Deceptive IRS spoof on NFTL

[David Merrill]

One suitor's broker was considering sending a good amount of funds to the IRS agent pestering him about a federal tax lien. I advised the suitor to tell the broker to be sure that he had a confirmation of the Notice of Federal Tax Lien in hand before diverting the funds. He did.

The IRS agent faxed over the confirmation and it was actually the Release of Lien. It said in the explanation:

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

The typical verbiage on a federal tax lien in the form of a NFTL is:

IMPORTANT RELEASE INFORMATION: For each assessment listed below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date given in column (e), this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

I read it three times to digest it properly and handed it back to the suitor saying, "This is the Release of Lien."

Ain't life wonderful?





Regards,

David Merrill.

[The Observer]

For the correct answer, we can link here:

http://quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?p=10441#10441

I read it three times to digest it properly and handed it back to the suitor saying, "This is the Release of Lien."

You should have read it more than three times then - because you got it wrong. Hopefully, the suitor didn't suffer too much embarassment when he or she tried to pass that Notice of Lien off as a release and got laughed out of the bank or broker or employer's office.

[David Merrill]

I think it easier to let you explain your own dishonesty:

I guess you are simply not paying attention.

No, you are not paying attention. You are just standing there with your fingers in your ears and screaming.

If you think you are such a smarty pants, grab any standard NFTL and then quote exactly what the wording is.

No need. There is nothing misquoted - what we differ over is how you are interpreting the meaning of the wording.

This fax was a spoof of that verbiage that as you just admitted is a Release of Lien.

I admitted nothing of the sort. This is why people keep accusing you of being delusional. I said that it was NOT a Release of Lien and that is what I am saying now.

There it is. Now do a careful comparison to the verbiage on a Notice of Federal Tax Lien. You just can't seem to tolerate the truth.

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

IMPORTANT RELEASE INFORMATION: For each assessment listed below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date given in column (e), this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Thank you for quoting both sections together. It completes the picture. The readers will realize that the bolded section is the condition that I was mentioning earlier. It clearly states the the notice of tax lien will operate as a release on the date in column (e) for each period. So, for the facsimile, that means the lien releases on 11/22/2010 - and not anytime earlier.

You, however just want to focus on one word - "release" - and make it so. That is intellectually dishonest, David. If you insist on refusing to deal with the context of the issue, you are just setting yourself up for failure.

Please keep up your blurting, David. There is nothing I appreciate more than when someone actually proves me right.

You are a very peculiar debater Observer. And I find it rather odd that a document that clearly states it constitutes a Release of Lien can be construed otherwise by you - and then you call me intellectually dishonest.

It is actually evidence of a very deceptive fraud - the document that was faxed to the broker by the IRS agent. Which is something LPC seems a little confused about:

Responding to a lot of tax protester arguments is like shooting fish in a barrel, except that the fish are already dead.

It is not a Tax Protester argument. It is a fax sent from an IRS agent to a broker who was considering diverting funds on an alleged tax lien. By the way, the IRS agent was fired as this transpired.

But your intellectual dishonesty occurs in your post when you thanked me for posting the verbiage of the other part. That is not the other part. There is no other part. Look at the fax. There is no part that says what you say.

You are dishonest and if you think you have been proven right, fine. You can shut up. You will not shut up though - I figure you will start attacking the fax like I doctored it up to say what it says. It is a release of tax lien:

...this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

The fax does not say what you are trying, through sophistry and distortion, to say it says:

...this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

The Reader should specially note that to cover the agent's bogus tax lien - to be sure any black robed attorney in tax court or whatever would not accuse him of being unclear this fax was a Release of Lien, he changed operates as to constitutes. This is no typo. It is fraudulent misdirection.

The real joke is that you follow that misdirection by insulting my honesty. Thanks, The Observer; I get it. I am laughing at it. Very funny!



Regards,

David Merrill.

[Brian Rookard]

David's inability to read is on full display.

Notices of Federal Tax Liens are good for a set number of years (10, if I remember correctly).

However, if a new NFTL is filed before the expiration date, the lien can be extended for another 10 years.

As the paragraph David loves to quote indicates, if a new NFTL is not refiled on or before the expiration date of the current NFTL, then the current NFTL operates as a release of the lien.

But the release does NOT occur until the expiration date (which the lien indicates is listed in column "e").

As David even quoted ...

IMPORTANT RELEASE INFORMATION: For each assessment listed below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date given in column (e), this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Thus, to know when the lien expires, and is released, one must look to the date of expiration. And what David has not indicated is when the date of expiration is ... for it is on the day after that date that the lien will be released.

But David isn't one for logic, sense, or honesty.

RIF - Reading Is Fundamental

[David Merrill]

David's inability to read is on full display.

Notices of Federal Tax Liens are good for a set number of years (10, if I remember correctly).

However, if a new NFTL is filed before the expiration date, the lien can be extended for another 10 years.

As the paragraph David loves to quote indicates, if a new NFTL is not refiled on or before the expiration date of the current NFTL, then the current NFTL operates as a release of the lien.

But the release does NOT occur until the expiration date (which the lien indicates is listed in column "e").

As David even quoted ...

IMPORTANT RELEASE INFORMATION: For each assessment listed below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date given in column (e), this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Thus, to know when the lien expires, and is released, one must look to the date of expiration. And what David has not indicated is when the date of expiration is ... for it is on the day after that date that the lien will be released.

But David isn't one for logic, sense, or honesty.

RIF - Reading Is Fundamental

Brian too juxtapositioned a typical NFTL with the fax to the broker. Good for you Brian - collusion. The wording on the fax states that the document constitutes a release of lien.

The denial is quite refreshing! Thank you Brian.

Honesty? All the Reader has to do is read and compare:

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Regards,

David Merrill.

[.]

Regardless of whether one is talking about standard NFTL language or Van Pelt's fax, simple English is obviously not something which Van Pelt understands, he's delusional about both, which are really one and the same.

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Here's your problem, Van Pelt.

To find out whether the "unless" thing is operative, you have to wait and see if they refile it by the date in column (e).

If they do, then the lien hasn't been released. For yet another 10 years or whatever other shorter date they might specify in column (e). The refiled date in column (e) could be affected by any tolling agreement the taxpayer has signed or might sign after the initial lien filing.

In any case, the lien can't possibly be released until either the date in column (e) has been passed without a refiling or an actual lien release is filed. A release of lien form looks nothing like any lien-filing form you keep quoting. Even you would probably be able to tell the difference if you weren't so totally delusional.

[wserra]

It's about time someone posted Van Pelt's actual document so that the world can see just how dumb this is. We'll even assume that it's genuine (although, with the identifying information redacted, there is no way to know for sure).



The part that someone has marked "Read Carefully" (if "someone" is Van Pelt: Physician, heal thyself):

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Now, it seems perfectly clear that Van Pelt missed the day in first grade when the teacher explained the meaning of the word "unless". It's safe to say that, unless Van Pelt eats and drinks between now and then, he will be dead by Independence Day. Now, to poor David, this must mean that he should start preparing his will, because he isn't long for this world.

From dictionary.com:

"Unless" (conjunction): except under the circumstances that

Now read carefully, David: except under the circumstances that the IRS refiles by 11-22-10, this document is in fact both the NFTL and the proof of release. If the IRS does refile by then, it is only the former.

You should thank us (Observer, Brian, me), David. If not for us, Demo would at least strongly consider banning you. Not to mention that you would forever be doomed to a fog of illiteracy.

[wserra]

Oops. The Pirate Purveyor of the Last Word beat me to it. Add "." to the list of David's generous benefactors.

[Brian Rookard]

Normal Reader ...

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

David's Reading ...

With respect to each assessment below ... this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Which is the problem with most tax protestors ... they like to strike out clauses in sentences and ignore the qualifiers, conditions, etc.

David would take the following quote ...

"I know that you killed the Duke of Earl."

And read it as ...

"I ... killed the Duke of Earl."

RIF - Reading Is Fundamental.

[David Merrill]

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Here's your problem, Van Pelt.

To find out whether the "unless" thing is operative, you have to wait and see if they refile it by the date in column (e).

I guess you and Wesley Marc both have the same attorney-joke interpretation of English.



Thank you for posting the fax for all to read Wserra, but it should be viewed in conjunction with the banker's refusal to honor an IRS summons and the same style of State misdirection, the Payoff instead of a bill.



The way it reads is that until the broker is notified of a new NFTL then the notice in the fax constitutes a release of lien on the current NFTL. It spoofs the federal tax lien but gets around that by saying it is a FACSIMILE FEDERAL TAX LIEN DOCUMENT. - A release of lien.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[.]

Add "." to the list of David's generous benefactors.

Well, thanks, "Wesley Marc," (as the delusional one seems wont to refer to you, incessantly.)

I'm just a non-lawyer, non-CPA bystander who enjoys poking fun at major failures to comprehend simple English, not to mention the insanity of our local thread-pest and attention-whore.

Unfortunately, many may tell Van Pelt that he's totally nuts without effect. Witness his current attempts to embarrass himself even more obscenely than he often has in the past.

[Famspear]

In reading David’s posts, I am sadly reminded of certain excerpts from an old song called “Lather,” performed by Jefferson Airplane, from the 1968 album “Crown of Creation”:

----“Lather was thirty years old today,
They took away all of his toys.
His mother sent newspaper clippings to him,
About his old friends who'd stopped being boys [ . . . ]

“----But Lather still finds it a nice thing to do,
To lie about nude in the sand,
Drawing pictures of mountains that look like bumps,
And thrashing the air with his hands.

“----Lather was thirty years old today,
And Lather came foam from his tongue.
He looked at me eyes wide and plainly said,
Is it true that I'm no longer young?
And the children call him famous,
what the old men call insane,
And sometimes he's so nameless,
That he hardly knows which game to play
Which words to say...”

--from "Lather," lyric and music by Grace Slick; Copyright by Mole Music Co., BMI (excerpted under the Fair Use Doctrine).

--Famspear

[David Merrill]

You can see by simply reading it, it says:

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Unless means that the latter clause will hold true - unless - unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e).

So I figure you guys are just messing around. And I admit, it is pretty fun to watch you all - especially Wesley Marc (Wserra), a trained attorney making feeble attempts to distort a simple sentence.


Regards,

David Merrill.

[.]

Unless means that the latter clause will hold true - unless - unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e).

No, it means that the lien is in full force and effect until the date specified in column (e) and when that date is reached it may remain in full force and effect if the lien is refiled.

If you don't believe me and many others on this point, feel free to pursue it in court. Enjoy your sanctions and ignominious defeat.

Other than the fact that you are delusional, why is this simple stuff so hard to understand?

Well, then again, considering the fact that you are totally delusional, I guess that I shouldn't expect a coherent answer, so never mind.

[.]

With no need of a response from the totally delusional Van Pelt (since no meaningful response is possible) I also point out that Van Pelt intentionally confuses the usage of "unless" with "except."

Unless means that the latter clause will hold true - unless - unless notice of lien is refiled

When a sane person reads and interprets Van Pelt's warped restatement of the NFTL wording, the result is "Unless means that the latter clause will hold true - except if the notice of lien is refiled." Which is what matters and how any court presented with the matter would rule.

Of course, when Van Pelt reads it, the result is the usual Van Peltian gibberish. It's magic!

[David Merrill]

I understand why you are so upset about it ".".

Let's just say it so a third-grader can see I am correct:

Unless you clean your room, you will not be going out with your friends to play.

The dependent clause stands upon a stipulation.

Therefore, the fax is a release of lien, it constitutes a release of lien unless and until something else happens - specifically a refiling of the NFTL.

Anybody who knows about NFTLs can see the IRS agent removed the condition that you keep saying the release says is in effect.

...on the day following such date,

Since all one has to do is look and read, you insist that being so infantile is not embarrassing to you. Since nobody knows who you are and everybody knows your real name is not ".", I guess that is easily explained. You are only embarrassing an Internet dot.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[.]

Gee, Davey, I'm not upset, but you certainly seem to be.

Why do you persist in trying to maintain laughable positions when they've been disproved six ways from Sunday?

[David Merrill]

Gee, Davey, I'm not upset, but you certainly seem to be.

Why do you persist in trying to maintain laughable positions when they've been disproved six ways from Sunday?

You should be embarrassed; saying that:

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

means the same thing as:

IMPORTANT RELEASE INFORMATION: For each assessment listed below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date given in column (e), this notice shall, on the day following such date, operate as a certificate of release as defined in IRC 6325(a).

But then again, you seem dissociated from reality. You made a comment that made it seem that you think this is theory, instead of an actual event.



Regards,

David Merrill.

[David Merrill]

It's about time someone posted Van Pelt's actual document so that the world can see just how dumb this is. We'll even assume that it's genuine (although, with the identifying information redacted, there is no way to know for sure).



The part that someone has marked "Read Carefully" (if "someone" is Van Pelt: Physician, heal thyself):

With respect to each assessment below, unless notice of lien is refiled by the date in column (e), this notice shall constitute the certificate of release of lien as defined in IRC 6325(a).

Now, it seems perfectly clear that Van Pelt missed the day in first grade when the teacher explained the meaning of the word "unless". It's safe to say that, unless Van Pelt eats and drinks between now and then, he will be dead by Independence Day. Now, to poor David, this must mean that he should start preparing his will, because he isn't long for this world.

From dictionary.com:

"Unless" (conjunction): except under the circumstances that

Now read carefully, David: except under the circumstances that the IRS refiles by 11-22-10, this document is in fact both the NFTL and the proof of release. If the IRS does refile by then, it is only the former.

You should thank us (Observer, Brian, me), David. If not for us, Demo would at least strongly consider banning you. Not to mention that you would forever be doomed to a fog of illiteracy.

The only thing that makes sense about your post is that you separated the document from its State counterpart - the Payoff.

Unless means the exact opposite of what you say. In the faxed release the dependent clause is a positive assertion and in your example you speak in a negative. That changes things.

I understand you are upset about it though. I would have pulled this out years ago if I had known it would be so revealing about the Quatloser psychological profile.




Regards,

David Merrill.

[The Observer]

Oh, boy. Now David is trying to tell us that the facsimile means nothing without the "state payoff" link. Guess he is going to be explaining to us how state governments can order federal tax liens to be released based on their own payoff figures.