Bitcoin Seizure

[tycho-brahe]

Seriously. None of you seem to even know what MONEY is, muchless how bitcoin works.

http://youtu.be/f6uuAupT4AQ

START THERE: This is a Duncan Initiative spin-off that has a life of its own. MONEY AS DEBT III covers monetary theory in simple layman's terms. It also covers cryptographic currencies.

I post this, because it's almost embarrassing reading these posts.

I suspect there are at least 2 lawyers here, judging by the writing. It boggles my mind that one can practice law, and not know what money is.

The term LEGAL refers to the CODES, ACTS, and STATUTES which form the legal system. What obligates you to follow these "laws" (They have the force of law, with consent) when you have not contracted?
Did you choose to be born in your country?
When did you consent?

The answer is MONEY. If you do not make it yourself, grow it yourself, or have it GIVEN to you, virtually EVERYTHING in your sad debt-burdened life was acquired with MONEY. A BILL OF EXCHANGE, CREDIT, and/or PROMISSORY NOTE, with the amendment "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER". THIS NOTE IS A TENDER FOR LAW. Get it? This amendment provides the benefit/protection of the Acts, Statutes, and Codes that form the legal framework that governs YOU.

Want to be "free" and not obligated and/or governed? DON'T USE MONEY. This is a small point the the "Free-Dumb" movement keeps missing.

Anyway, I figure if you are going to have a forum about "scams" you should probably know what money is. I hope this helps.

[Burnaby49]

Want to be "free" and not obligated and/or governed? DON'T USE MONEY. This is a small point the the "Free-Dumb" movement keeps missing.

Anyway, I figure if you are going to have a forum about "scams" you should probably know what money is. I hope this helps.

It helps me realize that tycho-brahe is right over the deep end.

[grixit]

His tin nose is on too tight.

[wserra]

Seriously. None of you seem to even know what MONEY is, muchless how bitcoin works.

http://youtu.be/f6uuAupT4AQ

Sorry, I don't get definitions of important terms from youtube videos. Perhaps you could take a stab at making your own point.

The term LEGAL refers to the CODES, ACTS, and STATUTES which form the legal system.

"CODES, ACTS, and STATUTES" are, for all practical purposes, pretty much the same thing. Moreover, "the term LEGAL" is an adjective - legal system, legal tender, legal secretary. If you want another term for "CODES, ACTS, and STATUTES", you need a noun. "Law" works as a start. Law, to be exact, consists of statutes, plus court decisions, plus administrative regulations and rulings.

See how it's done? Now, go ahead and explain "money" to us, why dontcha?

What obligates you to follow these "laws"

Philosophical/moral considerations aside, nothing at all. Of course, in the case of criminal statutes, if you violate them you may lose your freedom. In the case of civil statutes, if you violate them you may lose your property. If those consequences are acceptable to you - well, you have free will. Do what you want.

(They have the force of law, with consent) when you have not contracted?

Laws have the force of law? What a revelation. But consent has nothing to do with it, since laws are not contracts.

"THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER". THIS NOTE IS A TENDER FOR LAW. Get it?

Well, no. "Legal tender" has a specific definition, and you don't get to make up your own.

Want to be "free" and not obligated and/or governed? DON'T USE MONEY.

Man, do I ever agree with that. I've been trying to convince people not to use money for years.

Send it to me instead.

[Famspear]

Seriously. None of you seem to even know what MONEY is, muchless how bitcoin works....

And you're citing a youtube video for that?

I post this, because it's almost embarrassing reading these posts.

Not as embarrassing as it would be if you were actually aware of how little you know about the things about which you're pontificating.

I suspect there are at least 2 lawyers here, judging by the writing. It boggles my mind that one can practice law, and not know what money is.

No, what is boggling your mind is that you're clueless about both the concept of law and the concept of money.

Anyway, I figure if you are going to have a forum about "scams" you should probably know what money is. I hope this helps.

Don't stay confused forever, pal. My sister's dog knows more about money than you do.

[notorial dissent]

And Tycho brayed, nothing of importance or worth repeating, so I won't.

Belated welcome to Quatloos. I'm sorry you met with such a rough welcome, but when you come on all indignity and petulanty and sanctimoniously all knowing, particularly when you really aren't, and don't delude yourself otherwise, it tends to happen around here, almost reflexively.

Yes, there are indeed a couple of lawyers here, actually quite a few more than a couple in fact, and a good many current and former financial industry people, as well as accountants, financial and tax advisors and planners, as well as a myriad of other interests and professions. It is, however, a pretty safe bet to say that just about everyone here has more than just a "bit" of knowledge about not only what money is, but what it can do. And not to rub too much more salt salt in the wounds, considerably more real knowledge and experience than your unhumble self can pretend to claim.

Money, is first, last, and foremost, an agreed upon modicum of exchange be it the stone coins of Yap, tulips in the 18th C, beaver pelts of the early 19th C, or those dreaded awful FRN's everyone is always complaining about, and yes, even, Bitcoins, in a limited and desultory way, it would appear. The salient point is agreed upon. The thing that holds it altogether are the LAWS that protect that modicum of exchange and keep it functional.

Just as a final point, I don't have to know how the yap coins were carved or the tulips grown, the beaver pelts were caught or cured, or who the FRNS were created or printed to spend them, since in the final analysis that is ALL that is important, that I be able to spend them. Any more than it matters to me what nonsense the bitcoiners go through to produce theirs. Now, when you understand that you will have learned something. Now if I wanted to be sure that any of the aforementioned were real or actually worth what is claimed, then having a knowledge how they came into existence would be of value, but then that is why we have laws, so that I don't have to wonder if the gold coin I got in change is really gold or not or worth what is says it is.

[JamesVincent]

Yup, another drive-by poster that knows more about money and it's interchange in society and creation then tax attorneys, accountants, lawyers, CPAs, former employees of the IRS and a former employee of the Fed. Aren't you glad he could school us? WE could have been wrong all these years and never learned the right way except he was nice enough to enlighten us, and provide video coverage so the big words didn't strain our eyes. I think we should be thankful.

[tycho-brahe]

Want to be "free" and not obligated and/or governed? DON'T USE MONEY. This is a small point the the "Free-Dumb" movement keeps missing.

Anyway, I figure if you are going to have a forum about "scams" you should probably know what money is. I hope this helps.

It helps me realize that tycho-brahe is right over the deep end.

So... Just so I have this straight...

Because all of you are discussing the subject of the MOST FAMOUS Cryptographic Currency, and I happened to be informed of it by one of your readers (Because they wanted me to ACTUALLY come ridicule you for your profound ignorance on the subject), I posted a production I actually had a hand in, to get you qualified to discuss the subject. Telling someone who DEVELOPS CRYPTOGRAPHIC CURRENCIES that they are "off the deep end", (and the other assorted names you call me) is counter-productive. I'm sorry I wasted my time.

You have not actually investigated what I say/posted, and it hasn't occurred to you that I MIGHT be right, and you MIGHT not know what "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER" means.


Since you are trying to PREVENT fraud, you should stop pretending that you know things that you don't, even if it hurts your feelings when it is pointed out. Your ignorance means you will spread misinformation as stupid/dangerous as any "Sovereign Citizen (That's an oxymoron. You are either Sovereign or you are a Citizen)" or "Detax" scammer.

You STILL don't know what money is... In a further post, I get called MORE names, and one of you even LIES about what the word LEGAL means.


Very well. I certainly can't refute the hurt feelings of such "enlightened" rational folk with the extra skill of diagnosing mental illness!

So... I'm a bad crazy person, and I will not bother you with my "mental illness" anymore.

Bye.

[wserra]

Didn't think so.

[Famspear]

...Because all of you are discussing the subject of the MOST FAMOUS Cryptographic Currency, and I happened to be informed of it by one of your readers (Because they wanted me to ACTUALLY come ridicule you for your profound ignorance on the subject), I posted a production I actually had a hand in, to get you qualified to discuss the subject. Telling someone who DEVELOPS CRYPTOGRAPHIC CURRENCIES that they are "off the deep end", (and the other assorted names you call me) is counter-productive. I'm sorry I wasted my time....

No, what is counter-productive -- for you -- is to come here and pretend to be an expert on something, and to presume to teach others. You have an attitude problem.

You're not in any position to teach other people about the subject of money or about the subject of the law. Many regular posters here, however, are in a position to do that.

We're also in a position to be able to spot a phony fairly quickly. You are a phony.

Bye!

[notorial dissent]

And Tycho brayed some more.

"MOST FAMOUS Cryptographic Currency", according to whom? Outside of a very small coterie of users it is totally unknown. The only part of that statement I won't take exception to is cryptographic, otherwise, feh. And for that matter it may well be the only cryptographic currency outside of the nearest Dungeons and Dragons game, but again, feh!!! To put not too fine a point on it, no one who matters cares!!

My profound apologies to whoever it was who invited you, they obviously chose poorly and did not get the response they wanted.

It would seem that your grasp of what has been said here is on par with your general grasp of what money and law is, which is to say non existent.

No one here has said anything at all about your, or the developers for that matter, being "off the deep end". Now admittedly, I called you a braying ass, but sorry, just reciting the obvious.

You are correct in one thing, you have wasted your time, you have failed to communicate anything, other than that you are a braying ass, that even has anything remotely to do with bitcoin and not your own overblown and totally unwarranted ego.

Now you could have come here and actually presented some real information about bitcoin that had some actual and probative value, but instead you chose to expose your own overblown ego for public ridicule, which it so rightly got, when it wasn't being totally ignored that is. Then again, this wasn't about presenting information, it was about presenting yourself in all its wonderfulness, sorry, my cat is more impressive, and wouldn't dream of making such a complete and utter fool of themselves, not once, but twice as you have.

Oddly enough, no one here has claimed to have more than a passing knowledge of bitcoin, and some of us are at least middling interested in the mechanics of it. And other than some idle speculation about how it would be handled in the real world, no one has really said much of anything about it.

To respond to one of your few real statements "you MIGHT not know what "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER" means". Actually, I am not only quite sure, but in fact certain that most if not all of the denizens here know exactly what the phrase means, something you quite obviously do not, as you have so exhibited by your usages.

Again, since no one here has made any pronouncements whatsoever about bitcoin, other than your unhumble self that is, you are again ranting at the wind for no reason.

So we still don't know what money is??? Then pray why don't you enlighten us from your perch from on high. if your explanation is on par with the rest of what you have related, my cat will indeed have a laughing fit before the day is over.

You do do a great deal of projection don't you. I quite honestly believe that other than the braying ass aspect of your demeanor, that no one here has given your personal problems even a first thought. Your actions on the other hand dismiss you for what you are.

[Gregg]

So... Just so I have this straight...


~snip

You STILL don't know what money is...

~snip

So... I'm a bad crazy person...

Bye.

I snipped the parts that not only were a waste of all the resources that went into them and also not my own particular subject matter. The first part I left is. I know what money is. And having worked for the two institutions on the planet who have "made" most of the money on the planet, aside from being just a wee bit, well, arrogant is a word, I'm not convinced that you know what money is at all. I'd school you but a good bit of it you can get by looking at some other posts I made a while back in a more civil discussion, and well, you're not looking to me like someone who wants to know...

The second part is not my expertise, but I figure you at least know yourself, so I left it, too.

[JamesVincent]

Just in case you actually wanted to read up on the "creation" of money this is the thread I believe Gregg was talking about. He and several others who have worked in the banking industry discussed the Fed and how money is "created" and balanced. I just happened to remember it since I learned a good deal from it.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9171

[Number Six]

I always found Aristotle's discussion of the origin of money to be particularly helpful, in Politics 1:9. http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.1.one.html

I am a little curious as to what the ancients would make of digital currencies.

[notorial dissent]

I came across these the other day and couldn't resist.

http://www.uclick.com/client/den/dt/2013/07/22/
http://www.uclick.com/client/den/dt/2013/07/23/