The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

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arayder
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Burnaby49 wrote:
arayder wrote:So, ninja, are you saying you know what happened to the money and just won't tell?
Who cares? It is/was their money and what they did with it is only relevant to the contributors. If they aren't complaining then what use was made of it is irrelevant.
Menard and his minions promoted projects like freeman valley, the consumer credit association, the C3PO and what Bobby said where to be several landmark legal actions.

He asked for cash donations and contributions in the form of work. Bobby even claimed to have a business plan. Not that he followed it.

Over the years members and interested visitors to the site and the forum asked how the projects were getting along, only to be put off with excuses, the saddest of which was Menard's use of his father's illnesses and eventual death as the reason the consumer credit association never got off the ground.

Bobby's other response was to mumble during a YouTube that there were perfectly acceptable reasons why none of the projects got off the ground. So what were they, ninja? Didn't Bobby tell you, ninja?

Didn't members asking about the money have their posts removed by the moderators? The same moderators who shared IP addresses with Menard so he could mis-use them?

What was your role in all this ninja?
Last edited by arayder on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by JamesVincent »

Burnaby49 wrote:
[16] When Mr. Meads married Ms. Meads, he said he was told he required a marriage license to avoid commission of incest, but he has subsequently learned, from Black's Law Dictionary, that a licence is an authorization to do something that is otherwise illegal.
Bolding added

How does that even work? Seriously....
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

arayder wrote:What was your role in all this ninja?
Could be moderator on a public forum. Unless you are attempting to assign me a different role.

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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

bmxninja357 wrote:
arayder wrote:What was your role in all this ninja?
Could be moderator on a public forum. Unless you are attempting to assign me a different role.

Ninj
Did you ever ban forum visitors who asked tough questions about the projects and donations made for them?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by JamesVincent »

Could we stop with the pissing contest? It adds absolutely nothing to the thread.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

"JamesVincent"
[16] When Mr. Meads married Ms. Meads, he said he was told he required a marriage license to avoid commission of incest, but he has subsequently learned, from Black's Law Dictionary, that a licence is an authorization to do something that is otherwise illegal.
Seriously? You use "seriously" in this context?

Mr. Meads just puked up a huge grab-bag of bullshit spoon-fed to him by an unknown outside source with apparently no understanding of what any of it was supposed to mean; as if anybody else did. When it didn't work he caved. I'm told that after this decision came out (threatening him with possible contempt of court if he continued) he shed Freemanism like a snake sheds its skin and became a model divorce proceedings party. Win some lose some.

However Mr. Meads' desperate doomed attempts to evade his legal responsibilities weren't all in vain! Meads v Meads is much much more than a minor decision in respect to a trivial problem with an obstructionist husband in a divorce hearing. It is a 188 page PHD thesis on the history of Canadian OPCA beliefs, gurus, and jurisprudence. It has become the cited defining basis of almost all subsequent Freeman/OPCA decisions in Canada and has been cited, with approval, in numerous other countries. The gift that keeps on giving.

So why was Mr. Meads chosen out of the multitudes of other Freeman/OPCA cases the courts of Alberta faced to become the leading authority on the Freeman/OPCA litigation? Refer back to my original comment about the "huge grab-bag of bullshit" Mr. Mead tried to rely on. Meads himself provided the rope on which he was hung!
[5] The Meads case illustrates many characteristic features of OPCA materials, in court conduct, and litigation strategies. These Reasons will, therefore, explain my June 8, 2012 decision and provide analysis and reasoning that is available for reference and application to other similar proceedings.

[6] Naturally, my conclusions are important for these parties. However, they also are intended to assist others, who have been taken in/duped by gurus, to realize that these practices are entirely ineffective; to empower opposing parties and their counsel to take action; and as a warning to gurus that the Court will not tolerate their misconduct.

[53] There is a third reason for a broad-based decision and analysis. It so happens that Mr. Meads has provided a remarkable and well developed assortment of OPCA documents, concepts, materials, and strategies. These materials also illustrate particular idiosyncrasies that this and other Courts have identified as associated with the OPCA community and OPCA litigation. Phrased differently, Mr. Meads materials and approach provide an ideal type specimen for examination and commentary, which should be instructive to other OPCA litigants who have been taken in by these ideas, opposing parties and their counsel, as well as gurus.

[54] Mr. Meads submissions also make an excellent subject for a global review of the law concerning OPCA, the OPCA community and its gurus, and how the court, lawyers, and litigants should respond to these vexatious practices and the persons who advance and advocate these techniques and ideas. In this sense, the present case management allows the litigation between Mr. and Ms. Meads to explore the OPCA community and its concepts, for the benefit of this and other Canadian Courts, and litigants appearing before the courts.
As a unrelated note of interest the term "Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument" (OPCA) which has now become the standard description of a universe of diverse but casually related claimed beliefs, apparently originated with Justice Rooke and the Meads decision. I've searched and found no prior reference;
[1] This Court has developed a new awareness and understanding of a category of vexatious litigant. As we shall see, while there is often a lack of homogeneity, and some individuals or groups have no name or special identity, they (by their own admission or by descriptions given by others) often fall into the following descriptions: Detaxers; Freemen or Freemen-on-the-Land; Sovereign Men or Sovereign Citizens; Church of the Ecumenical Redemption International (CERI); Moorish Law; and other labels - there is no closed list. In the absence of a better moniker, I have collectively labelled them as Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument litigants [OPCA litigants], to functionally define them collectively for what they literally are. These persons employ a collection of techniques and arguments promoted and sold by gurus (as hereafter defined) to disrupt court operations and to attempt to frustrate the legal rights of governments, corporations, and individuals.
Note - A whole whack of editing numbers at the bottom. These are not based on me revising my own comments but on my total incompetence to handle the quote function. Somehow I ended up with me quoting my own prior paragraphs and James was buried in a layer of quotes. Giving me access to website options is like giving a child a gun.
Last edited by Burnaby49 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

JamesVincent wrote:Could we stop with the pissing contest? It adds absolutely nothing to the thread.
Exactly what I was trying to say.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Sorry, boys. Just trying to establish ninja's role in the coverup of the misdeeds at wfs.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Burnaby49 »

Whether there were misdeeds at wfs and whether ninja had any role in them is pure speculation. Grilling him here won't resolve any of that. Unlike obvious trolls like Patriotdiscussions or antagonistic fools like Belanger (aka cudgel) he's actually trying to contribute and he has valuable insider insight. He should be allowed his say without collateral attacks irrelevant to the issues being discussed. I have my differences with him and his opinions but I don't consider him to be a hostile witness. As a personal comment I don't consider any suspected financial irregularities at wfs to be of any concern to this discussion or to Quatloos.
"Yes Burnaby49, I do in fact believe all process servers are peace officers. I've good reason to believe so." Robert Menard in his May 28, 2015 video "Process Servers".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeI-J2PhdGs
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

Thank you burnaby49. My intentions here are not nefarious. I'm here to learn and sort out things. I'm not here to argue irrelevant things. I do feel obligated to respond when the issue at hand is relavant to me.

I shall try not to engage in irrelavncies in the future.

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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by notorial dissent »

I think it is immensely ironic, that a triviality, the Meads, erected a major legal landmark.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

Burnaby49 wrote:Whether there were misdeeds at wfs and whether ninja had any role in them is pure speculation. Grilling him here won't resolve any of that. Unlike obvious trolls like Patriotdiscussions or antagonistic fools like Belanger (aka cudgel) he's actually trying to contribute and he has valuable insider insight. He should be allowed his say without collateral attacks irrelevant to the issues being discussed. I have my differences with him and his opinions but I don't consider him to be a hostile witness. As a personal comment I don't consider any suspected financial irregularities at wfs to be of any concern to this discussion or to Quatloos.
The donations for several badly failed WFS projects remain unaccounted for. I simply point out the comic irony of a prominent member of that society coming here to claim the organization is all about good, open governance.

I will leave it at that for now. . .
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by wserra »

bmxninja357 wrote:freeman on the land believes in good, responsible governance
They just have their own definitions of "good" and "responsible".
"A wise man proportions belief to the evidence."
- David Hume
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by notorial dissent »

I'm still trying to figure out which remainder bargain basement they stole it, their dictionary, from, so I can avoid it.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by JamesVincent »

Burnaby49 wrote:
JamesVincent wrote:Could we stop with the pissing contest? It adds absolutely nothing to the thread.
Exactly what I was trying to say.
I'm more direct then you are normally Burnaby.
Whether there were misdeeds at wfs and whether ninja had any role in them is pure speculation. Grilling him here won't resolve any of that. Unlike obvious trolls like Patriotdiscussions or antagonistic fools like Belanger (aka cudgel) he's actually trying to contribute and he has valuable insider insight. He should be allowed his say without collateral attacks irrelevant to the issues being discussed. I have my differences with him and his opinions but I don't consider him to be a hostile witness. As a personal comment I don't consider any suspected financial irregularities at wfs to be of any concern to this discussion or to Quatloos.
Agree 100%. Personally I could care less that what they do causes their own forum to self-destruct, it affects Quatloos not at all. The only point I will cede to the discussion is that it shows they have an issue with paying their bills, other then that it shows nothing as far as ideals.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

The "we are about good government" line is a dodge Menard made popular when he had to explain away folks like Andreas Pirelli and the Grande Prairie squatters.

Faced with a public relations disaster Menard decided he might make it sound like he was some sort of progressive good government type who was just being misunderstood.

The dodge sounded good to the few small gnawing mammals left on the freeman ship, so we are hearing their squeaks now.

The fact is Menard first floated his Freeman Valley plan on the notion that he and few freemen could squat on some public land in northwest Canada. Since Bobby never bother to report back to the freeman gullible on the illegality and impracticality of taking land that doesn't belong to you, the freeman movement simply rolled along with the bad idea. . .until an old lady in Calgary and several trappers in Alberta were harmed.
Last edited by arayder on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by bmxninja357 »

oh jeeze, really? the sad fact is i heard the words good governance uttered years ago when the whole fotl thing was new. morons like perelli came what, about 10 years later? and for that matter how come the infamous perelli did not have even the word freeman appear once on his very wordy website?

i like how your making stuff up based solely on opinion.

and for that matter i have read posts by certain folks encouraging things to the effect of freemen should go up north and live in the bush. but again your even misappropriating blame for that. a wfs member was involved, in his private business with trying to do what many had suggested. where exactly can you attribute this to menard?

i have to stop as the stupid is getting deep. i will only from here on respond to real legal, moral or ethical debate. unlike others i have no intent to simply make things up. im here to learn, not be pushed by those with no common sense.

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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by arayder »

The denial is strong in this one.

Menard has a history of influencing folks to do things he doesn't have the stones to do himself. Then he throws the dupes under the bus when the idea goes wrong. So it's no surprise he'll try to paint himself as a sane advocate of good government when those he's influenced are sent to ruin.

Besides the squatters I just noted there was the Nanaimo Three, who got the idea they could be peace officers from Menard only to be thrown under the bus by Bobby for alegedly not doing their freeman paper work right.

Menard tells the freeman cult they can ignore the cops that pull them over, but it's Dean Clifford who pays the price for the bad idea. Then Menard and Steve Bates gang up on Clifford implying he has a rage problem.

Hilfskreuzer Möwe has documented the outright lies Menard told prospective clients, claiming as courtroom successes what were really utter failures. When everyone found out the cases went bad Bobby said the judge was to blame!

Bobby's latest you-go-first ruse is to not so subtly urge wannabe C3POs to arm themselves in preparation for encounters with police officers!

Does anyone want to guess whether Bobby's carrying a pistol?
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by Jeffrey »

Let's stop antagonizing ninja. Doesn't do any good.
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Re: The S.S. World Freeman Society is listing, badly...

Post by wserra »

bmxninja357 wrote:i like how your making stuff up based solely on opinion.
OK, let's talk about "making stuff up".

As far as I know, the phrase "freeman on the land" has no legal meaning whatsoever. If you are aware of any court or legislature using it - other than as a label for someone of whom it disapproves - please educate me. In the absence of a legal meaning, perhaps you could describe what it means to you. It must mean more than just "good governance"; otherwise it would be the League of Women Voters. It must mean more than just "I want government to go away except when it has something I want"; otherwise it would be the Tea Party.

So what is a "freeman on the land"?
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