Dean Clifford - A Tale of Two Gurus

[arayder]

And unlike Guru's, lawyers can't go and gossip about their clients online so anything Dean said is confidential.

I wonder if it works both ways in Canada? If not, we can be sure the Deaners will eventually have a story.

The freeman pseudo lawyers who've been giving Dean bad advice have got to be figuring this is a good thing since it will allow them to stay in the conversation without having any skin in the game.

[Llwellyn]

In with the lawyer, out with the lawyer.. As I am sure no one here is surprised at this.

For the lawyer, my wager would be, Dean was adamant about using the FMOTL style defense and arguments. However, a lawyer can NOT put in / argue a defense IF they know it is fraudulent. Thus making any argument about the Straw Man, the Person/natural man, or any form of VEXATIOUS litigation would cause the lawyer to be enacting a falsehood or fraud against the court. This would result in the lawyer being disbarred. Now this poor lawyer was probably stuck, with Dean insisting the court and law has no jurisdiction over him.. etc etc.. and after discussing with Dean, they would have realized there was nothing they could do. I'll be honest, I expect Dean to continue in his ways, until the court assigns him a lawyer, OR simply summarily convicts him. At which point, he will scream that he has been railroaded and the corrupt system did him in.

[notorial dissent]

I'm sure he'll have a really really good excuse lie sure fire explanation ready by the time the real reason gets out, about how he's winning and all and got them on the run with his legal genius.

[arayder]

I suppose I am assuming the worst when I express my amazement that nobody in the Clifford's family has not sought to get counseling for Dean.

I say I am assuming because it is possible that over the years friends and family have tried to get Dean to "talk to somebody" and the therapy/counseling either never happen or never did any good.

It is relevant to point out that part of the court orders upon Darren Clifford's cop assualt conviction a few years ago included a requirement that he undergo counseling.

The usual freeman retort to getting jailed or convicted freemen into counseling is to opine that the powers that be are just trying to convince the sheeple that anybody who questions authority must be crazy.

But if one looks at Dean's history one sees incident after incident which Dean could have deescalated the situation, but chose instead to ramp up the violence. Jailed and left with no chance to physically attack authority figures Dean was reduced to expressing his anger through verbal threats he and his brother could not wait to make public.

Somebody get this boy some help!

[Jeffrey]

It is relevant to point out that part of the court orders upon Darren Clifford's cop assualt conviction a few years ago included a requirement that he undergo counseling.

Actually we misread that part of the news article, the prosecutor wanted him to be sentenced to counseling but the Judge didn't order it.

And it wasn't a cop assault, it was his ex wife's husband or some such domestic drama.

[notorial dissent]

arayder, FWIW, I asked pretty much the same thing when I first encountered the dim duo. I really don't know if I got a solid answer then either. It has been intimated that the family do not support their behavior after I had opined that he had to have learned it somewhere, it was also intimated that they had tried to get them in to therapy and it didn't take, but I can't positively say one way or another. Available evidence would say it didn't, and needs to be done/enforced. Not to put too fine a point on it, this is the kind of internal rage that eventually turns in to really nasty murder cases. We seem to see them here with far more frequency than I would like.

[arayder]

It is relevant to point out that part of the court orders upon Darren Clifford's cop assualt conviction a few years ago included a requirement that he undergo counseling.

Actually we misread that part of the news article, the prosecutor wanted him to be sentenced to counseling but the Judge didn't order it.

And it wasn't a cop assault, it was his ex wife's husband or some such domestic drama.

My bad. I appreciate the the "we".

arayder, FWIW, I asked pretty much the same thing when I first encountered the dim duo. . . .Not to put too fine a point on it, this is the kind of internal rage that eventually turns in to really nasty murder cases. We seem to see them here with far more frequency than I would like.

The reality that Dean can't see what he is doing to himself indicates he probably doesn't realize what he's doing to his family and doesn't give a damn what his actions and words might cause to happen to cops and judges.

I fear that somewhere some equally rage disordered freeman is reading about Dean on the internet and fantasying about what he's going to do at his next traffic stop.

[littleFred]

... and fantasying about what he's going to do at his next traffic stop.

A recent video doing the rounds is Free Roamer vs Texas Border Patrol. A person (possibly woman, but nobody is certain) goes totally apeshit at a United States Border Patrol stop. The motorist clearly expected the stop, and had become wound up about it.

This is Free Roamer's first video. Perhaps we can look forward to more.

[PeanutGallery]

In regard to Free Roamer, this seems to not be directly relevant to Dean and also not really relevant to Canada. It's also not actually sovereign citizen. It's a protest about the activities of Border Patrol who have a habit of setting up inland checkpoints to catch illegal migrant workers or drugs. Other individuals have protested these checkpoints and I've seen many YouTube videos showing these protests.

It's notable that this policy only applies to Americas border with Mexico and such checkpoints don't exist to capture Canadians sneaking in to reap the advantages of Americas free market health care, social security programs and readily available firearms.

[arayder]

. . .Free Roamer, this seems to not be directly relevant to Dean. . .

We were talking about how others with rage problems similar to Dean's and might ape his attitude or actions. We don't know if Free Roamer was influenced by Dean. But we do know that Dean's philosophy does not encourage calm and respectful behavior at traffic stops.

[littleFred]

My apologies for the thread distraction. I offered Free Roamer as someone who, exactly like Dean in some of his videos, deliberately works himself up to a state of blind rage. Dean did it privately to a camera but then (allegedly) on a phone call that was published; FR does it to Patrol people who are calmly doing their job. Like Dean, FR made and published a video of this rage. To what extent was FR's rage for the camera's benefit? I don't know.

[Burnaby49]

Dean's lawyer's application to withdraw is tomorrow. But there's something new on the file:

48 23-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM MARTIN, J. - DATED 17-FEB-2015

Dean's adjourned bail hearing was on the 17th. The same day Justice Martin wrote to presumably Dean and his lawyer. Three days later she applied to withdraw. Call me a suspicious kind of guy but I wonder if Inness had actually agreed to follow Dean's instructions on a bail application (ie OPCA crap), and the judge wrote her and said: a) this isn't going to work and b) advancing this kind of argument could be detrimentral to her career as a lawyer. Just a suspicion.

[Hanslune]

Ah the plot thickens! TA DUM!

[Burnaby49]

Time to step away from the Chief and make a Dean update. Yesterday he cast off the useless assistance of a member of the British Accredited Registry, Sarah A.Inness. This new entry from the court records;

Court Date Court Time Status Hearing Type Notes
16-Mar-2015 09:00 PENDING CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - BEFORE MARTIN, J.
26-Feb-2015 10:00 HEARD CRIMINAL UNCONTESTED MOTIONS(THURS-10:00) OF SARAH INNESS, TO WITHDRAW

Result:

50 26-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET PFUETZNER, J. 26FEB2015 MOTION FOR MISS INNESS TO WITH DRAW GRANTED ADJ. TO 16MAR2015 9AM MOTION WITH MARTIN, J.

Dean must have achieved this magnificent result with a letter to the court!

49 25-Feb-2015 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM DEAN CLIFFORD, 23FEB2015

Who can imagine what Powerful Truths he revealed? In any case, it's all irrelevant. Dean WINS! Dean LOSES! Dean spends the next six months in remand! Victory!

[Hanslune]

In Canada is their maximum amount of time you can spend in jail prior to being sentenced?

[bmxninja357]

i do not believe so. there is generally accepted limits if the prosecution is dragging its feet. but if its the defendant dragging it out you can spend a lot of time in remand. i know of one guy on guns and drugs who was in edmonton remand over 7 years.....

so if the crown drags its feet its roughly 18 months. if its the defendant it can be much longer.

peace,
ninj

[Burnaby49]

Does anybody remember Dean any more? Mighty Dean? Who? His next bail hearing is on Monday, March 16. There has a been a bit of last-minute correspondence for this hearing:

51 02-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM DEAN CLIFFORD, 27FEB2015
52 12-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB CORRESPONDENCE - FROM DEAN CLIFFORD, 10MAR2015
53 13-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB AFFIDAVIT OF DEAN C. CLIFFORD, AFF 09MAR2015
54 13-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB ORDER TO CONVEY A PRISONER DEAN CLIFFORD

Will there be more bluster? I'd imagine so. Dean doesn't seem to know how to back down.

[notorial dissent]

The old saying of you can't fix and/or cure stupid generally holds true. Case in point. He's held out this long, I suspect he will go for the whole road. I am beginning to think that he is totally incapable of learning, or else his inner rage has overrun what little sense he may actually (questionably) have.

[Burnaby49]

Clifford's bail hearing was yesterday, and he did NOT get bail denied. Victory!!! Instead, the decision in the hearing has been set for release on Thursday:

55 16-Mar-2015 Winnipeg-QB DISPOSITION SHEET MARTIN, J 16MAR2015 BAIL DECISION ADJ 19MAR2015 @ 9 AM

Court Date Court Time Status Hearing Type Notes
19-Mar-2015 09:00 PENDING CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - BEFORE MARTIN, J.
16-Mar-2015 09:00 ADJOURNED CRIMINAL BAILS (MON/THURS) BAIL REVIEW - BEFORE MARTIN, J.. Adj from 16-Mar-2015 to 19-Mar-2015

I'm guessing that Justice Martin is preparing a detailed written judgment in response to Clifford's application. If we're lucky it will be reported. Of course Dean might have finally won but I don't think I'll put money on the odds of Dean finally getting bail after all the antics he has pulled in court. Wait and see...

The bail decision will be 16 months less 5 days from his arrest. That's a lot of time to spend in remand without even getting to trial.

[Hyrion]

The bail decision will be 16 months less 5 days from his arrest. That's a lot of time to spend in remand without even getting to trial.

With the less-time-served calculations of 1.5, that's the equivalent of 24 months less 7.5 days.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Judge sat down and ran the hypothetical "how much time could he possibly serve (both min and max) if convicted on all current charges" and discovered that his current time served is between those two points.

As a result, in order to better serve Justice he's to be released until trial and actual sentencing is deemed.