Not a person and no SSN De-Tax scams

[searcher]

Hopefully the following will fit into this thread. If not,by all means delete it. There is a case,UNITED STATES of America and Richard J. Mozdziak, Revenue Officer, Internal Revenue Service, Plaintiffs,v. William M. SLATER, Defendant.
545 F.Supp. 179 (1982)

"The gravamen of Slater's argument in this regard is that he is not a "person" within the meaning of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, as amended, and that he is therefore not liable to pay federal taxes."
I understand the case well enough to know the Court disagreed with all of slater's arguments but the Court said something else thay caught my eye.
The Court also said, in pertinent part: > "Unless the defendant can establish that he is not a citizen of the United States, the IRS possesses authority to attempt to determine his federal tax liability.

Is there a lawful way to establish that you or I are not a citizen of the United States? I see no way to establish something we are, into something we are not, & yet it seems it is possible to do this,or the Court would not have made that statement,i.e., "Unless the defendant can establish that he is not a citizen of the United States, the IRS possesses authority to attempt to determine his federal tax liability."

I am in possession of a letter from the S.S.A. that says in pertinent part; A person that does not have a S.S.N. does not have any taxable income." The only thing I can conclude from that statement is, a person that does not have a S.S.N. will not have ANY income to be taxed. Help me out on this one dear Quatloos members. Am I also a member? I know I have been promoted to, scalawag, & that is all I know.Sorry to digress.

[searcher]

Re: > thay caught my eye. Sorry, this should say,that, not thay. That caught my eye,got my attention, made me look twice,etc.

[searcher]

Re: >Then, next April, DO NOT FILE.

Well it helps me out a little to know there is someone dumber than I am. Goodness gracious, what a stupid remark. Don't file.

[Pottapaug1938]

Is there a lawful way to establish that you or I are not a citizen of the United States? I see no way to establish something we are, into something we are not, & yet it seems it is possible to do this,or the Court would not have made that statement,i.e., "Unless the defendant can establish that he is not a citizen of the United States, the IRS possesses authority to attempt to determine his federal tax liability."

Sure! If you were born within any of the states which form a part of the United States, you are a citizen of the United States and of any state where you choose to reside, per the 14th Amendment, unless you were born here to people like foreign diplomats. You can also attain naturalized citizenship. In the court case cited by you, the defendant was invited to show that none of those situations applied to him.

[Famspear]

....I am in possession of a letter from the S.S.A. that says in pertinent part; A person that does not have a S.S.N. does not have any taxable income."

No, I do not believe you have a letter from the Social Security Administration that says any such thing.

Further, having or not having a social security number does not determine whether you have any taxable income.

[Cathulhu]

First of all, the SSA does not have authority to state what income is taxable. I also do not believe that searcher has the letter he says he has, since that goes completely outside the authority of the SSA. Secondly, having an SSN has nothing to do with taxable income except to put a convenient account number on it, so that all the people with similar names don't get mixed up. Thirdly, being a citizen of the USA means your worldwide income is taxable in the USA. Fourth, non-citizens are taxed on their US income, and generally have ITINs rather than SSNs. What part of that is so hard to understand?

Searcher, you've obviously built yourself a nice delusional theory of "Why I'm Right" (since I've worked previously in the mental health field when I was a social worker, it's terribly familiar to me) and you're so very busy looking for validation that someone who isn't a voice in your head might provide. Sorry, but since you're completely wrong, you won't get your outdated, over-rationalized idiocies validated here.

[The Observer]

I think searcher has a letter from SSA - but I don't think the letter says what searcher thinks it says.

[notorial dissent]

Well, Searcher can always post a copy of the document, at this point it is put up or shut up!

[darling]

Is there a lawful way to establish that you or I are not a citizen of the United States?

https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... expatriate

[Quixote]

Is there a lawful way to establish that you or I are not a citizen of the United States?

Of course. If you are not a citizen of the US, you were either born in a foreign country or born in the US to foreign diplomats. Either of those can be established with a birth certificate.

In the context of your post, you seem to have been asking if there is any way for a US citizen to prove he is not a US citizen. For reasons that should be obvious to anyone, but which apparently are not obvious to you, that is not possible without committing fraud.

[searcher]

Searcher, you've obviously built yourself a nice delusional theory of "Why I'm Right"

If I KNEW I was right, I would have no need to ask for help from you to help me understand. I find it hard to believe that ALL of what I post is read, by the responses I get back. Everytime I say I have something, the response is, "I doubt it, or, I don't believe it." Well, here IS one thing I do know I'm right about, I am honest. I am not a liar. I am looking for the letter from the S.S.D. I remember it was signed by, Diane Barnes. I am not sure if I remember the correct spelling of her first name. Maybe it was, Diahane. I just hope I can find it. I remember writing these words on the letter: > "No S.S.N., No taxable income, hmmm interesting." Anyway, I saw something earlier, I think it was from webhick, that said, we are a scam prevention site not a public relations bureau, or something to that effect. Anyway, I do recall scam prevention site. So, when I find the S.S.A. letter I will try, with your help, to email or however it's done, send a copy & I'll say goodbye like we said hello, in a friendly kind of way. I know the letter is somewhere, I just don't know where.

[The Observer]

searcher, I have no doubt that you could find a copy of that purported letter on the 'Net. It shouldn't be that hard to find.

[searcher]

P.S. In the meantime, I promise not to waste anymore of your time by posting anymore, as you call it, gibberish,etc. The one exception will be re: the S.S.A. Letter, & that will be it. Since this is a scam prevention site, maybe I'm not asking to much by asking how I may make a donation to Quatloos. I have been victimized by scams too but mostly by those who I thought were my friends. So, maybe I can be of "some" help, by making a donation.

[wserra]

how I may make a donation to Quatloos.

A scan of that "letter from the S.S.A. that says in pertinent part; A person that does not have a S.S.N. does not have any taxable income" will be donation enough.

Hell does not seem to be in the process of freezing over.

[Cpt Banjo]

I understand the case well enough to know the Court disagreed with all of slater's arguments but the Court said something else thay caught my eye.
The Court also said, in pertinent part: > "Unless the defendant can establish that he is not a citizen of the United States, the IRS possesses authority to attempt to determine his federal tax liability."

Of course, even if one isn't a citizen of the United States one is still subject to federal taxes if he earns compensation-for-work within the United States (subject to minor exceptions). So trying to argue you aren't a citizen in such circumstances is pointless. See Sections 861(a)(3) and 872(a) of the Code.

[Gregg]

Searcher, you've obviously built yourself a nice delusional theory of "Why I'm Right"

If I KNEW I was right, I would have no need to ask for help from you to help me understand. I find it hard to believe that ALL of what I post is read, by the responses I get back. Everytime I say I have something, the response is, "I doubt it, or, I don't believe it." Well, here IS one thing I do know I'm right about, I am honest. I am not a liar. I am looking for the letter from the S.S.D. I remember it was signed by, Diane Barnes. I am not sure if I remember the correct spelling of her first name. Maybe it was, Diahane. I just hope I can find it. I remember writing these words on the letter: > "No S.S.N., No taxable income, hmmm interesting." Anyway, I saw something earlier, I think it was from webhick, that said, we are a scam prevention site not a public relations bureau, or something to that effect. Anyway, I do recall scam prevention site. So, when I find the S.S.A. letter I will try, with your help, to email or however it's done, send a copy & I'll say goodbye like we said hello, in a friendly kind of way. I know the letter is somewhere, I just don't know where.

You, in your tiny little mind, are in fact sure that you are right and your pathetic need for validation is why you post the nonsense you do. You're trying to show us that you're smarter than all of us.

Well, t'aint true, sorry about that Sparky.

[darling]

Of course. If you are not a citizen of the US, you were either born in a foreign country or born in the US to foreign diplomats. Either of those can be established with a birth certificate.

Except that a birth certificate showing that you were born in, say, Bulgaria, does not prove that you are not a U.S. Citizen.

You'd also have to prove that your parents were not U.S. citizens.
Or, you'd have to prove that your parents were U.S. citizens, but never resident in the U.S.
And so on.

That may be why the court is giving the defendant an opportunity to establish such a thing.

[searcher]

To: The Observer,
Thanks for your comment,especially for not implying that I am a liar. In searching for the letter, I mentioned,which I have not found yet, BUT, I did come across another letter, I am now holding in my hand, & in pertinent part it says:
Department of Health & Human Services (< all caps). In the top right hand corner, it says, Social Security Administration. The date on the letter is, January 10th,1986. Now this is the reason, I mention this. This letter is written to Jerome T. Schiefen, & signed by a, Penny Payton. I went to Google Search, & a letter came up that has everything exactly as the letter I am holding EXCEPT, It says in the top right hand corner, Social Security Act, & not Social Security Adminstration, The other difference is the date. The letter that came up on the web search says,January 10, 1990. Maybe what I have, & the letter that came up on the search are both forgeries. I thought about this, after the comments made implying that I am not telling the truth. I just tried to cut & paste this "web" letter to send you but "most" of it looked like a foreign language. This probably won't be believed either, but I am sure if I can get the letter to come up, ANYONE can. Goodby Friends.
P.S. The web letter does say, a person with no S.S. number would have no taxable income.

[Cpt Banjo]

It wasn't hard to find this letter -- here's a link: http://privateaudio.homestead.com/Docum ... 3_2012.pdf

There's nothing to indicate that the letter is genuine. In any event, the statement that if one doesn't have a SSN one doesn't have taxable income is completely wrong.

[Pottapaug1938]

I would also say that I would require an appellate court decision which has not been modified restrictively, or overturned, before I would accept the premise that one cannot have taxable income if one does not have a SSN. A letter from the Social Security people just won't do, because it has not been tested in court.