Moncton shooting / Justin Bourque

[Lambkin]

http://globalnews.ca/news/1374998/rcmp- ... n-reports/

The RCMP in Moncton, N.B. says three of its officers were killed and two were injured after a man opened fire Wednesday night.

Police are searching for 24-year-old Justin Bourque who is allegedly carrying high-powered rifles, a crossbow and knife. He is considered dangerous.

The RCMP tweeted that three of its officers were “mortally wounded” and police spokesman Paul Greene confirmed that they are dead.

[Lambkin]

Not exactly your typical freeman, but a violent gun-toting anti-government right-wing conspiracy nut.

https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682

[JamesVincent]

Not exactly your typical freeman, but a violent gun-toting anti-government right-wing conspiracy nut.

https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682

Didn't see too much in the way of conspiracy theories. And, to be honest, several of the memes he had on his page have floated across mine before, either by me or my friends. Now the poetry, or whatever that is, dude doesn't seem to be all there.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

At present I agree with Lambkin's assessment. I don't see any clear indications of OPCA affiliation, and my quick case law search did not turn up anything.

SMS Möwe

[notorial dissent]

Not every gun toting psychopath is a sovrun/FOTL/etc, some are just good old everyday psychopaths.

I see they are now getting close calling him a gun toting Rambo.

Monkton shooter

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

There's been some interesting media commentary on this case, drawing parallels between Bourque's social media profile and apparent beliefs with those held by the Freeman-on-the-Land movement.

• Moncton shooting accused may be a classic ‘pseudo-commando’ with anti-government Freeman ideology: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/05 ... -ideology/

I do not see a direct link but there is little question that there is much overlap between Bourque's beliefs and focii with those exhibited by certain persons who affiliate with OPCA movements.

Take Paul Fiola of the Grande Prairie squatting incident (viewtopic.php?f=48&t=9579). His Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/LeetPrime8) has strong parallels to that of Bourque. Same obsessions about conspiracy, malevolent government authority, and that fixation on access and use of firearms against 'the enemy' for 'self-defence'.

Also interesting is it appears someone in the media managed to track down Robert Menard for an 'official' comment on whether Bourque is or is not a Freeman (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/05 ... encounter/):

Mr. Bourque’s social media presence is a mix of gun glamourization and wry anti-establishment, libertarian political commentary, critical of everything from police to cultural narcissism to Canada-Russia relations. Laced with lyrics and poetry, the profile smacks of Freemen ideology, though that group’s leader, Robert Menard, said Mr. Bourque was not an active member.

Emphasis added.

It's a pity the interview does not comment on whether Menard approves or disapproves of Bourque's conduct, particularly in light of Menard's recent Youtube video.

SMS Möwe

[arayder]

There's been some interesting media commentary on this case, drawing parallels between Bourque's social media profile and apparent beliefs with those held by the Freeman-on-the-Land movement. . .

. . . Also interesting is it appears someone in the media managed to track down Robert Menard for an 'official' comment on whether Bourque is or is not a Freeman (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/05 ... encounter/):

Mr. Bourque’s social media presence is a mix of gun glamourization and wry anti-establishment, libertarian political commentary, critical of everything from police to cultural narcissism to Canada-Russia relations. Laced with lyrics and poetry, the profile smacks of Freemen ideology, though that group’s leader, Robert Menard, said Mr. Bourque was not an active member.

Emphasis added.

It's a pity the interview does not comment on whether Menard approves or disapproves of Bourque's conduct, particularly in light of Menard's recent Youtube video.

SMS Möwe

One of the National Post articles speculates that Bourque may have used a phony 911 call to lure the authorities into an ambush. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/05 ... -ideology/

It seems poor Bobby, having just made a phony 911 call in Toronto, has managed to step into another PR turd pile.

[notorial dissent]

I just really don't see the FOTL/sovrun angle really jumping out at me here. I do see a fully fledged conspiracist(always a bad sign), and more like a survivalist/anti-gov't/militiaoid subtext(again not a good sign), those are the ones we tend to watch around here as they end up shooting me people. I mean, he may have flirted with the FOTL crowd for a bit, but I suspect he found them too wet and limp for his taste and he moved on to other pastures. It will be interesting to see what he has to say now that he is in custody.

[arayder]

. . .It will be interesting to see what he has to say now that he is in custody.

And I am sure they'll go through his computer too. It ought to yield some interesting connections.

His Facebook Page is still up: https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682?fref=ts

The page is chock full of anti-cop and gun rights materials, as one might expect.

[Lambkin]

I just really don't see the FOTL/sovrun angle really jumping out at me here.

If he were the real deal, you would think he would have more of a paper trail. FOTL types always seem to create a lot of noise in the system.

[notorial dissent]

That's why I say he doesn't strike me as the FOTL type. You're right, they do usually leave a messy paper trail, kind of like pigeons, you can always tell where they've been, as they are mostly all blather and not bite. This one just doesn't fit the profile. What he does fit is even scarier.

[LordEd]

Something like how freemen usually have several other semi-common "additional" beliefs attached. Mr. Ream was also interested heavily in "natural" miracle products (that some of which happen to be illegal) and the whole GMO/Monsanto thing. Freemanism just attracts people who also believe the government/companies are trying to kill/poision him (possibly personally), or destroy the world for fun.

Mr. Bourque's 'core' is violent anti-government. He's the kind of person Freemanism attracts, but his 'core' belief is 'violent anti-government'. Ream, Dean, or Menard are 'I have special magic powers' with a side order of 'government sucks'.

[arayder]

Something like how freemen usually have several other semi-common "additional" beliefs attached. Mr. Ream was also interested heavily in "natural" miracle products (that some of which happen to be illegal) and the whole GMO/Monsanto thing. Freemanism just attracts people who also believe the government/companies are trying to kill/poision him (possibly personally), or destroy the world for fun.

Mr. Bourque's 'core' is violent anti-government. He's the kind of person Freemanism attracts, but his 'core' belief is 'violent anti-government'. Ream, Dean, or Menard are 'I have special magic powers' with a side order of 'government sucks'.

As I have often posited before freemnary's contribution to such belief systems is the dehumanization of judges and police officers.

[Hilfskreuzer Möwe]

Amusingly, Rob is now posting a stream of email exchanges between him and the National Post reporter who had cited analysis that Bourque's beliefs were "freeman-like": http://www.facebook.com/groups/10230158 ... 498721701/

Oh, the outrage:

Robert Menard
[June 6, 2014]
jbrean@nationalpost.com

Dear Sir,

I am Robert Arthur Menard, a Freeman on the Land and Peace Officer with the Canadian Common Corps of Peace Officers.

I am writing to address the recent article by Joseph Brean on June 6, 2014, where without any supporting evidence it was speculated that Justin Bourque was a member of our group, and shared our ideology. I assure you his violence means he is not a member of our group for his actions were a compete abandonment of our most basic tenet of do no harm. We advocate the use of lawful, peaceful means to achieve positive change. We advocate education, non violent civil disobedience, use of the courts and discussion and negotiation. We recognize that many situations are resolved by the use of compassion, and seek to treat all with dignity and respect. We are not anti-government, we are pro-good government, and do not in any way support, condone, or advocate the use of violence to achieve change.

The standard procedure for Freemen when dealing with police is to act with respect and dignity, and in the face of an unjust arrest, to submit under protest and duress in order to reserve all rights, and then settle the matter in court. The Freeman movement was in fact brought about by concerned Canadians who recognized a growing police state, and saw the danger that could create when unstable, emotionally undeveloped people grew past a point of frustration, where in their mind, violence would become the answer. We saw the danger of this, have been warning about it, and trying to bridge the growing gap between police and the citizenry. To now claim that we are in anyway the cause of this violence, to try to link us in anyway with it is grossly unjust. Painting the Freeman movement as violent, and in anyway responsible for or supportive of this tragedy, crosses the line into hate speech. If Justin has a SIN, then he was not a Freeman. Maybe you should claim that all SIN holders are similarly likely to resort to violence as he has far more in common with them than he does any Freeman I know.

Worst of all, that article was such a dismal example of journalism, because what we should be talking about is the growing militarization of our police, and the inevitable division this paradigm will cause in society. It is a failure of the true duty of journalism. Instead of rational discourse, we get unsupported speculation which seeks to place blame on parties not even peripherally involved, to attack their political beliefs. Blaming the Freeman movement in anyway for this tragedy is akin to blaming a canary in a coal mine for deaths caused by poor mining practises.

Sincerely,
Robert Arthur Menard
Director, World Freeman Society

Huh. Isn't this the same Robert-Arthur: Menard who was a very short time ago suggesting armed C3PO's in response to the police-related incident he had in the last week?

(There are a couple more email back-and-forths at the link above.)

Perhaps someone should point out that video and commentary to Mr. Brean. That is, unless Rob has already deleted those. Oh no, it's still there, for now.

SMS Möwe

[arayder]

Exactly!

The plain fact of the matter is just a few days ago Menard used a phony 911 call to conduct a video ambush of the Toronto police. Afterwards he suggested he would have been justified in using armed force to resist the cops he suckered into the situation. He even put a message on the Toronto police Facebook page saying so!

If the reports of Bourgue's actions are accurate the difference between Bourque and Menard is that Bourgue shot the cops when they showed up!

[Jeffrey]

I hate to side with Menard on this one but I think his outrage towards the National Post article is justified. The argument in that article is that A. the shooter was anti-government B. Freemen are anti-government therefore C. there is is some connection between the shooter and Freemen.

It was ridiculous, uncalled for and bad journalism. There are dozens of groups that are anti-government, you wouldn't link Freemen and Menard if it had been a Muslim extremist that shot those cops. And come on, there's no comparison between Menard wasting cops' time with a phony 9/11 call and a guy using a 9/11 call to bait cops into an ambush then murdering them.

I get that there's some clear overlap between Justin and Menard. Justin was pro-gun and Menard has on multiple occasions said he is against Canadian gun control legislation, gun licenses, gun registration etc. Menard screwed up royally in his email by mentioning "the militarization of police" when that's one of the things Justin complained about on his Facebook.

There's no disputing that Menard's theories can and do lead to violence but this isn't a case of that.

If the Post wants to write an article on Freemen and violence it should be a separate article and if he hits us with an email we can give him a compendium of instances where Menard and the Freemen endorse the use of violence. You have the NOUICOR scheme where Menard promised that as long as you have one in place, you have the right to use any level of force against a police officer and the courts would be unable to touch you. In the C3PO scheme there was also the implied threat of violence including threats of gun violence against cops; of course he only claims the peace officers will be armed at lectures, when interviewed by mainstream news he denies they'd be armed.

For concrete examples, there's the Dean Clifford case where he's beat up at least five cops directly operating under Menard's advice that it's legal to resist an arrest as long as they think it's an unlawful arrest.

[arayder]

There's no disputing that Menard's theories can and do lead to violence but this isn't a case of that.

Since the authorities have not been through Bourge's computer it remains to be seen.

Bobby seems awful nervous about the whole thing.

[Judge Roy Bean]

...
It was ridiculous, uncalled for and bad journalism. ...

Don't even get me started on what "journalism" has become and how it paints possibly dangerous nutballs as just some kind of odd personal-interest story.

The media, in general, is oblivious to the undercurrent of dangerous intent among the perpetrators.

The "wow, who'd of thunk it" reporting is representative of a news culture that thrives on superficial coverage.

[notorial dissent]

Much as it pains me, I think I have to agree with Jeffery here, the part about Menard being painful I mean, not Jeffrey. I thought his post was, very surprisingly a very lucid and spirited defense, particularly from Bobby, of FOTL and that Bourque was not one, and was actually valid, scary as that may be. I do think the "journalist" conflated two idiotologies together to find a connection where there may not have been more than at best a tenuous one. We won't know for sure until Bourque's computer and blatherings have been gone over with a fine comb, as I am certain they will be, but I really don't think he is one of Bobby’s collection of peace warriors.

I do find it amusing that in that whole long collection of coherent righteous outrage, that we still had the same old bobby, lying with nearly every breath as all his underlying comments were flat out lies.

I suspect that bobby is quite rightly nervous and fearful that someone, like the Police say, will find all those Youtubies that he made actually advocating arming his pretend warriors for peace, and actually coming to blows with the cops. Or his documented attempts to actually precipitate something. At least if I was him, I’d be right nervous right now, but then I wouldn't have done any of the things he's done either, so there we are.

As I’ve said before, Bobby is a liar.

[arayder]

. . .I suspect that bobby is quite rightly nervous and fearful that someone, like the Police say, will find all those Youtubies that he made actually advocating arming his pretend warriors for peace, and actually coming to blows with the cops. Or his documented attempts to actually precipitate something. At least if I was him, I’d be right nervous right now, but then I wouldn't have done any of the things he's done either, so there we are.. . .

Well the police certainly should suspect that Bobby, from time to time, advocates violence. After all he posted this on the Toronto Police Facebook page:

"The video of a juiced up, uber-agro officer I captured yesterday, being uploaded to youtube now, supports the claim that the people of Canada need to hire true peace officers, arm them, and have them stand against goons such as him."

https://www.facebook.com/TorontoPolice?sk=reviews

What a Menard!