get thrown out or the investors may need to be added. I smell added legal fees. Is this lawyer being paid hourly or is he working on contingency (assuming that's even legal in an involuntary bankruptcy)? If the case goes through to actual bankruptcy, I'm assuming that it will run like a normal bankruptcy and the investors can then contact the court system to get tacked on as a creditor. In this case, the investor doesn't need the lawyer or the investor group, only knowledge of how the case turns out - which we are obviously going to post here (with dockets and court documents so people can see for themselves). If it doesn't go through to actual bankruptcy, then this group concept has been an exercise in futility and false hope.

But then there's this whole other problem. Unless you were only looking for your net losses from the court, then why would a judge award you anything? A fraud was perpetrated, and sure you didn't know that money was poison, but that doesn't make any profits over and above your investments magically cool. It's still Ponzi money and I can't fathom how you're entitled to it, morally speaking. You're absolutely entitled to recover as much of your net losses as legally allowable, but I don't see why a judge would go "Sure, I'll be more than happy to take money away from those who came out at a deficit and award it to you, where you've already profited. I'll totally sleep better at night having done that." I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I hope I'm wrong about the creditors trying to recover pure profit, but I've not heard anything that opposes that theory yet.

And why shouldn't the SEC stop this before it really starts? Folks involved with the bankruptcy are basically trying to remove assets from the company before the SEC has a chance to locate and contact all the victims, much less try to make them whole. The bankruptcy cannot possibly reach all the victims, since they don't even have access to NASI's records. Only a small subset of the victims would be made whole using this method, with the others (like without internet access) would be left to rot. It's like preferential treatment and it feels so very wrong.

If you guys are looking more for a support group, I'll start up a private Yahoo group (or something) tonight and patrol it to keep the reload scammers out, but please for the love of all things good and right in this world, don't join this investor group with the belief that they can jump your payouts to the head of the pack, get you more than the SEC would, or help your financial situation in any way. And unlike those running the investor group, I have no horse in this race. News about the bankruptcy, SEC, and FBI cases would be posted here as well as the group. I don't want to leave out anyone.

It's not uncommon for investors to take preemptive action with an involuntary BK. This will not prevent the SEC enjoining the BK with an injunction if required. No doubt they were prepared for this.

Much of this is incorrect.
Just for example, the three who filed enjoy no special standing downstream but take all the risk of litigation related to the filing. Why would they do that if they did not have verified and substantial facts that the filing was in the best interest of all the investors. There was no upside for them other than to protect the assets from the ongoing fraud.
For example, why would they expose themselves to the acquisitions of this blog? Good question. Perhaps they should not provide more information.

he Ponzi scheme was still operational last week and checks were cashed and special funds distributed. Keep calm. All investors will have equal standing in the bankruptcy and a formal creditors committee will take over as the best group to protect all. Lady and gentlemen we urge you not to add fire to the flames here. We do agree with: take caution and get your own professionals to advise on how these events effect you

[grimreaper]

webhick: I don't see any indication of deviousness-- and I'm as suspicious as any of you. The three victims who filed for the enforced bankruptcy and their lawyer are the only people in this entire thread who have made their identities public. The only ones! That would be awfully goddamned stupid for people running a con or trying to snake people, now... wouldn't it?

AGREE 100%. Well said.

[Nationwideinvestor]

This bankruptcy case in connection with the investment group bothers me. Really bothers me. Firstly because the second NASI got in trouble with the Feds, these guys filed suit almost as if to say, "The ship is sinking! Quick! Let's try to get our money before the government has a chance to stop us!" I mean, they only met the minimum requirement of creditors listed, so it's quite clear they had to file rightnow as opposed to setting up a web page and reaching out to existing NASI victims or even just sitting outside NASI's office for a week and telling anyone with a pissed off expression, "Dude, we're planning to file bankruptcy against NASI. Interested?" It would still smell of a reload scam, but it would smell different than this. And it would certainly mean not using this forum to solicit victims.

Then I guess it's more of a confusion as to how this would even work. Let's assume for a moment that the SEC doesn't grind this to a halt. The petition, filed as such, only benefits three investors. If that's not good enough for the judge, and it may not be when you say that you've got 47 more investors on the line who are not in the petition, then it could get thrown out or the investors may need to be added. I smell added legal fees. Is this lawyer being paid hourly or is he working on contingency (assuming that's even legal in an involuntary bankruptcy)? If the case goes through to actual bankruptcy, I'm assuming that it will run like a normal bankruptcy and the investors can then contact the court system to get tacked on as a creditor. In this case, the investor doesn't need the lawyer or the investor group, only knowledge of how the case turns out - which we are obviously going to post here (with dockets and court documents so people can see for themselves). If it doesn't go through to actual bankruptcy, then this group concept has been an exercise in futility and false hope.

But then there's this whole other problem. Unless you were only looking for your net losses from the court, then why would a judge award you anything? A fraud was perpetrated, and sure you didn't know that money was poison, but that doesn't make any profits over and above your investments magically cool. It's still Ponzi money and I can't fathom how you're entitled to it, morally speaking. You're absolutely entitled to recover as much of your net losses as legally allowable, but I don't see why a judge would go "Sure, I'll be more than happy to take money away from those who came out at a deficit and award it to you, where you've already profited. I'll totally sleep better at night having done that." I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, and I hope I'm wrong about the creditors trying to recover pure profit, but I've not heard anything that opposes that theory yet.

And why shouldn't the SEC stop this before it really starts? Folks involved with the bankruptcy are basically trying to remove assets from the company before the SEC has a chance to locate and contact all the victims, much less try to make them whole. The bankruptcy cannot possibly reach all the victims, since they don't even have access to NASI's records. Only a small subset of the victims would be made whole using this method, with the others (like without internet access) would be left to rot. It's like preferential treatment and it feels so very wrong.

If you guys are looking more for a support group, I'll start up a private Yahoo group (or something) tonight and patrol it to keep the reload scammers out, but please for the love of all things good and right in this world, don't join this investor group with the belief that they can jump your payouts to the head of the pack, get you more than the SEC would, or help your financial situation in any way. And unlike those running the investor group, I have no horse in this race. News about the bankruptcy, SEC, and FBI cases would be posted here as well as the group. I don't want to leave out anyone.

This is shear ignorance of the law as is much of this posting. For example: " If that's not good enough for the judge, and it may not be when you say that you've got 47 more investors on the line who are not in the petition, then it could get thrown out or the investors may need to be added. I smell added legal fees. Is this lawyer being paid hourly or is he working on contingency (assuming that's even legal in an involuntary bankruptcy)? " It only needs three if the claims can be substantiated and if the company consents. If the claims are not accepted than more can be added, but three is enough with claims exceeding a very minimal threshold and no payment or response from the company. To everyone: please show this to any bankruptcy attorney to validity the incorrect nature of the posting. Find a different reliable other source for information! You may not find that here. This is causing unneeded pain and misinformation. The three are fully responsible for all legal fees not others for this filing. OMG what a ridiculous analysis.

[dawnth]

Thank you!! IM wondering if the custodial account wasn't playing right either? Don't they have special obligations in cases like this? File reports, or something? Contact investors and provide information as to what it means to them?

Can anyone give me some insight on whom I should contact about this ATM investment as my IRA?
I have contacted the custodial company, and they can't give me any advice or information? I even now have asked them "Entrust Group", how they handle issues such as fraud. I want to close my account, because they are going to charge me fees up the wazoo for an investment that doesn't really exist, even though it shows the value of one machine, it doesn't really exist does it? I asked them to send me the docs to close account and to answer some questions. No response... What responsibilities do the custodial companies have? Thanks again.

You need to consult a tax attorney or CPA. I did find this though>>

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-wd/10-0234.pdf

It looks like with a ROTH you will be able to get tax relief. If it was a standard one, then no.


For investments held in tax-deferred vehicles such as IRAs, the Code limits a loss or
other deduction to the taxpayer’s cost of other “basis” to prevent multiple deductions or
exclusions for the same amount. If taxpayers have basis in a tax-favored retirement
plan or IRA (for example, because they made after-tax contributions to an IRA), they
can take a miscellaneous itemized deduction to the extent they have unrecovered basis
after the distribution of their entire interest in the plan or IRA.

If taxpayers have no basis in the retirement plan or IRA (for example, because they
claimed a deduction for IRA contributions or because we have not taxed the growth in
value in the IRA), they cannot take a deduction for the economic loss in the plan or IRA.
In this situation, we will not tax now or in the future economic income that we never
taxed, or that we taxed but an IRA deduction offset. Allowing taxpayers with no basis in
a retirement plan or IRA to take a loss deduction for amounts that they deducted or
excluded from gross income would provide those taxpayers two deductions, or both a
deduction and an exclusion, for the same dollars. Two deductions also would put those
taxpayers in a more favorable tax position than other taxpayers who contributed to a
retirement plan or IRA on an after-tax basis and sustained a Ponzi scheme economic
loss of the same or a similar amount (and thus received only one tax deduction).