SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

fortinbras
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by fortinbras »

The only case that Lexis had in Florida was a Sean Freeman v. State in 1980, an appeal from the Taylor County court, with only the one line that the appeal was dismissed. No hint of what the case was about.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by The Observer »

wserra wrote:But how do you do that to your kids?
Here's how:
wserra wrote:If he wasn't such a greedy, narcissistic sonovabitch...
wserra wrote:Had he simply filed and paid, he would doubtless owe far, far less - not only because of interest and penalties, but because everyone can do better than an SFR.
Essentially, the SFR program is the IRS' way of trying to get people to wake up and file the returns. I cannot count the number of times that I have seen refund situations arise out of filing an original return to remedy the SFR filing. But that was based on situations where the taxpayer didn't underwithhold or fail to make the proper amount of ES payments. I would not be surprised if SubVet went (or at least tried to go) exempt in order to keep Uncle Sam from getting his fair share.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by The Operative »

wserra wrote: 2008:
Filing Number:
2008166880

Debtor Amount:
$146,486.00
2010:
Filing Number:
2010071675

Debtor Amount:
$47,955.00
Already in 2011:
Filing Number:
2011000682

Debtor Amount:
$9,897.00
That's over $200K in FTLs.
I think that it should also be noted that the first tax lien includes the years 1999 through 2004 and also includes six $500 penalties and one $5,000 penalty. So, this moron hasn't been paying his fair share of income taxes for at least 11 years.

The combined three tax liens are approximately 65% or more of the estimated market value of his house. Combine those with what I estimate is left on his mortgage and assuming he has used his equity line of credit, he may actually owe more than his house is worth. At what point does the IRS consider foreclosure?
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by The Observer »

The Operative wrote:At what point does the IRS consider foreclosure?
At the point where it becomes clear that the taxes cannot be collected by less intrusive means such as wage garnishment, bank levies, etc. But seizure and sale of the residence has to be pursued through suit filed in federal district court after the IRS can clearly establish that there is equity in the property that the tax lien attaches to and that senior encumbrances are not in excess of that equity portion.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by The Operative »

The Observer wrote:
The Operative wrote:At what point does the IRS consider foreclosure?
At the point where it becomes clear that the taxes cannot be collected by less intrusive means such as wage garnishment, bank levies, etc. But seizure and sale of the residence has to be pursued through suit filed in federal district court after the IRS can clearly establish that there is equity in the property that the tax lien attaches to and that senior encumbrances are not in excess of that equity portion.
Well, based upon a quick perusal through public records, I estimate that he owes about $75k on his first mortgage. He also has a $50k home equity line of credit that he took out a few years ago. Estimates on the market value of his home is approximately $310k. Considering that at least a portion of his tax debt dates back to the 1999 tax year, it appears to me that SubVet is a good candidate for foreclosure.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by bmielke »

The Operative wrote:
The Observer wrote:
The Operative wrote:At what point does the IRS consider foreclosure?
At the point where it becomes clear that the taxes cannot be collected by less intrusive means such as wage garnishment, bank levies, etc. But seizure and sale of the residence has to be pursued through suit filed in federal district court after the IRS can clearly establish that there is equity in the property that the tax lien attaches to and that senior encumbrances are not in excess of that equity portion.
Well, based upon a quick perusal through public records, I estimate that he owes about $75k on his first mortgage. He also has a $50k home equity line of credit that he took out a few years ago. Estimates on the market value of his home is approximately $310k. Considering that at least a portion of his tax debt dates back to the 1999 tax year, it appears to me that SubVet is a good candidate for foreclosure.
Would he get a homestead exemption? If so what is that in FL? I thought I remembered reading that FL's Homestead exemption was something ridiculous like $50K/Spouse. ( I could be wrong)
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Gregg »

Depending on the date, if the estimated value is based on property tax records, it could be grossly inflated now. Florida real estate has been really hit hard in the last few years and stuff on the books at the county tax office for a million dollars are selling for under $100,000 in a lot of places. The condo I bought last year was assessed at over a million and I got it for $120K.

So he might be more screwed at the bank than he is at the IRS. He's retired navy (another long string of rationalization on how that's not federally connected income I'm sure) so can they garnish the pension?

And in general, isn't it pathetic what LH has become? Almost every single person who still posts there is looking for the magic words to get them out of the trouble they're in, there isn't a lot of activity in the "Victory" part of the site these days.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Quixote »

Would he get a homestead exemption?
That would not be relevant in a foreclosure of a federal tax lien. The lien attaches to all rights in property. State law exempting the home from creditors' liens is inapplicable.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Pottapaug1938 »

Gregg wrote:Depending on the date, if the estimated value is based on property tax records, it could be grossly inflated now. Florida real estate has been really hit hard in the last few years and stuff on the books at the county tax office for a million dollars are selling for under $100,000 in a lot of places. The condo I bought last year was assessed at over a million and I got it for $120K.

So he might be more screwed at the bank than he is at the IRS. He's retired navy (another long string of rationalization on how that's not federally connected income I'm sure) so can they garnish the pension?

And in general, isn't it pathetic what LH has become? Almost every single person who still posts there is looking for the magic words to get them out of the trouble they're in, there isn't a lot of activity in the "Victory" part of the site these days.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Gregg »

I have decided that when I rule the world, LH will have a disclosure box like the little info box most forums have. Instead of your age, where you live, how many posts and a avatar etc... it would have total amount of IRS judgments outstanding, how many homes forclosed upon, number of FNOILs filed with total dollar amounts, any prison time or probation related to tax matters, if you're spouse left you or your kids ended up digging ditches because you paid their college fund in Civil Penalties...
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by . »

bmielke wrote:Would he get a homestead exemption?
The FL homestead exemption has nothing to do with any creditor's rights in any FL property. The $25K/$50K exemption for a property that is a primary residence is for purposes of calculating property taxes. The exemption for school board tax purposes is $25K, for regional, city and county taxes it's $50K. The exemption amount is subtracted from assessed value and the appropriate tax rate is applied to any balance.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by bmielke »

. wrote:
bmielke wrote:Would he get a homestead exemption?
The FL homestead exemption has nothing to do with any creditor's rights in any FL property. The $25K/$50K exemption for a property that is a primary residence is for purposes of calculating property taxes. The exemption for school board tax purposes is $25K, for regional, city and county taxes it's $50K. The exemption amount is subtracted from assessed value and the appropriate tax rate is applied to any balance.
Well that certainly explains the high figures.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by grixit »

The Savage Submariner is going to find himself living in a cardboard box behind Avengers headquarters. Or maybe in Peter Parker's garage.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Dezcad »

. wrote:
bmielke wrote:Would he get a homestead exemption?
The FL homestead exemption has nothing to do with any creditor's rights in any FL property. The $25K/$50K exemption for a property that is a primary residence is for purposes of calculating property taxes. The exemption for school board tax purposes is $25K, for regional, city and county taxes it's $50K. The exemption amount is subtracted from assessed value and the appropriate tax rate is applied to any balance.
That's not entirely true. Florida does have a "homestead exemption", as you've described, for the basis of property taxes. Florida does also exempt the homestead from claims of general creditors, without regard to the value of the property. there is a size limitation (1/2 acre in municipality and 160 acres outside a municipality)

The Florida Constitution, Article X, Section 4 provides an exemption of the homestead without regard to the value of the property from creditors (with the exceptions for taxes, improvements and mortgages on the property).
SECTION 4. Homestead; exemptions.—
(a) There shall be exempt from forced sale under process of any court, and no judgment, decree or execution shall be a lien thereon, except for the payment of taxes and assessments thereon, obligations contracted for the purchase, improvement or repair thereof, or obligations contracted for house, field or other labor performed on the realty, the following property owned by a natural person:
(1) a homestead, if located outside a municipality, to the extent of one hundred sixty acres of contiguous land and improvements thereon, which shall not be reduced without the owner’s consent by reason of subsequent inclusion in a municipality; or if located within a municipality, to the extent of one-half acre of contiguous land, upon which the exemption shall be limited to the residence of the owner or the owner’s family;
And as previously stated, this exemption is inapplicable to liens created by Federal law, including IRS tax liens.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by LPC »

Quixote wrote:
Would he get a homestead exemption?
That would not be relevant in a foreclosure of a federal tax lien. The lien attaches to all rights in property. State law exempting the home from creditors' liens is inapplicable.
I did some research last year into the rights of the creditors of a decedent in different kinds of non-estate transfers under Pennsylvania law, and also looked at the scope of federal tax liens. As Quixote points out, state law limits on the rights of creditors do not limit federal tax liens in any way. See, for example, United States v. Bess, 357 U.S. 51 (1958) (federal lien attached to cash surrender value of life insurance, notwithstanding exemption under state law).

That didn't surprise me, but what I was surprised to find was that federal tax liens also trump the anti-alienation provision in ERISA, so federal tax liens can attach to qualified retirement benefits, at least according to every circuit to have addressed the issue so far. See, e.g., Shanbaum v. United States, 32 F.3d 180 (5th Cir. 1994); United States v. Sawaf, 74 F.3d 119 (6th Cir. 1996); United States v. McIntyre, 222 F.3d 655 (9th Cir. 2000); United States v. Taylor, 338 F.3d 947 (8th Cir. 2003).

(By the way, there is also a statute giving the claims of the United States priority over all other claims against a decedent's estate. 31 U.S.C. § 3713(a)(1)(B). That priority would apparently extend to taxes for which no return had been filed before death and for which no assessment had been made, and so give the United States priority over other creditors even in the absence of a lien.)
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Prof »

Texas is actually more generous than Florida: 10 acres urban, 100 acres rural to single persons, 200 acres rural to head of household. This exemption, which is set out in statute and in the Texas Constitution, is without reference to the value of the realty or any improvements on the realty. Other states have similar homestead exemptions.

BUT: Claims by the federal government are superior to the state exemptions in all cases and subject only to the exemptions and limitations on garnishment, etc., that appear in the IRC.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by The Operative »

Gregg wrote:Depending on the date, if the estimated value is based on property tax records, it could be grossly inflated now. Florida real estate has been really hit hard in the last few years and stuff on the books at the county tax office for a million dollars are selling for under $100,000 in a lot of places. The condo I bought last year was assessed at over a million and I got it for $120K.
I wasn't using property tax records alone to make the estimate. However, I did some additional (~5 minutes worth) research and found that sales of similar sized homes in the same neighborhood sold between $170k and $270k. So the previous estimate is probably a little high. It is very probable that if the IRS decided to pursue foreclosure that he and his wife would end up with nothing other than having a large portion of his tax bill satisfied.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Gregg »

It is very probable that if the IRS decided to pursue foreclosure that he and his wife would end up with nothing other than having a large portion of his tax bill satisfied.
I'm guessing that might make her and ex-wife.
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by ArthurWankspittle »

notorial dissent wrote:More in the realm of tank traps and tiger pits with the way these morons are proceeding. Speed bumps are when you get your hands slapped and told not to do that again, and I think they are all, without exception, well beyond that stage. The question is not IF they are going to end up in court, but WHEN and for how much.

Anyone, and Submarine veteran in particular, who is too dumb to figure out that his magic letter, either got round filed, or else added to the expanding criminal jacket they are preparing on him deserves exactly what is going to happen to him, which isn't going to be pretty.

He has already proven in numerous previous posts, that he either routinely didn't duck when going through doorways, inhaled far too many fumes working in the torpedo room, or else the Navy was just really really desperate for deck swabbers, because if he really was ever in the Navy I find it very hard to believe and terrifying at the same time.
It might explain something about his mental state if he's been a deck swabber on a submarine.... :Axe:
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Re: SubVet finds silver bullet -- in foot

Post by Famspear »

LPC wrote:.....(By the way, there is also a statute giving the claims of the United States priority over all other claims against a decedent's estate. 31 U.S.C. § 3713(a)(1)(B). That priority would apparently extend to taxes for which no return had been filed before death and for which no assessment had been made, and so give the United States priority over other creditors even in the absence of a lien.)
Also, under 3713(b), if the representative (e.g., the executor) of an estate pays any debt of the estate before paying the government claim, the representative is generally liable for the unpaid government claim. Personal liability for the unpaid tax. This is a provision I always try to remind people about, because of what I perceive as a persistent and dangerous tendency that many people have: the tendency to think about federal tax implications last instead of first.
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