Von NotHaus and basic economics

[The Operative]

As stockholders of the Federal Reserve system, the member banks would be entitled to maintain possession of the dissolved entity's assets. The US government would still have the liability associated with those securities.

Otherwise, the FRNs would truly be worthless, since there would be no US securities backing them.

That is a common misconception. The member banks are required by law to subscribe to stocks in the Federal Reserve district banks, but those stocks do not confer any rights of ownership beyond the par value of the stock. All national banks are required to become members of the Federal Reserve. They are required to "subscribe" to a number of $100 par value shares that is equal to 3% of the member bank's paid-in capital. Another 3% is to be available on a demand from the Board of Governors.

The total number of shares of stock is simply increased or decreased at times with no change in value to the outstanding shares. This happens if a member bank liquidates, or a new national bank is created or any member bank increases their own paid-in capital. For example, if a member bank liquidates, they receive back $100 per share plus any portion of the yearly 6% dividend that has not yet been paid. Those shares are then eliminated from the count of shares of the Federal Reserve district bank. As another example, if a member bank increases on its' books the amount of paid-in capital, it is required to subscribe to an additional amount of shares in the Federal Reserve district bank to make its subscription equal to 3% of its new paid-in capital amount. The new shares are simply created.

In either case, look at Title 12 U.S.C. § 412 - Application for notes; collateral required. That section basically states that Federal Reserve agents for each district bank must specify the collateral used to back the Federal Reserve notes and provide updates to the Board of Governors daily. While the law doesn't specifically state what would happen upon dissolution of the Federal Reserve, the collateral backing the Federal Reserve Notes would transfer to the U.S. Government when the government took over liability of the Federal Reserve Notes.

[Quixote]

If the US Government, for some reason I can't think of, had to pay up it's debt that the FRNs represent - the taxpayers would be ultimately responsible for paying that off.

Travel with me to the year 2100. The TPs have finally convinced somebody who matters that federal reserve notes are notes, and one has decided to present his for payment.

Teller (at the "special" tranactions window): How may I help you, sir?

TP: I want to get paid for my FRNS.

Teller: OK. Let me see the notes.

TP: (Hands $1,000 worth of FRNs to the teller.)

Teller: I have to check these serial numbers. (Walks away with the FRNs, returning a few minutes later.)

Teller: Everything checked out, sir. Would you like that $1,000 in cash or deposited to your account?

TP: Cash.

Teller: Here you go. (Counts out $1,000 and hands them to the TP.)

TP: Victory at last! (Walks out with the same bills he came in with.)

[Dr. Caligari]

Teller: Here you go. (Counts out $1,000 and hands them to the TP.)

TP: Victory at last! (Walks out with the same bills he came in with.)

That is actually a theory that David Merrill [nee Van Pelt] promotes on SuiJuris-- that you can "convert" your FRNs into "lawful money" which looks just like FRNs, but which are non-taxable.

[LPC]

Teller: Here you go. (Counts out $1,000 and hands them to the TP.)

TP: Victory at last! (Walks out with the same bills he came in with.)

That is actually a theory that David Merrill [nee Van Pelt] promotes on SuiJuris-- that you can "convert" your FRNs into "lawful money" which looks just like FRNs, but which are non-taxable.

And so fiction imitates fantasy.

[notorial dissent]

The local Fed Res Sub Banks shares are more legally akin to membership certificates in a joint stock non profit. They evidence membership, but they have no characteristics of ownership, must be surrendered upon dissolution or resignation, and cannot not be transferred. They cannot be voted in block, and no one bank or set of banks can own more than a certain percentage, thus there is never and can never be a majority stockholder, and it is doubtful that the by-laws even allow for that. The dividend they pay are basically interest on the money loaned to the Fed for the shares.

They are for all intents and purposes evidence of (required) membership in the Federal Reserve system.

[Demosthenes]

Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters,

Usually at this time of the month, it is the deadline for the Liberty Dollar News, our monthly newsletter that has chronicled the Liberty Dollar for over nine years.

Of course all that came to a screeching halt when the g-boys raided the Liberty Dollar just two weeks ago on Wednesday, November 14. 2007.

So now I am running from the government, afraid for my life and trying to figure out what the hell to do next! Right? Wrong! Nothing could be further from reality. Please read these quick bulleted (no pun) items for a quick review of the latest developments:

IMPORTANT: If you have not received your order and you paid for it with a bank card, please call your bank immediately, cancel the transaction, reversing the transaction and GET YOUR MONEY BACK. Don’t let the government steal your money!

1. First I am not running “from” the g-boys. It is just the opposite. I am running “to” the government. I see the current situation as an ideal opportunity to validate the Liberty Dollar. Otherwise they will have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am guilty and the Liberty Dollar is the scourge of the country. Luckily, my favorite FBI Agent “Andy” just called me yesterday... on my private cell phone. Well the cell phone is suppose to be “private” as most people don’t know the phone number. So I complimented Andy on his resourcefulness and he responded that he was the “FBI”. Now that impressed me and gave me a good secure feeling... because if the FBI could not find my cell phone number, we would really be hurting. In any case, Andy and I had a very “friendly” discussion for about 10-15 minutes. Seems that he wants to “talk” to me. I took that to mean that he wants to arrest me. So I asked about that and sure enough... a Grand Jury, indictment and arrest seems to be a given at this time.
Later in our discussions, when Andy was forth coming with other info, I complimented him on his “friendliness”. To that Andy told me that he (that’s the gov) would be as “friendly” as I was. Well, what is a poor boy to do, especially one in hot water with the feds... but be friendly. So trust me, I intend to be very “friendly”. Seriously, I told my favorite FBI Agent Andy (who I am sure is reading this and can reply if he is so moved...) that I took the government’s raid “very seriously.” To which Andy replied, “And well you should... because the government takes it very seriously too.”
So there you have it, my second call with my very Special Agent Andy. For the record, I spoke briefly to Andy shortly after he and his gang invaded the peaceful Liberty Dollar offices and raided it of everything. And as required, we received an inventory of the all confiscated material. Unfortunately, it was not as detailed as really required... simply stating 500 pounds of silver, without regard to year, weight, denomination or design was way too sloppy for this detailed pone arrestee-in-waiting.
Again, I am running “to” the government to absolve the Liberty Dollar as a legal, private, voluntary, barter currency as soon as possible. I want to get your property back ASAP. Please note this complete post for more important info on how you can help us get your property back.

2. Our first mission is to get your confiscated property back. Please don’t call it stolen... yet. It will only be “stolen” if we lose this case. And God help us all if the Liberty Dollar is found guilty. So please take two actions: First sign up for the Class Action Lawsuit and encourage other people to do so. We need thousands and thousands of people demanding the return of their “stolen property”. Second, we are launching a Legal Defense Fund to defend your right to use Gold and Silver any way you chose. It would be a very dangerous first step if the government started limiting the way you can use your own gold and silver. Please don’t let this happen! Please donate $10 or more to this very serious movement.
Currently we cannot accept donation via a bank card... but we can accept checks, money orders and cash. It is OK to mail your donation to the same old address: Liberty Dollar. 225 N. Stockwell Road. Evansville. Indiana. 47715. Every single dollar, FRN or Liberty Dollar is greatly appreciated.
Stay tune for more exciting ways to donate as we ramp to drive this out of control government back to reality. We can do it... and we need your help.

3. Now lets get serious. Did you read the 35 page Affidavit filed by Agent Andy to show ‘probable cause’ for the issuance of the Search Warrant? If not please go to: http://www.libertydollar.org/legal/pdf/ ... idavit.pdf and read it! Read it very thoroughly. And while you do... ask yourself, “Where’s the crime?” Where is the crime?!!! Usually in such an Affidavit there is all sorts of names, dates, offences, and other info. None of that is in this Affidavit! It seems that I am guilty of selling a t-shirt to Karen, our favorite kinda-undercover agent who was well known from the get-go. Where is the crime? And the idea we were “laundering money” is almost a joke... if it was not such a serious matter. Trust me, this is a serious matter and is being taken most seriously.

4. Equally serious, is your fear that some good natured, smiling, Agent Andy is going to raid your home and confiscate your Liberty Dollars. I know paranoia is rabid. And many of you have good cause to be alarmed. The government’s assault on our liberties and property has been way over the top. And many of us have lost property in the past. But this should only toughen our resolve for this case. But please don’t fear a raid on your place or home. There is no way the government has the resources to mount such an attack with $20 million Liberty Dollars in hundreds of thousand of hands all over our great country. Take precautions, diversify your holdings is prudent for everyone.
While it is not the time to relax and be happy, paranoia is no friend. Good communication is our best companion. So if you hear of some related action, please report it to me directly and stay focused so we can get all our property back.

5. Towards resolving this testy matter, we are interviewing federal criminal attorneys and hope to secure good, dedicated, successful counsel asap. As I mentioned to Agent Andy, I wouldn’t want to meet him without counsel.

6. I was encouraged when Agent Andy told me that he would call me when he knew the schedule so I could “turn myself in”. I thought that was real “friendly” and thanked Andy, as I am obviously not hiding out and prefer that this matter be handled in a gentlemanly way. I just hope the arrest does not interfere with my other commitments. I will be in Evansville on Thursday, attorneys in DC, family for the holidays and please join me for a rare performance as the keynote speaker at the Liberty Forum in Nashua NH on Friday, January 4. Please consider coming to the Liberty Forum... just mention Liberty Dollar and get 10% off. Trust me this is going to be wild... just a couple of days before the big Presidential Primary!!! Come to New Hampshire. Even Agent Andy is welcome. But lets find a convenient time for the arrest...OK?

7. Surprise!!! Speaking of commitments. I will be in Evansville this Thursday, November 29! Open to all. Pot Luck at 6:00. Meeting at 7:00 and out for a beer at 9:00. Everyone is welcome. Please join me at the Liberty Dollar office: 225 N. Stockwell Road Evansville Indiana. 47715. Plenty of free parking. Just off the Lloyd Expressway. Just ask Agent Andy he found us. But I don’t’ think he will be there on Thursday.... but then again... maybe Andy can come out and play... and he might be there

8. Plus... if you did not catch my interview with Glenn Beck on CNN or with Larry Kudlow on CNBC... please visit http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm. Who would have thought that the raid would generate national news... let alone two shows on the same night and at the same time! The little Liberty Dollar just amazes me.

9. While doing the two national shows was good fun, it was not all the coverage. In fact, there are dozens of newspaper articles. The most amazing coverage came from a most amazing source, The Washington Post. Not only did the Post cover the raid, it was featured on the Front Page, plus it included a image of the Ron Paul Dollar! And if all that was not enough, the article was quite large and REALLY GOOD. It all started when Jan Salsbery, one of many fiery RCOs in California, referred Alec MacGillis, a reporter with the Washington Post to call me. As usual, Alex sounded like a very bright, very young reporter. And as I explained with a certain amount of contempt, you might write a good (truthful) article, but it will be sausage when the editors get done. But very late Friday night Alec called me and said the “editors” liked the story and was going to give it “some space.” Well who would have thought ... Front Page for the Liberty Dollar and Ron Paul?! Now who could image that he will be our next President... I for one! And hope you agree! Our country really needs Ron Paul. As the silver Ron Paul Dollar states: VOTE FOR TRUTH.
PS: To Alec’s credit, he followed up with a call on Monday, and subsequently wrote an additional outstanding article: http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stori ... 598713.pdf

10. The local television and newspaper also provided very good coverage. It is amazing how many people are interested in the Raid on the little Liberty Dollar and the confiscation of two tons of Ron Paul Dollars. Of course your support is critical to our success. BIG Thanks for all you have done!

11. And finally have you seen the prices of the Ron Paul Gold, Silver and Coppers Dollars. One day the copper is a buck and the next day $65 or more on eBay! Silver is in the $250 to $450 range! Just crazy! And that is not even for the special numbered or hallmarked editions. Are you hip to the Hallmarked Ron Paul Silver Dollars? The Hallmark features a micro scroll with BOR denoting Ron’s respect for the Bill of Rights.
Quite simply, there is a lot to be thankful for. When we started the Liberty Dollar we did not get an instruction manual. We did not know how the Liberty Dollar was going to save the country from a monetary crisis. But we vowed not to let our great country falter without trying. We all, even Agent Andy, have a civic duty to our country. We are commanded by the Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident... That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. We shall not let this country fail to live up to the ideals upon which it was founded by our Founding Fathers. Let us each vow that our country will not falter on my watch!

Now as I face eminent threat of arrest and possibly many years in prison, you have my sincere thanks for supporting the Liberty Dollar that exemplifies those very ideals. Our Founding Fathers fought and died for them, we shall do nothing less.

Remember it is only by banding together and adopting a free and independent currency that provides us with “just weights and measures” will we be able to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax system and generate a peaceful and prosperous society.

Change the money / Change the country / Change the world. Do it now!
Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor
November 27, 2007

[Famspear]

Mr. von NotHaus wrote:

Otherwise they will have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am guilty and the Liberty Dollar is the scourge of the country.

If you are charged with a crime, the prosecution does not have to prove that the Liberty Dollar is "the scourge of the country." If you are charged with a crime, the prosecution does not have to prove that you are guilty "beyond a shadow of a doubt." In the United States, the burden of persuasion in a criminal case is generally "beyond a REASONABLE doubt."

I hate to nitpick.

It's just me.

I can't help myself.

[Demosthenes]

From: Rob4RonPaul
Date: Nov 27, 2007 7:35 PM


LIBERTY MONEY WHAT TO DO

HERES WHAT YOU CAN DO.

1. Go to ebay
2. Search for norfed
3. Purchase a paper silver certificate (warehouse reciept) in any denomination.
4. Join the class action lawsuit at ( libertydollar.org )
5. It is that easy.
6. It also makes a great Cristmas gift for your freedom loving friends.

http://libertydollar.org/
http://libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm
http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

[Randall]

From: Rob4RonPaul
Date: Nov 27, 2007 7:35 PM


LIBERTY MONEY WHAT TO DO

HERES WHAT YOU CAN DO.

1. Go to ebay
2. Search for norfed
3. Purchase a paper silver certificate (warehouse reciept) in any denomination.
4. Join the class action lawsuit at ( libertydollar.org )
5. It is that easy.
6. It also makes a great Cristmas gift for your freedom loving friends.

http://libertydollar.org/
http://libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm
http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Rob4RonPaul
Truth in advertising??

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

1. First I am not running “from” the g-boys. It is just the opposite. I am running “to” the government.

because:

a Grand Jury, indictment and arrest seems to be a given at this time.

Please note this complete post for more important info on how you can help us get your property back.

Litigation?

2. Our first mission is to get your confiscated property back.... We need thousands and thousands of people demanding the return of their “stolen property”.

Which would be the money YOU defrauded people out of?

Second, we are launching a Legal Defense Fund to defend your right to use Gold and Silver any way you chose.

This sounds sexual.

*blatent appeal for donations to his defense deleted.

3. Now lets get serious... Where is the crime? And the idea we were “laundering money” is almost a joke... if it was not such a serious matter. Trust me, this is a serious matter and is being taken most seriously.

I believe laundering money is a crime.

4. Equally serious, is your fear that some good natured, smiling, Agent Andy is going to raid your home and confiscate your Liberty Dollars. I know paranoia is rabid. And many of you have good cause to be alarmed.

Sure am this has reawakened the zombies. Get your anti-zombie tool from the basement.

5. Towards resolving this testy matter, we are interviewing federal criminal attorneys and hope to secure good, dedicated, successful counsel asap. As I mentioned to Agent Andy, I wouldn’t want to meet him without counsel.

Crap there goes the defend-thy-self fun for us.

*Blatant PR deleted

We are commanded by the Declaration of Independence

Commanded? Commanded?

Now as I face eminent threat of arrest and possibly many years in prison, you have my sincere thanks for supporting the Liberty Dollar that exemplifies those very ideals. Our Founding Fathers fought and died for them, we shall do nothing less.

Remember it is only by banding together and adopting a free and independent currency that provides us with “just weights and measures” will we be able to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax system and generate a peaceful and prosperous society

. Anybody run this through a copywrite program to see it it was plagerized by Jim Jones?

[LPC]

3. Purchase a paper silver certificate (warehouse reciept) in any denomination.
4. Join the class action lawsuit at ( libertydollar.org )

Wrong. You can't buy into a class action lawsuit that way.

http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

The web page says that "There is [sic] still $20 million Liberty Dollars in circulation."

I don't know whether I've asked this before, but where did this recently bankrupted coin dealer get $10 to $20 million in silver?

[wserra]

Say he had 2,000 lbs of gold with each ingot weighing 50 pounds, that is only 400 ingots,

[Cobalt Shiva]

That's what I really want to know. How much precious metal was confiscated.

vs. "how many ingots of lead covered with gold leaf were confiscated."

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

I don't know whether I've asked this before, but where did this recently bankrupted coin dealer get $10 to $20 million in silver?

I'm sure the grand jury will be asking that.

Liberty Dollars differ from other alternative currencies in that they carry a suggested US dollar face value.

Oh and you can buy silver certificates! Just $10.00 for $5.00 worth of silver deposited in a warehouse!

[grixit]

Are the libbies really *selling* for that much on Ebay now, or is that merely what his shills, er, sellers, are asking?

[Demosthenes]

But when you limit your search to "completed items" using Liberty Dollar Norfed as your search terms, the results show that such huge numbers are a joke.

Here's a typical $20 liberty coin that closed yesterday for $22.20.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0002420404

[ErsatzAnatchist]

A search of completed auctions using Liberty Dollar Ron Paul will show how the Ron Paul dollar has generated a much better return on investment than any other form of silver.

search of completed Ron Paul Dollar Auctions

The copper ones seem to have done the best in terms of total gain in value.

[Evil Squirrel Overlord]

I like how one seller says "only a few hundred made". If so they are likely to be on ebay, where you can still unload the occasional one for a profit. Once Ron Paul is out of the election they will be worth a few bucks to the avid poltical campaign collector and commemorative coin collector, but I suspect this is Billy Beer country. Sell now, before the stupid people run out of money.

[iplawyer]

40. 40. 40. 40. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Perfectly understandable. After all, if you were good at math, you'd be studying medicine or engineering, not law.

Hey - I resent that remark!

[ArthurRubin]

ADD means never having to say ... "Oh, shiny."