Dr. Dino Thread

[Imalawman]

So, in an attempt to split the topic, something went wrong and it got really messed up. So, I just deleted it. It was grossly off-topic anyway. If anyone want to continue Dr. Dino discussions, start here. For questions concerning the existence of God - go to the misc. section of this forum.

[Unidyne]

According to what I can find, Kent "Dr. Dino" Hovind is still in Edgefield FCI (South Carolina) and is due out in 2015.

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderSe ... &x=73&y=18

BTW: He got his Master's Degree and Doctorate in Christian Education from Patriot Bible University, a fundamentalist Christian correspondence school (read: "degree mill") in Colorado.

At least he warranted a listing on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind

[Paths of the Sea]

As far as I can tell, the U.S. Tax Court has still not set Dr. Dino's pending Tax Court case for trial or the related case on his wife.

Both cases apparently involve a "whipsaw" proposal from the government; both sides be issued deficieny notices involving the same income. The parties and the Court, supposedly, will work out how much and who is going to be liable.

On a related matters, we are still waiting to find out more details as to what has become of Dr. Dino's efforts to have his son buy back the property that was taken to satisfy the criminal sanctions (not to be confused with the additional millions at stake in the Tax Court cases).

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[Paths of the Sea]

Dr. Dino's son, Eric, as he continues to move the organization in a new direction has set up new webpages and a new blog.

I made inquiry regarding the latest on the legal matters and, in part, got this reply from a representative (you might notice they posted a legal update today which I take to be in direct response to my asking about it):

> Currently, CSE has chosen to limit correspondence
> regarding the legal case to http://www.drdino.com/legal and
> e-mail, so as to not distract from the creation-
> gospel message on our Web site. I hope you will
> understand.

> At the current time, there are many unknown
> variables in the case that up-to-date facts are
> hard to come by. Unfortunately, this causes a
> delay in what can be published or announced.
> Please know that CSE strives for transparency
> in what it knows.

> God Quest, Inc. is an independent parachurch
> ministry, formed as a non-profit corporation in
> the state of Florida. Under the leadership of
> Eric Hovind, God Quest has acquired all operations
> of Creation Science Evangelism and continues to
> successfully operate it as a ministry.

The new website notes that they are now using an employee leasing company to meet employment tax liabilities and have a legitimate accounting firm otherwise handling their affairs.

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[grixit]

So God's appointed messengers backed down in the face of mere humn authority.

[Paths of the Sea]

Dr. Dino has an announced release date of 2015.

He'll be over 60 years old at that time.

One wonders if Dr. Dino will, at that time, attempt to take over Eric's "new and improved" CSE/God Quest ministries and return them to Dr. Dino's former, tax protesting glory.

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[grixit]

Turn them back into an oversized makeshift swingset?

[Paths of the Sea]

Sounds like 3 more motions for the Court to quickly deny, if not already denied, but at least Dr. Dino is finally having current messages posted to his blog:

See:

-------------------------------------

(Sounds like three more motions to be quickly denied by the Court.-RLBaty)

See:

------------------------------------

http://www.cseblogs.com

From: Kent Hovind
To: Jacob Miller
Sent: July 21, 2010
Posted: July 24, 2010

Subject: God Plans Ahead and Has a Sense of Humor!

Dear Jacob,

You were unwittingly an answer to prayer last night. It’s a crazy story of God’s providence and sense of humor. Let me explain.

Yesterday, July 20, at 8:00 a.m. my name was called on the prison loud speaker to come to the office—seldom a good thing!

I have three pro se motions into the court, any of which could set me free, and so I hoped it was the call to go home.

It wasn’t.

They said,

> “Pack your stuff. You are going next
> door to 'the hole'."

When I asked why, they said (in typical BOP Bureau of Prison fashion)

> “We can’t tell you.”

S-o-o-o-o-o I packed all my books, files and manuscripts and personal belongings into 2 duffel bags and was taken next door to the medium security prison to go to the SHU—Special Housing Unit—a.k.a.—the hole.

After spending nine hours in a holding cell with no bathroom, I was put in room 119 in the hole.

Knowing it could be weeks before I saw my property again, I asked seven guards for a Bible. None of them had one or would get me one. Throughout the long day in the holding cell I prayed several times for God to supply me a Bible to read while they s-l-o-o-o-o-w-l-y figure out what to do with me.

Apparently, I’m not in trouble, but am probably being moved. You never know for sure when you are in prison.

Knowing that I would not get my Bible for weeks, and that the BOP book cart would probably only have NIV’s or other modern translations which have thousands of problems (See Seminar 7), I prayed for God to specifically provide a King James Bible for me.

I had only been in the room about thirty minutes when they brought mail.

That is another miracle in itself, that mail came to the hole the first day!

In the mail for me were three books from you, Jacob. A Cruden’s Concordance (for which I was also praying, because I had loaned mine out at the prison camp and forgot to get it back in my haste to pack), a book about Free Masonry, and a 1611 Edition King James Bible! I was s-o-o-o-o-o happy God answered my prayer s-o-o-o-o-o fast! I opened it to read a passage I’d been thinking about all day, and quickly realized that this was really a 1611 KJV before English spelling was standardized in later editions. For example, the word “he” is spelled “hee” and “hie” in other various places, as well as lots of other ancient spellings.

I have always wanted to own and read the 1611 version, but it struck me as funny that God answered my prayer e-x-a-a-a-c-t-l-y as I had prayed!

I said,

> “Real funny, God! You gave me
> what I prayed for alright. I
> guess I should be more specific
> next time and ask for the
> standardized spelling too!”

God and I had a good laugh.

Then I realized that God had to have spoken to your heart weeks ago in order for those specific books to arrive right on time!

Thanks for the books and thanks for being sensitive to God’s voice.

The whole incident reminded me that He is working on a much bigger picture. I can sit back and relax and read the book I’ve wanted to read for years while I “wait on the Lord.”

The passage that had been on my heart all day reads like this in the Bible you sent. Pfalmes XLV 1:10 “Be stil, and know that I am God: I will bee exalted among the heathen. I will bee exalted in the earth.”

I don’t know how long I’ll be here (the man across the hall has been in the hole for over a year!) but as I stay in this cell twenty-three hours a day; comb my hair with a plastic “spork”; write with a 4″ rubber pen; and eat some cold french fries for supper; I’ll be continually reminded of God’s wisdom and providence as I read the books you sent.

Thank you, Jacob!

In Christ,
Kent Hovind

P.S. The Web Site http://www.bop.gov/inmate_locator/index.jsp will list my location and address for those who wish to write. Mail really helps when you are in prison, but I may be slow to respond for now as there is very limited paper, envelopes, and stamps when you are in the hole. And no, those cannot be sent to me. I must buy them through the prison system. I’ll answer mail when I can.

--------------------------------
--------------------------------

[grixit]

Oh yeah, i forgot that Hovind was also a KJV freak. with the usual concerns about "modern" translations. Strange how few of the people who claim they stand by the 1611 edition ever actually look at it. Because the 1611 KJV, unlike the later editions, contains the Apocrypha, which fundamentalists regard as not only uncanonical, but downright suspect, since the Roman Catholic Church favors it.

[darling]

> God Quest, Inc. is an independent parachurch
> ministry, formed as a non-profit corporation in
> the state of Florida. Under the leadership of
> Eric Hovind, God Quest has acquired all operations
> of Creation Science Evangelism and continues to
> successfully operate it as a ministry.

So donations to CSE are really donations to God Quest, which is formed as a FL non-profit (or a Florida not-for-profit - I'm not sure there's a distinction, but God Quest uses it both ways.)

From the CSE donation page:
"Your gift is tax deductible to the full extent of the law."

But, as far as I can tell, neither CSE or God Quest are 501(c)(3) organizations. So, FL status notwithstanding, "the full extent of the law" is that your gift is not tax deductible.

[Paths of the Sea]

I noticed that ambiguity about the organizations and tax-deductible donations.

I was wondering if either one of them claimed to be a "church" exempt from reporting requirements.

I sent a note to the high-powered CPA's now apparently handling their accounting matters, but got not reply to my inquiry.

Also, since Eric was officially ordained not that long ago, I was wondering if that was, in part, so he could take out his money as income tax free housing and also sign up to be exempt from Social Security taxes.

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[Paths of the Sea]

The Government filed a Rule 37-c motion on July 23, 2010.

Notice of the motion was filed today.

Rule 37-c:

(c) Effect of Reply or Failure Thereof: Where a
reply is filed, every affirmative allegation set out in the answer
and not expressly admitted or denied in the reply shall
be deemed to be admitted. Where a reply is not filed, the affirmative
allegations in the answer will be deemed denied
unless the Commissioner, within 45 days after expiration of
the time for filing the reply, files a motion that specified allegations
in the answer be deemed admitted. That motion may
be granted unless the required reply is filed within the time
directed by the Court.

-------------------------
-------------------------

Any comments on the significance of that motion might be?

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[Gregg]

Some one please tell me again why churches income is tax exempt again?

So Joyce Meyer can build another $5 million home with solid gold toilets? (Yes she does!)
And I'd point out that she, even though she has an honorary Doctorate and all her books are by "Dr Joyce Meyers, has no formal education in religion at all.

Maybe Joel Olsteen needs another jet with an interior upgrade that cost $400,000 over and above the cost of a G-V cause the seats in the regular leather were just drab?
(Dunno if he has a phony Dr or not, he does have a BA in communiation from Oral Roberts University, a bastion of higher education and divine extortion rackets)

Oh, know, so Creflo Dollar (is that a great Evangelical porn name or what) needs another Rolls Royce?

So Oral's son and daughter in law can pay students to do their own kids work while they run around on each other and the whole damn family is back and forth the the French Riviera as often as I go to see Xavier Basketball games, all on another G-V. (about $35K one way from Oklahoma)

Side theory, maybe the church exemption is a subsidy for luxury aircraft makers?

ahhh, sorry, just had a little rant there...

Your local church is one thing, this stuff is another.....so maybe limit it to maybe a million bucks or something......

[Paths of the Sea]

One small step at a time!

For now, the FFRF is prosecuting its case to have IRC 107 (income tax free ministerial housing allowance) declared unconstitutional.

Well, actually, that would be a giant step!

So far, the case hasn't got much broad-based media attention.

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!

[Gregg]

Can we at least start with a 300% excise tax on Luxury Jets bought with money raised by 501(3)(C) corporations?

[LPC]

So donations to CSE are really donations to God Quest, which is formed as a FL non-profit (or a Florida not-for-profit - I'm not sure there's a distinction, but God Quest uses it both ways.)

From the CSE donation page:
"Your gift is tax deductible to the full extent of the law."

But, as far as I can tell, neither CSE or God Quest are 501(c)(3) organizations. So, FL status notwithstanding, "the full extent of the law" is that your gift is not tax deductible.

Neither CSE or God Quest are listed in the on-line searchable version of IRS Publication 78.

[jg]

From http://ccfcorp.dos.state.fl.us/corinam.html

Florida Non Profit Corporation
GOD QUEST, INC.
Filing Information
Document Number N07000007273
FEI/EIN Number 260479444
Date Filed 07/23/2007
State FL
Status ACTIVE

Articles of Incorporation and Annual Report images are availble from the detail after search at the above link.

The Articles of Incorporation state it was " organized exclusively for charitable, religious, scientific and educational purposes within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986(..) including but not limited to, for such purposes, teaching in churches, schools, universities, and other forums about the creation's Creator by using the sciences; providing creation materials to strengthen faith in the word of God and to bring the lost to Christ; and to engage in any other activity not prohibited... "

Apparently not a church, from that expression of purpose.

[darling]

Apparently not a church, from that expression of purpose.

So, even if GQ/CSE is organized for purposes within the meaning of section 501(c)(3), without applying for that status, they don't get to be a non-profit.

Kent Hovind has a history of refusing tax exempt status - essentially he argues that being a 501(c)(3) organization is an invitation for government to control his 'church'. Which is all well and good, if GQ/CSE wants to be a for-profit, they can be a for-profit. (Although, given Kent's incarceration, I suppose they could be a non-prophet.)

However, they are inviting charitable contributions by using language which, while not strictly wrong, certainly gives the false impression that donations will be deductible. I believe there might be a commandment against that.

[Edit: I believe this is similar to Kent's line of reasoning:
http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm]

[LPC]

Apparently not a church, from that expression of purpose.

So, even if GQ/CSE is organized for purposes within the meaning of section 501(c)(3), without applying for that status, they don't get to be a non-profit.

Churches are exempt from the requirement of applying for exempt status. See IRC 508(c)(1).

The word "church" is not defined by the IRC or any regulations, and courts have often struggled with the meaning of the word in various provisions of the IRC, but I think it is most often interpreted to mean an organized group of believers who meet regularly for worship. So a religious educational organization is not a "church" if all it does is teach, but does not have a congregation that regularly meets to worship.

For a relatively recent decision reviewing the relevant law, and denying a charitable organization "church" status because its meetings for worship were "incidental," see Foundation of Human Understanding v. United States, No. 1:04-cv-01441 (Ct.Cl. 7/21/2009).

[Paths of the Sea]

Dan,

I figure there are still some shenanigans going on with the CSE/God Quest organizations and that, despite claims otherwise, Eric Hovind is not providing "transparency" regarding the goings on.

Consider the following:

http://www.drdino.com/about-cse/at-a-glance/

> God Quest, Inc. and CSE are represented
> by Brown Thorton Pacenta & Company, P.A.,
> a Pensacola, Florida-based certified public
> accountants firm.

> http://www.btpcpas.com/firmprofile.html

I wrote to them for information and didn't get a reply.

Someone else might try making inquiry to the firm or directly to CSE/God Quest.

If CSE/God Quest claims to be able to receive tax-deductible charitable contributions, on what basis.

If not, why not?

Where's the "church" in all of this?

Did Eric get his ordination so that he could speak at all those "churches" and take his money from them, personally as opposed to the CSE/God Quest organizations receiving the money, as income tax exempt housing and did Eric also file for exemption from Social Security so he could get all, or almost all, of his income tax free?

Such an arrangement, from my perspective and experience, would not be that unusual for a traveling preacher with a back-up organization.

Sincerely,
Maury enthusiast!