World Financial Group

[Arthur Rubin]

Is this an MLM? I have an "interview" with them Tuesday (as they seem to have discovered that I'm looking for work -- not that I'm keeping that a secret), but their web site seems a bit vague as to what they actually do. It looks like MLM....

[wserra]

It does look like an MLM, but (as you say) they're being coy. Still, if it isn't, why don't you get access to the fine print without a "recruiter's ID"? Why does anyone care, unless there is compensation for recruiting?

Even if not an MLM, it looks like a commission-only deal, not a very secure living (and one which gives considerable incentive to abuse one's family and friends). While I only spent five minutes or so on their site, I was looking for the terms controlling compensation and couldn't find them. That's pretty suspicious.

Good luck, Arthur.

[Doc Bunkum]

Run WFG through the search engine at RipOffReports for some good info.

I see that World Financial Group, Aegon, Transamerica, are all the same outfit.

In other words, insurance of some sort.

I've had experience with the last two mentioned above.

[ASITStands]

Check the entry at Wikipedia.

Originally founded by Hubert Humphrey, World Financial Group began when Humphrey and his associates left A. L. Williams for what was considered "greener pastures" at the time.

It's not worked out that well. A. L. Williams was an insurance agency, variously representing insurance and mutual fund companies over the years, that promoted the "Buy term and invest the difference!" concept. Humphrey came from a long, line of Amway distributors, and once he joined A. L. Williams, he quickly became the leader in sales and recruiting.

It is not strictly a multilevel marketing company, because of restrictions in the insurance and brokerage industries, but it's very similar. It's a sales and marketing agency.

Last I looked, their products were very expensive (variable life insurance and annuities, as well as a mix of consumer debt programs), and they sold to the upscale part of society.

[Arthur Rubin]

Last I looked, their products were very expensive (variable life insurance and annuities, as well as a mix of consumer debt programs), and they sold to the upscale part of society.

Definitely commission-based, with managers getting about 50% of the "associates" commission. (It also appears, from some of the fine print in the PowerPoint presentation, that the commission on a whole-life product is over 100% of the first year's premium. I'm not sure how the life insurance company stays in business, with those numbers.)

It also included the phrases "working smart" vs. "working hard", and "you have to work hard to make money [with this company]")

One of the slides stated that there is no "recruitment bonus", but there is an non-refundable up-front fee of $100 to "cover the cost" of the financial status application. (I may be misremembering the name).

[ASITStands]

Last I looked, their products were very expensive (variable life insurance and annuities, as well as a mix of consumer debt programs), and they sold to the upscale part of society.

Definitely commission-based, with managers getting about 50% of the "associates" commission. (It also appears, from some of the fine print in the PowerPoint presentation, that the commission on a whole-life product is over 100% of the first year's premium. I'm not sure how the life insurance company stays in business, with those numbers.)

It also included the phrases "working smart" vs. "working hard", and "you have to work hard to make money [with this company]")

Was it described as whole life or variable life? I remember it being variable life.

Commissions on life insurance products are often over 100%

It's factored into the rate that policies are kept (called persistence), so it's the commissions over several years which are based on how long it takes the company to recoup the cost.

Even term (which are considered "temporary") are normally kept seven years.

Property and Casualty Insurance sells itself (auto, home, liability, etc.) but Life Insurance usually has to be sold. That's why the commissions are higher on life than P&C.

Most insurance companies pay big bucks for an established agency, and with an agency that focuses on recruiting new sales people, they'll pay even bigger commissions.

[Arthur Rubin]

I'm pretty sure the slide said "whole life" rather than variable life, and that over 100% is the first-line "associate"'s commission. His/her manager also gets about the same amount, if I can remember my immediate calculations at the time.

[ASITStands]

I'm pretty sure the slide said "whole life" rather than variable life, and that over 100% is the first-line "associate"'s commission. His/her manager also gets about the same amount, if I can remember my immediate calculations at the time.

World Financial Group (WFG) is part of Aegon USA. The structure of WFG mimics a MLM structure, with upline producers. They will encourage you to sell primarily Western Reserve Life policies and they will try and get you to fixate on a few hot products to generate commissions - currently it is EIUL on the life insurance side. Also, the commissions are paid to WFG, which then pays its reps,

Very high turnover and many of their registered representatives work part time. In the realm of insurance/mutual fund sales they are quite near the bottom.

I would avoid them like the plague.

Also, while most places CLAIM thy do financial planning, they almost all fall into two categories - stock jockey houses, or life insurance mills. Each will promise the sun, moon and stars and tell you how you can make huge money. Truth is, most people are out of the business in 5 years or less and will have broken even financially, if they are lucky.

With any organization, if you listen carefully, you can determine what it is they want to push.

Mass Mutual's new hires are not even getting their Series 6 licenses, as Mass Mutual wants them to push whole life, UL, EIUL as well as fixed and EI annuities.

Ah! But did they sell the "dream?" That's the real product! That's the real objective.

The "dream" is being in business for yourself, having the opportunity to make the "big bucks," like those who went before you, and never being among the poor again. The "dream" is doing something special with your life and offering the same kind of opportunity to others.

I have Hubert's book, "The Magic of Compound Recruiting." It's fascinating.

[Arthur Rubin]

Ah! But did they sell the "dream?" That's the real product! That's the real objective.

The "dream" is being in business for yourself, having the opportunity to make the "big bucks," like those who went before you, and never being among the poor again. The "dream" is doing something special with your life and offering the same kind of opportunity to others.

I have Hubert's book, "The Magic of Compound Recruiting." It's fascinating.

Exactly, although they also pushed the dream of helping others with their financial problems, not necessarily by the same type of opportunity, but by debt restructuring and proper financial planning.

[Arthur Rubin]

Would you believe, another one has come after me?

Is Waddell & Reed (Wikipedia:Waddell and Reed) in the same vein, except that the Wikipedia articles seems to have been written by their own people.

So far, they have been unable to contact me at the phone number I gave them; they only tried the cell number listed under monster.com, twice, after I gave them the preferred contact number, so I was planning to write them off as clueless even if they were a real investment company.

[Arthur Rubin]

Waddell and Reed is real, but I don't think it is considered one of your big players in the field, although I seem to remember that they actually do a bit of actual financial planning..

Even if they're not an MLM, they seem to be looking for independent sales representatives, rather than employees. If I'm going to go independent, it should be in something I know something about, like taxes.