QEG : Has it reached "Over-unity"?

[DailyPlanet]

QEG : Has it reached "Over-unity"?

The same people who told you you had "Free Money" ($5 Billion each), are now telling you they will deliver "Free Energy".

Should we believe them ?

(from one of the Skypechat rooms):

: QEG Overunity: http://youtu.be/oJkNruMM6tE

Response
: Haha
: If it was truly "over-unity", why disable comments?
: Wouldnt the world be celebrating?
: I dont believe Hopegirl for a second - she outrageously over-promotes everything
: Nice try, though.
: Much better than the bogus UCC filings

[LightinDarkness]

This will be followed up by a call for more cash soon. And the prosperity/sov'run sphere really eats this stuff by the way, I saw people proclaiming the new age of free energy had arrived on reddit and other sites after they posted the last one when they turned it on.

It is, of course, technology cargo cult in action. I don't know whats actually going on here, but much like the last video it looks like they've simply charged up a battery to light the light bulbs and its taking in more energy than it is putting out.

[notorial dissent]

Pretty much, you got it in one. The thing is basically a jumped up poor quality battery charger.

[morrand]

It might be a battery charger, but I don't really think so. The "official" plans don't show anything that would work for that, and the measurements they're giving don't seem to back up the idea of any sort of battery being involved. However, an earlier video has a shot of a circuit diagram in it that is significantly different from the official plans, and it's quite possible that something along that line is, in fact, up.

Watching one of the "building of" videos, it sounds like their engineer is at least somewhat knowledgeable, having modified the circuit to put DC into a DC motor, rather than AC, and also to put fuses on the thing so it doesn't catch fire and burn the whole shop down. In the same video, one of the builders says they're converting the machine output from AC to DC, to feed into an inverter so it can be turned back into AC (which sounds stupid, but to their credit, this is basically a home-workshop form of frequency changer, so it's really no more stupid than building a perpetual motion machine).

The waveforms they show, if they can be trusted, show a power output of around 950 watts for a claimed input of 655 watts. That might be an over-unity condition, if true. Most likely, it is not. It is very hard to tell from the video what, exactly, they are measuring, but it's probably not what's going into the light bulb bank (1900 volts across five light bulbs tends not to be very friendly to the light bulbs, for one thing).

Whatever they are really showing, the fact that they're apparently able to light five and a half 100 W light bulbs for a 655 W input isn't really a ground-breaking outcome.

[AndyK]

It might be a battery charger, In the sense that it charges a battery enough that it can draw down on it when unplugges, thereby continuing to "run" but I don't really think so. The "official" plans don't show anything that would work for that, and the measurements they're giving don't seem to back up the idea of any sort of battery being involved. However, an earlier video has a shot of a circuit diagram in it that is significantly different from the official plans, and it's quite possible that something along that line is, in fact, up.

Watching one of the "building of" videos, it sounds like their engineer is at least somewhat knowledgeable, having modified the circuit to put DC into a DC motor, rather than AC, and also to put fuses on the thing so it doesn't catch fire and burn the whole shop down. In the same video, one of the builders says they're converting the machine output from AC to DC, to feed into an inverter with inherent power losses so it can be turned back into AC (which sounds stupid, but to their credit, this is basically a home-workshop form of frequency changer, so it's really no more stupid than building a perpetual motion machine).

The waveforms they show, if they can be trusted which they can't because the main gimmick of these machines is to throw high-frequency voltage spikes into the output, thereby confusing voltmeters which expect fairly stable inout AND creating truly neat wave forms on a scope which make it look like the overall output voltage is much higher than it really is -- especially to people who don't comprehend scope traces, show a power output of around 950 watts for a claimed input of 655 watts. That might be an over-unity condition, if true BUZZ !!!! Wrong !!! Not true. Bogus, deceptive and (like any other machine constrained by the physics of the real world -- UNDER unity. . Most likely, it is not. It is very hard to tell from the video what, exactly, they are measuring, but it's probably not what's going into the light bulb bank (1900 volts across five light bulbs tends not to be very friendly to the light bulbs, for one thing).

Whatever they are really showing, the fact that they're apparently able to light five and a half 100 W light bulbs for a 655 W input isn't really a ground-breaking outcome.

In any case, volt meters and scope traces aren't the tools to measure the thing. If they were honest (as if ), they'd have TWO watt-hour meters -- one on the input and one on the output -- to measure the POWER goiong in and coming out. However, they won't ever do this because (1) the results will show that it actually CONSUMES power due to electrical and physical resistance and (2) the two meters would tell the machine it wasn't being trusted, thereby casting a pall of negative vibrations over it.

[Deep Knight]

There are two reasons testing the QEG won't show the true truth.

1. Scientific testing relies on traditional units and laws, and thus is already biased against Quantum Zero and other non-traditional sources. Why should the QEGers use volts, amps, and Watt-hours when that would mean playing a game where the cards are stacked?

2. Testing implies doubt (why test something you KNOW is working?) and doubt creates negative vibes. These are resonance generators, if you mess with that the whole thing stops working. Which by the way proves it HAD been working.

Just wait until the village water pump is run for free by the QEG, although of course since that could be a "test" it will only run when people are not watching it, or using the water it pumps.

[morrand]

In any case, volt meters and scope traces aren't the tools to measure the thing. If they were honest (as if ), they'd have TWO watt-hour meters -- one on the input and one on the output -- to measure the POWER goiong in and coming out.

Energy. Watt-hours are a unit of energy, not power.

Which is why watt-hour meters would be just the thing to use. There is no such thing as the law of conservation of power, so it's relatively easy to set up a machine to draw 100 watts and produce 1000 watts, and OMG OVER UNITY, and leave off that it drew the 100 watts for ten times as long. (It's not all that hard to fake out energy meters, either, but at least they come closer.)

However, they won't ever do this because (1) the results will show that it actually CONSUMES power due to electrical and physical resistance and (2) the two meters would tell the machine it wasn't being trusted, thereby casting a pall of negative vibrations over it.

Heh. Not to mention the negative vibes it would cast across all the partiers to find out that they'd be closer to over-unity just plugging the light bulbs into the wall.

One of my co-workers pointed out that, given their location, if they wanted to provide free(ish) power for a well pump, a solar panel would have been a better idea to start with. A little less spiritual, perhaps, although that's probably just a marketing issue.

[LaVidaRoja]

Marketing? Just make it a cult of modern-day sun worshipers!

[Deep Knight]

As my old Guru, Baba Bebop, used to say, "Once you've achieved oneness with the universe, move onto twoness." This is no doubt what "over unity" means. And if that don't juice up their dim bulbs, nothin' will.

[LightinDarkness]

I am pretty sure its IMPOSSIBLE for "over-unity" to be real due to the laws of physics. The usage of volt meters to show inputs/outputs is intentionally deceiving, I can't remember why but I was reading a free energy debunking elsewhere and they were explaining why it doesn't actually show what you are looking for to determine if something is producing excess energy. Something about how it doesn't take into account resistance or something, which if it did, would show its using more energy than it generates.

They are using volt meters because its part of the technology cargo cult aspect of it, it fools most people.

[Deep Knight]

Most new multimeters are pretty good about accurately measuring "spiky" voltage and current, which is why older ones are so popular with the free energy set. After all the mumbo jumbo what you have is a crappy waveform that has much less power than represented, and can't power itself, much less give out free energy.

But, if I'm wrong, show me. And not a light bulb, but say a house for a week or two with inspectors assuring that there's no hanky panky. If this is real, this would have happened long ago, but it hasn't.

[AndyK]

Apologies to all for failing to post this in response to the question opening the thread:

1 - No
2 - Not now
3 - Never. no way. nohow.

One of the basic rules of physics is that "within a closed system, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only be transformed from one form to another." That includes the transformation of mass to energy and vice versa.

So, viewing the QEG as a closed system; IT CAN NOT WORK.

However, many of the free energy; zero point energy; ambient temperature; whatever hucksters rely on subtle sources of energy to open the allegedly closed system.

For example, years ago, someone was hyping an 'ambient temperature' generator which was supposed to produce electricity by sucking the heat out of room-temperature air. Surprisingly, it worked -- but only in the day time in a sunlight room.

As instrumentation technology has become more sophisticated, it has ecome much easier to confuse the gullible and the hopeful with allegedly significant readings on dials, meters, and so on. What they don't understand impresses the hell out of them.

Remember, never bet against P. T. Barnum.

[morrand]

The usage of volt meters to show inputs/outputs is intentionally deceiving, I can't remember why but I was reading a free energy debunking elsewhere and they were explaining why it doesn't actually show what you are looking for to determine if something is producing excess energy. Something about how it doesn't take into account resistance or something, which if it did, would show its using more energy than it generates.

They are using volt meters because its part of the technology cargo cult aspect of it, it fools most people.

Yes, plus volt- and ammeters are cheap, and widely available. For the record:

Many people learned in high school physics, or elsewhere, the relation P = IV, that electrical power is equal to the voltage times the current. Knowing that, it's very easy to take a voltmeter and an ammeter on the input, and a voltmeter and an ammeter on the output, and show some big change in the two, and suddenly, OMG! Free Energy!

But P = IV only strictly works for direct current. When you get into AC, two complications arise.

First, AC values transmit power with different efficiencies. (That's not accurate, but it's a quick approximation of the point.) For a given AC quantity, like a voltage or a current, there is something called its "rms" value, which is roughly its equivalent in DC terms. A simple sine wave, for example, has an rms value that is about 70.7% of its peak value. This is important because a lot of meters commonly available on the market assume that the rms value is 70.7% of peak, and that's not true for a lot of trashy waveforms like the ones you get off of home-built free energy machines. You can get true rms meters, and they're better at this, but still have their limitations. This ties into the comments above about spiky waveforms and so on.

Second, even once you're looking at rms and not peak values, when you are talking about AC, there are three kinds of power involved. Multiplying rms voltage by rms current gives you apparent power, measured in volt-amperes. All that's really good for, on its own, is heating up the wires. When you want to do useful work, you need to know the real power, which is:

P = V(rms) * I(rms) * cos ø

where ø stands for the phase angle between the voltage and the current: zero when they're in phase (that is, both flowing in the same direction at the same time), 180˚ when they're dead out of phase (flowing against one another at the same time), and so on. (The third kind of power is called "reactive power," and takes a sine rather than a cosine in the formula above. It's not useful for much except for magnetizing equipment cores and controlling power grid voltages.) V and I are easy to measure, but ø is not, and depends on a phase angle meter or (hey!) an oscilloscope.

So, supposing that we hook a circuit up, and it shows 120 volts and 1 amp on the input, and 130 volts and 1 amp on the output. So by simple math, 120 volts times 1 amp on the input is 120 W in; 130 volts times 1 amp on the output is 130 W out. Hey! free energy! Except it turns out that we've snuck in a capacitor on the circuit, and capacitors (for technical reasons that I won't explain here) draw current almost 90˚ out of phase with the voltage. So if you actually measure the phase angles, and do the math:

P input = 120 V * 1 A * cos (-85˚) = 10.5 watts, and
P output = 130 V * 1 A * cos (-89.9˚) = 0.22 watts.

Oops. No free energy. In fact, we're losing almost all of the power going into the circuit. But, just looking at the voltage and current, you'd never know it. And that's really why you can't trust people throwing multimeters around to prove these things are producing free energy. I mean, aside from that violating the fundamental laws of the universe as we understand them.

---
A correction, while I'm at it. I said above that the QEG waveforms showed an output of 950 watts. This was incorrect: their oscilloscope showed a value of 1900 V peak-to-peak, and I failed to divide this by two (to get peak voltage) in converting to rms. Their measured output is much more like 475 VA (vs. 655 W input), and perhaps even less depending on how they measured their output current. Evidently I finished EE 105 a little too long ago to remember the relation correctly without checking references, and I apologize for the error.

[AndyK]

Off-topic posts and related responses have been moved to "Daily Planet's Personal Thread"

Any future related posts belong there.

Any posted here are candidates for deletion.

AndyK

[wserra]

Evidently I finished EE 105 a little too long ago

I guarantee my E&M study (Halliday & Resnick, anyone?) occurred longer ago than yours, but still you provided a concise but understandable explanation of the basic scam.

Thanks.

[LightinDarkness]

Thanks morrand for providing your explanation, I have 0 background (last time I had a science course was my freshmen year in college, and it was biology) in this! I knew "free energy" is impossible due to science, but you explain exactly why that is. I am SURE Daily Planet will respond in kind and provide a detailed explanation of how free energy could be scientifically possible.

[thunter]

"We have achieved Over Unity - this means Free Energy. I have seen it with my eyes. I have felt it with my hands. I have witnessed it start to finish. It is True, it is Done and it is NOW. Nicola Tesla's Dynamo Electric Machine designed in 1888 modified into the Quantum Energy Generator - QEG by Jamie Robitai is running at five times Over Unity."

http://briankellysblog.blogspot.com

[LightinDarkness]

I wonder how far the free energy scammers are going to drag them along into hooking this up into tall their dream projects until mysterious problems start popping up? Right now they are just using cargo cult technology to convince them that its over-unity, if they ever tried to put it into use it will obviously not work. FOr example, if they were to actually try this with their proposed "free energy water pump" for the village it would be a miserable failure. And Hope Girl & Co. have to know that they will need to be out of there by the time the OPPT crew makes lavish promises to the village and then fails to deliver.

Of course, it looks like even though anyone with a free energy machine would be a instant billionaire (if it actually worked), everyone is STILL begging for money...and they are careful to say they have no idea how long it will take to "spread" this "technology" (a time frame known as never):

No one knows how long it will take to spread this technology, this depends on All of us. True world collaboration is already well in progress. This technology is coming out in pockets all over the world, simultaneously. The prototype that just became live and is already been improved on by incredibly talented engineers around the world.

When I met Hope Girl last October in Sarasota, FL, I knew that I would be working with her and Fix The World to help release this amazing technology, now it has happened and we will be continuing the project by creating a CICU - Cottage Industry Community Unit for others to begin building QEGs here. I have committed to help Fix the World in any capacity that I can and have been invited to the next build site, if you would like to help me with travel expenses, it would be greatly appreciated through Paypal: [e-mail address removed @yahoo.com. Thank you!

[JamesVincent]

.....running at five times Over Unity....

Is that anything like Moons over my Hammy?

Seriously, the whole "free energy" phrase irritates me. There is no such thing as free energy, it all costs something. Solar panels are great alternative energy sources in an area with a lot of sunlight, costs money to buy, install, make, service, clean, etc etc. Even if someone could develop a device that gives out more energy then it takes in (a physical impossibility as noted before) it would still cost money for materials, manufacture, labor, etc etc.

[Jeffrey]

Yo, XXXX out the paypal address. Some idiot may stumble across this thread and give that bastard money.