In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

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Reno's Sentence

Time Served
0
No votes
Less than 41 months.
2
6%
41-51 months
4
12%
52-69 months
5
15%
70-87 months
12
36%
88-120 months
8
24%
121-240 Months
2
6%
241+ Months
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 33

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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by The Observer »

lastlady wrote:Time will tell how it all turns out though. But for now 7 more years in prison is not the end of the world.
That is pretty gracious on your part, considering the fact that you aren't the one who has to spend that time in prison .
Oh and you are all heartless.
Heartless? We weren't the ones encouraging Reno to defy the judge and risk a higher sentence. With friends like you, Joe Haas, etc., Reno didn't need to worry about enemies in the government.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by webhick »

Margot Sanger-Katz from the Concord Monitor wrote:Brown ally gets lengthy sentence
Judge cites perjury, dangerous intentions

By Margot Sanger-Katz Monitor staff
September 27, 2008

A former blogger and self-described security expert for Plainfield tax protesters Ed and Elaine Brown was sentenced to eight years in prison yesterday for his role in the couple's prolonged standoff with federal agents.

That sentence exceeded what federal sentencing guidelines recommended and was handed down after a three-hour-long hearing that included a lengthy speech by the defendant on Constitutional law and accusations of perjury by the judge.

Cirino Gonzalez, 31, of Alice, Texas, lived for several months with the Browns, who holed up in their fortified concrete home for nearly nine months, evading prison sentences for tax evasion and promising violence if U.S. marshals tried to arrest them. During his stint with the couple, Gonzalez posted frequent updates about the case on the internet, carried guns on the property and purchased a .50-caliber sniper rifle, capable of shooting targets at distances greater than a mile.

Gonzalez was tried in March alongside two other men accused of conspiring to prevent marshals from arresting the Browns. Though he was convicted of conspiracy and aiding and abetting the Browns, the jury failed to reach a verdict on two other charges, including one that he had used guns to prolong the standoff. But in issuing his sentence, Judge George Singal said that he saw the .50-caliber rifle as a key to understanding Gonzalez's intentions, and as a sign of his dangerousness.

"I find that Mr. Gonzalez specifically went to the Brown residence prepared to intimidate, prevent, and if necessary, kill members of the United States Marshals Service," Singal said.
Like two of his fellow supporters who were sentenced this summer, Gonzalez used his opportunity to address the court to criticize the justice system. Gonzalez began his hour-long soliloquy by reading from the letter of a childhood friend. "I know you're the kind of person who can't keep his mouth shut, but I wish you would just shut up," the letter said.

Gonazlez did not heed its advice. During his speech, he variously read from more than 20 letters, the Bill of Rights and correspondence with the New Hampshire Secretary of State's office. At several points, he offered harsh words for marshals and prosecutors who had worked on the case, saying they had not sought the truth. He also criticized Singal, who he said violated his right to a fair trial.

"You want me to say I learned my lesson," Gonzalez said near the end of his remarks. "I did. The lesson is you don't f--- with the government."

"The Constitution and Bill of Rights mean nothing to you all, absolutely nothing," he continued, as he tore up the copy of the Bill of Rights he'd been reading from. "Because everything has a rule to get around it."

He closed his statement with a plea and a warning. Gonzalez said that he was ready to go home and hoped the judge would allow him to return to his family. But he also said that there would be consequences if Singal handed down a sentence longer than the time Gonzalez has already served in jail.

"You know me, and if you give me more time, I will bring more charges and more charges and more charges," he said.

The Browns were arrested in October 2007, by an undercover team of marshals disguised as supporters. When agents searched the house, they found it packed with bombs, guns and ammunition. Agents who testified at trial described dozens of improvised explosive devices, and assault rifles assembled with scopes near upstairs windows in the house. The Browns had solar power and well water, as well as dehydrated food that could have lasted them for months.

Gonzalez left the house months earlier, after an argument with Ed Brown about appropriate security measures, Gonzalez has said. Much of his defense at trial centered on changes in the Browns' outlook and supplies between June, when Gonzalez left, and October. During his testimony at trial, Gonzalez said that there were no bombs on the property, and any guns that were there were owned, and generally held by individual visitors. His own three guns, he said, were for his personal protection, and would not have been used to defend the Browns from any arrest attempt. When he left the Browns' home, he took his guns with him.

Probation officers, who had completed a pre-sentencing investigation, had recommended a sentence of 41 to 51 months under the federal sentencing guidelines. Singal found that Gonzalez qualified for a higher guideline sentence. But he opted to hand down a sentence exceeding even that 71- to 87-month range.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Arnold Huftalen had asked the judge to impose a 10-year prison sentence, arguing that Gonzalez was a dangerous and violent man who was still "in complete denial that he was involved in any criminal activity."

Gonzalez's lawyer, David Bownes, had requested a time-served sentence. Bownes argued that the jury's inability to convict Gonzalez of violent crimes showed that they did not believe that Gonzalez had violent intentions.

During the trial, Gonzalez testified in his own defense, and told the jury that he had gone to the Browns not to help secure them against attack but to capitalize on their celebrity and advance his own political projects. At trial, Gonzalez described Ed Brown as a "jerk," and said that while he shared the Browns' belief that the federal income tax is invalid, "their cause was not exactly my cause." Those statements differed from many of the blog postings he wrote from Plainfield, where he described his security experience and his willingness to fight in the Browns' defense.

Singal seemed unpersuaded. In addition to describing Gonzalez as a dangerous man, he also cited more than 10 instances where he found that Gonzalez had perjured himself during his testimony. Singal said that Gonzalez had lied to the jury when he denied any plan to obstruct the marshals and where he said that he bought the .50-caliber rifle because it was a good investment.

Bownes told the judge that he objected to such findings, and indicated that he would file an appeal.

Gonzalez was sentenced yesterday on two counts - conspiracy to impede the marshals and accessory after the fact. Prosecutors decided not to retry Gonzalez on the other two charges, a second conspiracy count and a weapons charge. They have reserved the right to bring those charges forward at a later date.

Yesterday, Huftalen said he could not comment on the case, since another Brown supporter has not yet been sentenced.

Bownes also would not comment, but he issued a strong reprimand to a longtime Brown supporter outside the courtroom. Joe Haas, a janitor from Gilmanton Iron Works, visited the Browns frequently during the standoff and has been meeting regularly with Gonzalez and other supporters in jail, offering unconventional legal advice. During a brief, loud conversation, Bownes told Haas that his involvement may have cost Gonzalez years in prison.

"You ruin people's lives," he said.

Two of the four Brown supporters charged with crimes have already been sentenced. Jason Gerhard of Brookhaven, N.Y., was sentenced to 20 years in prison, another sentence that exceeded the federal guidelines. Robert Wolffe, of Randolph, Vt., was sentenced to 30 months after he testified against the other men. The final defendant, Daniel Riley of Cohoes, N.Y., recently finished a stay at a psychiatric facility, after his lawyer contended that he was not competent to participate in his sentencing hearing. Riley faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years.

The Browns are serving 63-month federal prison sentences on their original tax crimes, and have not been charged in connection with the standoff.
This article is: 0 days old.
Source Article (Excellent reading, BTW)

I wouldn't have blamed Bownes if he hauled off and decked Under-fog. Lawyers are supposed to do the best they can by their client, and Joe made it impossible for him to do that.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Gregg »

Every time I read one of Scoop's articles, I reckon I could fall in love with her. That lizard complexion condition can be fixed, but I'd really have to work on the Yale thing.....

:D

good piece, ma'am
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by wserra »

lastlady wrote:So the verdict here is one should be punished by the actions of others.
Not at all. With respect to Gonzalez' post-arrest conduct, the verdict is that you should take responsibility for what you did. The verdict is that it is really easy for those with big egos and small consciences to write checks payable with other people's lives. If someone like Haas were to have been involved in the standoff and arrested, he would have been the first one in line at the door of the U.S. Attorney's office. I've seen it over and over.
Sound great! You guys should be so pleased with yourselves, with your superior intelligence and all, and of course you must almost be orgasmic with the results.
Perhaps you could point to any evidence of all those orgasms. Speaking for myself, I hated to give the govt more of a client's life than was necessary. This sentence was not necessary. The ones who are now orgasmic are the attention whores to whom the name "Cirino Gonzalez" will be nothing more than a dim memory in six years. I am not saying that you are one of those. You must decide if the shoe fits.
But for now 7 more years in prison is not the end of the world.
Unless he loses good time, it's not going to be that. One gets 53 days per year of good time. On an 96-month sentence, that's about 14 months. With credit for the time he has served, that's about 5.5 years more.
Oh and you are all heartless.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Mr. Mephistopheles »

Excerpted from Scoop's article:
... Gonzalez began his hour-long soliloquy by reading from the letter of a childhood friend. "I know you're the kind of person who can't keep his mouth shut, but I wish you would just shut up," the letter said. ...
At least Gonzalez has one friend who actually appears to have his best interest at heart.

A true friend is a rather rare commodity. I'll wager this childhood friend will still remember Cirino Gonzalez in 6 years after the current set of fair-weather friends and nere-do-wells have long since tossed him aside like a soiled tissue. I hope that Gonzalez will eventually see who his true friends are and that he should have bid the likes of Joe Haas, VanMeter, and landlady "good-riddance" many months ago.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Demosthenes »

lastlady wrote:Oh and unless you are the Judge or Criminal Sentencing Consultant how do you even know about the letter's contents? You only know of the ones posted on the internet.

Again you are in ignorance. Oh and you are all heartless.
Reno read the letters out loud at the sentencing hearing. Scoop and Erzast and I were all there. You were not.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by wserra »

The Court entered a written order in the docket with the Guideline findings. The most startling thing (if Guideline findings can ever be startling) is that the judge adopted Probation's Guideline, not the Govt's - 41-51 months. So he doubled the Guideline in imposing sentence.

Obviously, the issue of Gonzaez' dangerousness - the hung counts - accounts for a good deal of the departure. I can't believe that the conduct of Gonzalez himself and his "supporters" did not also factor in. Had he been contrite, he could well have basically neutralized the dangerousness argument, and have been looking at a sentence just at the upper end of the Guideline.

Nice work.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Demosthenes »

I think Reno's performance at the sentencing did him a lot of damage. When you're trying to persuade a judge that you're not a danger to society, yelling at the judge in anger, threatening the two prosecutors and a Marshal, making sarcastic under-your-breath comments while dropping the f bomb a dozen + times is not the way to win your case. Let's just say he did not come across as a "peaceful" man.

Reno got very very upset that the prosecutor said he couldn't keep a stable job for more than 6 months, and just about lost it when the prosecutor said that the Navy booted him out for "fitness reasons." Reno was also visually angry that the DOD contractor had apparently said they had no record of him ever working for them in Iraq.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Demosthenes »

According to Reno, the Navy issued him some kind of warning about his weight.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Gregg »

Don't know about the navy, the Army, in my day (the 80s) was getting pretty strict on weight, and if you were outside the book they did the thing with the calipers an stuff, some people I considered more than very fit spent a lot of time being hassled by it, I can't recall anyone ever getting booted but I would guess it was general discharge or honorable. Physch discharges are medicals, the famous Section 8.

AS for getting along with others in prison, the problems Reno may have are nothing compared to what Danny is looking at. I'm guessing he'll be getting beaten pretty much every day he spends out of solitary for the next 40 years. What I think is interesting is how the Judge really went above and beyond the sentencing guidelines here, and the implications this has for Danny. He's looking at minimum 30 plus whatever the guidelines for the other charges, he may not have much bigger of a choir of idiots making noise for him but he more than makes up for that with his own stupidity and annoying things he keeps submitting to the court. What is he, 40 something? I doubt he ever gets out, what a waste.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Paul »

30 years ago, the Navy was kicking out lifers and not allowing people to re-enlist if they were too overweight, after giving them notice and directing them to lose weight. We called it being put in the Fat Man's Club. Of course, following true Navy logic, if you wanted to get out, being a walrus didn't work. When I joined, there were suckers who (like me) signed up for 6 years on their first enlistment to get special schooling. Technically, you signed up for 4 years and agreed to extend your enlistment for 2 more. I knew 2 men who were put in the Fat Man's Club and deliberately gained weight towards the end of their 4 years in order to get out of the extra two, and were laughed at, extended for 2 years, and threatened with discipline if they didn't lose weight.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Doktor Avalanche »

As a current member of the United States Navy, I can say without reservation that they're not playing when it comes to your weight.

It's part of your Physical Readiness Test (PRT). Apart from doing X number of push-ups, crunches and being able to run 1.2 miles in a specific amount of time (depending on your age) you first have to weigh in the month prior to the actual test.

If you're overweight - you failed the PRT.

Fail it three times in four years - bye bye. At my NOSC alone, they've bounced almost half of the staff just on that issue.

It used to be you'd get two kinds of COs - the ones who really didn't give a shit about your weight so long as you did your job and the gung-ho "out the door, fatty" ones.

Then the word came down from God (Chief of Naval Operations) Himself around 2003 - anyone who couldn't pass the PRT needed to go. Tough shit if we lose good sailors, we don't need walking heart attacks waiting to happen. Now they're all singing from the same hymn book.

Having seen Reno, I imagine his story to be somewhat correct with one amendment - they didn't just warn him, they bounced him.

As for me, staying within regs is a bit of a challenge but so far I've managed 10 PRTs in the last five years.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Dezcad »

Demosthenes wrote: Reno got very very upset that the prosecutor said he couldn't keep a stable job for more than 6 months, and just about lost it when the prosecutor said that the Navy booted him out for "fitness reasons." Reno was also visually angry that the DOD contractor had apparently said they had no record of him ever working for them in Iraq.
For a man of "Truth", the truth actually came back to hurt Reno.

My only regret is that one of the people responsible for Reno's enhanced sentence - Joe Haas, is free to make life worse for other people with his nonsensical "legal" rantings.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by SheWolffe »

Dezcad wrote:
My only regret is that one of the people responsible for Reno's enhanced sentence - Joe Haas, is free to make life worse for other people with his nonsensical "legal" rantings.
I totally agree. He thrives on the attention he can draw to himself. I have to wonder if he really believes he is helping people or just enjoys feeling needed by desperate people.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by ErsatzAnatchist »

Dezcad wrote: My only regret is that one of the people responsible for Reno's enhanced sentence - Joe Haas, is free to make life worse for other people with his nonsensical "legal" rantings.
I wonder if anyone who Joe has "helped" will ever figure out how much harm that *ss has done to them.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by webhick »

ErsatzAnatchist wrote:
Dezcad wrote: My only regret is that one of the people responsible for Reno's enhanced sentence - Joe Haas, is free to make life worse for other people with his nonsensical "legal" rantings.
I wonder if anyone who Joe has "helped" will ever figure out how much harm that *ss has done to them.
I sometimes wonder if the only people that realize that Joe is screwing them over are the people like SheWolffe - folks who ditched him before his disruptions caused irreparable damage.

All the others seem to pray at the Altar of Haas. Where, if you press your ear against the stone, you can hear the distant screams of anguish as men and women are separated from their freedom, torn asunder with reams of paper, and bathed in the melted wax of a thousand red crayons.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by The Observer »

webhick wrote: All the others seem to pray at the Altar of Haas. Where, if you press your ear against the stone, you can hear the distant screams of anguish as men and women are separated from their freedom, torn asunder with reams of paper, and bathed in the melted wax of a thousand red crayons.
Hmmmm, sounds like the 8th bolgia of the 8th circle of Hell.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by Demosthenes »

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
v.
DANIEL RILEY, et al.,
Defendants.

Docket no. 07-CR-189-GZS

PROCEDURAL ORDER

The Court hereby ORDERS that the Clerk of Court remove Joseph S. Haas as a movant from the docket in this matter. Absent a further order of the Court, the Clerk is directed to refuse to file on this docket any further motions or filings that are delivered by Mr. Haas.

SO ORDERED.

/s/ George Z. Singal
Chief U.S. District Judge

Dated this 29th day of September, 2008.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by wserra »

About f*in' time.
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Re: In the Finest Traditions of Quatloos - A Poll

Post by webhick »

wserra wrote:About f*in' time.
I was relieved at first, until I realized that he'll just find another way to get his drivel on the docket. Most likely by having his "client" put their name to it and file it, or by using an alias.
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