UK - Tom Crawford Calls For Help

[rumpelstilzchen]

Hi, letissier 14. Welcome to Quatloos.
What is your opinion? Has Tom won or has Tom lost?

[letissier14]

Welcome .....

Thank you

[letissier14]

Hi, letissier 14. Welcome to Quatloos.
What is your opinion? Has Tom won or has Tom lost?

Thank you.

In my opinion I think Tom has lost - I would like to think he hasn't and he manages to keep his house, but I think the judges decision was pretty clear for all to see.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Hi, letissier 14. Welcome to Quatloos.
What is your opinion? Has Tom won or has Tom lost?

Thank you.

In my opinion I think Tom has lost - I would to think he hasn't and he manages to keep his house, but I think the judges decision was pretty clear for all to see.

I agree. Why do you think it is the likes of Ceylon & Co are unable, or maybe unwilling, to see that?

[letissier14]

I've no idea to be honest, other than it is an "us versus them" attitude.

I've spoken to someone who has seen the whole judgment and they believe Tom has lost too.

Trouble is emotions are running quite high around the whole subject, which will lead to nothing but trouble in my opinion.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Is that the reason, in your opinion, why Tom has not posted the whole of the judgment on t'internet? It doesn't make good reading for Tom?

[wanglepin]

heeeeere's eddy. yes he's back. I thought he was banned after asking sallie her position on tom verdict. You may remember she was "very happy as long as guy and tom were".
by Wooden head » Sat May 16, 2015 10:52 am

Wooden head wrote:
bertiebert wrote:
2 - Why is no one crowdfunding it - to pay the bill


Why would Tom need crowed funding? Wouldn’t Tom be better off to use a WeRe cheque, bertiebert?
And besides, haven`t those in the know like yourself told us he won and would be keeping his house.


bertiebert wrote:
first of all it wasn't me that suggested it, it was a Quote from Danny Bamping,,

but you are qualified to answer the question.,So why would Tom need crowdfunding? Wouldn’t Tom be better off to use a WeRe cheque, bertiebert?

bertiebert wrote:
second of all Tom is keeping HIS house, the fact that the criminals might try again still doesn't alter the fact its HIS house !

Ok. so how does crowdfunding play any part in the event that this happens, keeping in mind that he has won and will be keeping his home? I'm sure some people would like to know what this crowdfunding will be paying for, who benefits and who gets any profit? That is what crowdfunding is bertiebert, .

[vampireLOREN]

I've no idea to be honest, other than it is an "us versus them" attitude.

I've spoken to someone who has seen the whole judgment and they believe Tom has lost too.

Trouble is emotions are running quite high around the whole subject, which will lead to nothing but trouble in my opinion.

To be frank, the constant pushing and acceptance of the nonsensical Logic of Mr Ebert is both dangerous and very sad. It is plain that for some reason the Crawford's have been turned over by those they think are supporters.

[letissier14]

I've no idea why Tom hasn't published the whole document to be honest. Tom seems to be a really nice guy and putting his trust in other people, maybe that's the reason?

I am getting a copy tomorrow or Monday, so I may be able to comment a bit more after reading it.

[Hercule Parrot]

Yes I was a MOD on GOODF

Hi letissier, you're very welcome here. There are a few people who participate in both messageboards, sometimes using different names to avoid aggravation. Always interesting and useful to see the situation from another perspective.

I also think that TC has lost, and I think the bank will probably move quite quickly to end this now. The authorities won't want a prolonged mob situation, so they'll plan something decisive involving plenty of cops. TC won't understand what's happening until he's on the street with a suitcase.

I think this is a tragedy. If he had taken proper advice, he could have negotiated a deal to keep his home or downsize into something affordable. But he made it into an all-or-nothing confrontation, encouraged by certain people.

[letissier14]

Hi letissier, you're very welcome here. There are a few people who participate in both messageboards, sometimes using different names to avoid aggravation. Always interesting and useful to see the situation from another perspective.

I also think that TC has lost, and I think the bank will probably move quite quickly to end this now. The authorities won't want a prolonged mob situation, so they'll plan something decisive involving plenty of cops. TC won't understand what's happening until he's on the street with a suitcase.

I think this is a tragedy. If he had taken proper advice, he could have negotiated a deal to keep his home or downsize into something affordable. But he made it into an all-or-nothing confrontation, encouraged by certain people.

Thanks

Someone told me that they think there are two possibilities

1) The Bank will go and take the house back

or

2) They will negotiate with Tom and offer him a chance to pay because of the public support he has.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Is Tom willing to pay?

[letissier14]

Is Tom willing to pay?

I don't think so - I think his mind is made up that he will go down fighting.

Can totally understand his situation as he really does believe he has been wronged, but sometimes you need to cut your losses and see the bigger picture.

[wanglepin]

Hi, letissier 14. Welcome to Quatloos.
What is your opinion? Has Tom won or has Tom lost?

Thank you.

In my opinion I think Tom has lost - I would to think he hasn't and he manages to keep his house, but I think the judges decision was pretty clear for all to see.

I agree. Why do you think it is the likes of Ceylon & Co are unable, or maybe unwilling, to see that?

They see it alright. but they will never admit they were wrong, how can they.
Tom has been a kind of figurehead front man stooge for Ceylon and Taylor. They have both used Tom terribly. The look of Tom in his latest videos tells me he wants out of the fantasy nightmare, but he may feel obligated not leave it alone after all the support from “strangers.”. Which only leaves Tom to go along with claims of fraud, stamps seals, sealions and warrants. This will become nothing to do with Toms home once he is booted out and all about what Taylor, Gerrish, and Mark Haining Ceylon, Roger Hayes (where was he the other day?) are calling fraud. Tom was used and suckered by these animals while he was vulnerable and ill and at a time he may have stood a chance of saving the family home. But none of this will stop Mark Haining Ceylon et al swanning off abroad to exotic climes.

[exiledscouser]

Whilst I can't speak for all of the posters on this site, no-one can surely take pleasure in seeing a family lose their home.

What riles me in particular is that, properly advised Tom C could have resolved this issue some time ago, spared himself, his wife and their children much grief. Perhaps he still could if he swallowed his pride, divested himself of the Eberts and Celyons of this world and took some proper advice. I'm sure that the B&B would positively welcome some resolution that does not end in eviction.

Some view the antics of FOTL as an amusement and largely harmless and I must confess I do follow the various sites for just that reason. However when the bullshit is actually sold to and followed by the vulnerable and desparate we end up with train wrecks such as this; I passionately detest those persons responsible for egging TC on. Yes, some might say, he's an adult and free to make his own decisions but as has been said before on here and elsewhere, when TC is finally evicted the gaze of the Gurus and their followers will be on the next cause célèbre and he'll just be yesterdays chip wrappings. Not many of these Gurus appear to practice what they preach, preferring 'useful idiots' if I can use the phrase without a pejorative connotation.

Letissier, welcome and thank you for coming along and taking a personal risk as it would appear you are now a 'marked man/woman'.

The Quatloos crowd are being taken care of as we speak and will be soon blown to the 4 corners of the earth like dessicated mud!

You are right, this is a highly emotive subject, not least for TC who perhaps somewhat late in life is finding mistaken solace in being the centre of the attention these parasites are paying him.

Let's however hope saner councils prevail or this could turn ugly when HCEO's and a couple of van loads of plod turn up to bring this to an end.

[rumpelstilzchen]

Is Tom willing to pay?

I don't think so - I think his mind is made up that he will go down fighting.

Can totally understand his situation as he really does believe he has been wronged, but sometimes you need to cut your losses and see the bigger picture.

What are your thoughts on Tom's position regarding the original case? Tom did not pay the endowment policy and had nothing in place to pay off the final sum. Do you accept the B&B had every right to start proceedings? Is it not the case that it was actually the B&B that were wronged because Tom did not pay back what he originally agreed to?

[Hercule Parrot]

Tom seems to be a really nice guy and putting his trust in other people, maybe that's the reason?

I think that's the problem in a sentence. He's financially naive, and he panicked when he realised that he still owed a lot of money. If he had gone into CAB or a proper debt management service, they would've helped him to restructure the mortgage.

But somehow he got caught up with the exciting idea that he could deny the debt and keep the house. If the mortgage was a fraud, if the banking system was all bogus, if the UK really was governed by UCC and notarial affidavits, maybe he could say some magic words and be free.

Now he's gone so far down that path, surrounded himself with delusional advocates who are effectively directing his actions. He can't do anything without them watching over him, telling him how it ought to be done, telling him he will be a victorious hero. He's persuaded his family to believe, gambled all his equity on pointless delaying tactics. For the first time in his ordinary little life, crowds are chanting his name and slapping him on the back. It's intoxicating and enjoyable, but it also carries the implicit threat that this will all instantly cease if he doesn't play out his hero role to the full.

He's trapped in a tragic folly, like an Aztec virgin being prepared for sacrifice to the Sun God.

[ArthurWankspittle]

Is Tom willing to pay?

I don't think he has anything to pay with. I can't see a lender saying no worries we'll wait for your crowdfunding to come up with the money, when they can repossess and auction the place in a few months. Tom has to come up with £43k for the original capital amount plus interest and costs from the end of the mortgage and first court hearing onwards. B&B employed a barrister, have had a couple of failed attempts at possession etc. My guess is he owes in the £60k region by now.

Back to the timescales for collecting money. Yes it appears to be 6 years for a debt and 12 years for a secured debt. It in theory lasts until satisfied but after 6 years with a CCJ, you have to apply to court to seek permission to pursue the debt. I suspect that in a lot of cases the costs and risks of going to court mean it is not worth it. Combine this will the information falling off credit records after 6 years, the practical effect is that it is rarely worth chasing in most cases after 6 years and the debtor is no longer affected creditwise. £60k of mortgage default is another matter.

[wanglepin]

In my opinion I think Tom has lost - I would like to think he hasn't and he manages to keep his house, but I think the judges decision was pretty clear for all to see.

hello letissier14, welcome. Nice to hear the others sides perspective, it is refreshing.
Have you posted your feelings or opinion over on getoutofdebtfree at all? It seems anyone who appears to have doubts concerning Taylor and Eberts translation of the judges decision is shot down immediately or stop posting or banned✓ .

[letissier14]

What are your thoughts on Tom's position regarding the original case? Tom did not pay the endowment policy and had nothing in place to pay off the final sum. Do you accept the B&B had every right to start proceedings? Is it not the case that it was actually the B&B that were wronged because Tom did not pay back what he originally agreed to?

Again it is very hard to speculate on this without seeing the full facts in front of you.

Tom has said there was an endowment policy, but it was cashed in by the bank and not by him? I know when I had a mortgage I was paying one payment for the mortgage and one for the endowment. I believe Tom was only ever making one payment.

According to what I've been told, Tom stopped paying the mortgage near the end of the mortgage term, which resulted in arrears! I believe that the judge had stated that the B&B were entitled to start proceedings as there were arrears on the account.